All Things Gopher Players Appeals Process

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dpodoll68 said:
I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the "appropriateness" of it, it'd be on the grounds of obstructing an investigation, aka lying, which would obviously be in violation of any student code.
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Just asking a question here. Can't you refuse to self incriminate(Plea the 5th(amendment))?
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Two possibilities. Either Winfield is using a different strategy than the other players, or it's a question of money. I think Winfield Senior probably has a few bucks stashed away from his NFL career, so he may be in a better position to afford outside counsel.
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What is the impact PJ Fleck's visit with the Winfields? It could very well mean Winfield Jr. may be back in uniform. The questions is how long the suspension will be. Also, I don't know if there is a possibility of a lawsuit involved.
 

STPGopher said:
Just asking a question here. Can't you refuse to self incriminate(Plea the 5th(amendment))?
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Not sure - since it's not a legal proceeding, I'm not sure what applies and what doesn't. I'll defer to attorneys who post here.
 


MNfootballfan said:
It is good to know that if Winfield is planning on appealing it is safe to assume that he is staying at the U. There is no other reason to appeal if you were headed to another school.
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My understanding is that all the players appealed. I agree that the chance to clear their names is the most likely reason. Thinking it would be much harder to go play somewhere else with this on their academic records.
 


dpodoll68 said:
Not sure - since it's not a legal proceeding, I'm not sure what applies and what doesn't. I'll defer to attorneys who post here.
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It's not a legal proceeding. You could certainly choose not to answer a question. ...and the U could certainly choose to impose a punishment for refusing to answer the question.

Just like if your employer asked you if you stole the box of pens from the office supply closet. They can't 'force' you to answer, they can also fire you for refusing to answer.

As has been stated repeatedly, the question isn't whether these proceedings are subject to the same rigor as a criminal law proceeding. They most assuredly are NOT. The question is that in circumstances as serious as these, SHOULD they be?

If we are to the point where the proceedings are relying on picking pictures out of a lineup (as suggested above), I think that's strong evidence they SHOULD be more rigorous in terms of due process. Lineup picks are notoriously inaccurate and many wrongful convictions have been based on them (in courtrooms with trained judges, professional defense lawyers, and a high burden of proof). If that's true it actually may be one of the most disturbing things I've heard about this case.
 

tato2001 said:
It's not a legal proceeding. You could certainly choose not to answer a question. ...and the U could certainly choose to impose a punishment for refusing to answer the question.

Just like if your employer asked you if you stole the box of pens from the office supply closet. They can't 'force' you to answer, they can also fire you for refusing to answer.

As has been stated repeatedly, the question isn't whether these proceedings are subject to the same rigor as a criminal law proceeding. They most assuredly are NOT. The question is that in circumstances as serious as these, SHOULD they be?

If we are to the point where the proceedings are relying on picking pictures out of a lineup (as suggested above), I think that's strong evidence they SHOULD be more rigorous in terms of due process. Lineup picks are notoriously inaccurate and many wrongful convictions have been based on them (in courtrooms with trained judges, professional defense lawyers, and a high burden of proof). If that's true it actually may be one of the most disturbing things I've heard about this case.
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Good post. Remember, I believe the accuser also mis-identified a player when she asked for and initially got the ROs.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Sure, but I still think it's interesting that Winfield would choose to go in a different direction than everyone else.
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I wonder if this has anything to do with the leaked report, which seems to have come from one of the players. If Hutton was aware of that and didn't stop it, I would question Hutton's acumen.
 

BarnBoy said:
This is about the student conduct code, not legal innocence or guilt.

I'm not speculating on any of the players' involvement or opining on what punishments could be. But, wasn't it reported or rumored that some are facing suspension for lying to school administrators, taking part in text message streams, etc?
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The leaked report outlines the violations by accused, and yes, many had subdivision 3 (falsification) cited, along with the more vague catch-all subdivision 19 (violation of university rules) cited.
 

MNfootballfan said:
It is good to know that if Winfield is planning on appealing it is safe to assume that he is staying at the U. There is no other reason to appeal if you were headed to another school.
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I think clearing your name would be even more importtant than staying or leaving. Having this follow you around for years could be devastating career wise, college wise,eveything you do requires a background test today.


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PMWinSTP said:
The leaked report outlines the violations by accused, and yes, many had subdivision 3 (falsification) cited, along with the more vague catch-all subdivision 19 (violation of university rules) cited.
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Exactly. This is why the guys who weren't in the apartment are involved.
 



Ski U Master said:
Exactly. This is why the guys who weren't in the apartment are involved.
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With the low preponderance threshold, that's a pretty easy conclusion to arrive at...unfortunately for those players.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Good post. Remember, I believe the accuser also mis-identified a player when she asked for and initially got the ROs.
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Yes, Kiondre Thomas was briefly added to the list of suspended players. The alleged victim wrote some names down when she got home, one being Kion or Kon "or something". Likely Hardin, but the fact that they briefly through Thomas in potentially points to an extremely low bar being used.
 

These guys pretty much have to go through this process and defend themselves. No school will take them unless they can fight and win in this process.

It is a simple fact that if these suspensions and expulsions stand, these guys will not play football again and more importantly will not be able to attend just about 4 year institution. Watch the 30 for 30 from a few years back. The football player who was expelled under very similar circumstances from Colorado School of Mines said that despite high academics he had been rejected by every school he applied to. And he said it numbered in the hundreds.

Maybe it is deserved, but these hearings aren't to determine whether they stay at the U, but whether they will attend college at all.
 

WoodburyTim said:
These guys pretty much have to go through this process and defend themselves. No school will take them unless they can fight and win in this process.

It is a simple fact that if these suspensions and expulsions stand, these guys will not play football again and more importantly will not be able to attend just about 4 year institution. Watch the 30 for 30 from a few years back. The football player who was expelled under very similar circumstances from Colorado School of Mines said that despite high academics he had been rejected by every school he applied to. And he said it numbered in the hundreds.

Maybe it is deserved, but these hearings aren't to determine whether they stay at the U, but whether they will attend college at all.
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That definitely is the reality of the situation. Many have posted that some are making too much about this...saying the outcome is not that big of a deal (loss of scholarship and not playing college football).
 

WoodburyTim said:
These guys pretty much have to go through this process and defend themselves. No school will take them unless they can fight and win in this process.

It is a simple fact that if these suspensions and expulsions stand, these guys will not play football again and more importantly will not be able to attend just about 4 year institution. Watch the 30 for 30 from a few years back. The football player who was expelled under very similar circumstances from Colorado School of Mines said that despite high academics he had been rejected by every school he applied to. And he said it numbered in the hundreds.

Maybe it is deserved, but these hearings aren't to determine whether they stay at the U, but whether they will attend college at all.
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After the Baylor mess, I can't imagine many schools want to take anyone under suspicion.
 


Here's the Carter Coughlin tweet about the girl picking out the player from a photo, even though he was supposedly facetiming his girlfriend for several hours, and was nowhere near the apartment. Most here have probably seen this, but some obviously have not. As we all know from the report, she was very intoxicated that night. We can't be sure this story is 100% accurate, but I also find the process of picking out the players from photos disturbing.

https://twitter.com/cmoe34/status/816712814312247297


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Will the players be allowed to request that items that the accuser did not allow the committee to see in the original inquiry ( the longer video and the rape kit/medical exam ) be entered into this process ?
 

bigticket1 said:
Will the players be allowed to request that items that the accuser did not allow the committee to see in the original inquiry ( the longer video and the rape kit/medical exam ) be entered into this process ?
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I would assume they can present any information/evidence they have access to...they'd need the accuser's OK to have any private medical information...HIPAA privacy rule.
 

MNfootballfan said:
It is good to know that if Winfield is planning on appealing it is safe to assume that he is staying at the U. There is no other reason to appeal if you were headed to another school.
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I hope so. That kid is good and has an incredibly high ceiling in my opinion. Plus I love his dad, one of my fav Vikes and one of our best corners in franchise history!


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PitinoFan said:
Here's the Carter Coughlin tweet about the girl picking out the player from a photo, even though he was supposedly facetiming his girlfriend for several hours, and was nowhere near the apartment. Most here have probably seen this, but some obviously have not. As we all know from the report, she was very intoxicated that night. We can't be sure this story is 100% accurate, but I also find the process of picking out the players from photos disturbing.

https://twitter.com/cmoe34/status/816712814312247297


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Yikes, I find all the stuff about Claeys just being a dad fighting for his kids very disturbing. To me, that's not the kind of relationship that should exist on the football team, the coach needs to be a mentor yes, but not a parent. The players keep being told by coaches and fans they are just kids, but they are not (as 10 are finding out). Hopefully this unfortunate situation will focus for the remaining players the importance of being conscious of your actions and what impact they can have on your life.
 

PitinoFan said:
He probably wants to clear his name, regardless.

Carter Coughlin tweeted about one of the accused face timing his girlfriend for several hours during the time period in question, and was apparently nowhere near the incident. Supposedly, the girl picked the player out from a photo. Does anyone happen to know who that player is?


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Picked out of a line up? Wow... that is straight BS, I'm sorry. The alleged victim was highly intoxicated and just picked out some black guys she thought she remembered? Cumon... let's clear this thing up and gett back to football...


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Ski U Master said:
Yikes, I find all the stuff about Claeys just being a dad fighting for his kids very disturbing. To me, that's not the kind of relationship that should exist on the football team, the coach needs to be a mentor yes, but not a parent. The players keep being told by coaches and fans they are just kids, but they are not (as 10 are finding out). Hopefully this unfortunate situation will focus for the remaining players the importance of being conscious of your actions and what impact they can have on your life.
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I think it was Jerry Kill who said that for some kids their coaches are the only functional family they have.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I would assume they can present any information/evidence they have access to...they'd need the accuser's OK to have any private medical information...HIPAA privacy rule.
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I believe I read (what seems like a long time ago) that all parties must agree to the evidence presented. And I believe it was stated that she did not allow the video to be seen :)confused:) so it would surprise me if it were presented this go 'round.

Of course, I could be 100% wrong, but I do recall reading that earlier.
 



gopherdudepart2 said:
Shenault seems to be the consensus from a lot of folks as the one that was never in the apartment building.
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The police report clearly indicated that Seth Green was not in the apartment. He was in a room on the first floor while the incident was in a room on the third floor.
 

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