All Things 2024 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Not sure it's the right move but Davis faced a mutiny if he didn't.

It's a terrible move, but he painted himself into a corner. I like AP, I really do, but what happened with the Raiders since he took over was absolutely blown up to mythical proportions. The players played harder than they did under Josh McD, and they managed to beat the likes of Easton Stick, Danny DeVito, Zach Wilson, and Jarrett Stidham; not to mention losing to Josh Dobbs/Nick Mullens and the Vikings, 3-0. I have to see a little more than that to hand him the job

Davis has created a situation where the players have direct access to the owner and have the owner's ear; that's a bad situation, absolutely ZERO chain of command, undermines the coaching staff and Front Office.

I hope I'm wrong, but if the Chargers land Harbaugh, AP and Raiders are going to spend the next couple season getting bitch-slapped by Harbaugh, Sean Payton and Andy Reid. They could very well start 2024 with the 4th best QB in the division and the 4th best Head Coach.

Not a great combination.

 

[howeda7]

It's a terrible move, but he painted himself into a corner. I like AP, I really do, but what happened with the Raiders since he took over was absolutely blown up to mythical proportions. The players played harder than they did under Josh McD, and they managed to beat the likes of Easton Stick, Danny DeVito, Zach Wilson, and Jarrett Stidham; not to mention losing to Josh Dobbs/Nick Mullens and the Vikings, 3-0. I have to see a little more than that to hand him the job

Davis has created a situation where the players have direct access to the owner and have the owner's ear; that's a bad situation, absolutely ZERO chain of command, undermines the coaching staff and Front Office.

I hope I'm wrong, but if the Chargers land Harbaugh, AP and Raiders are going to spend the next couple season getting bitch-slapped by Harbaugh, Sean Payton and Andy Reid. They could very well start 2024 with the 4th best QB in the division and the 4th best Head Coach.

Not a great combination.

4th best HC, yes. But the Broncos are likely going to end up with some combination of Stidham or Jameis Winston and a rookie.

 

[RememberMurray]

Fan vote

Yep. Exactly.

And they are working on new technology that will enable fans to vote, via smartphone, on every offensive play-call just moments before the play is actually run on the field. The votes will be tallied instantly, and the top vote-getting play will be sent to the QBs helmet receiver.

No more coaches. Think of the savings!

 

[RememberMurray]

That's a ton of wishful thinking. I'm honestly skeptical they would even have split against the Lions, with a healthy Cousins.

Kirk would have been stuck with the same poor running attack and by then solved defense.

Again they were 4-4 in the games he started. To think that they would have gotten to 11 Wins with him seems crazy, with all their other shortcomings and a tough final 3 game stretch.

I'm not sure they still would have beaten Atlanta. Dobbs running and unpredictable nature were a big part of that game. Ya never know.

If you want to see the embodiment of wishful thinking, take a look at the success vs. failure rate in the NFL for drafting a first round QB over the last 20 years.

 

[RememberMurray]

whether it's fair or not, more is expected of a veteran QB than is expected of a rookie - because the veteran has the benefit of more experience.

Ummm... okay. But at some vague, undetermined point in the future, the 'young' QB becomes personally responsible for wins and losses by the team... that is, he does if you buy into this notion that QBs are the players who are credited with/blamed for wins and losses.

you draft a rookie QB hoping that he'll be good. you expect a veteran QB - especially a higher-paid veteran QB - to be good. just like any business - you expect more from an experienced employee than you do from a new hire.

Has Cousins been, uh, not good? Was his overall performance lacking?

If the Vikings decide to go the rookie QB route and allow Cousins to test the market, I think there may be an NFL GM or two (or more) who will put a nice contract offer in front of him, based on Cousins' performance in his time as a Viking. Those people, who make these decisions for a living, might say Cousins has been pretty, pretty, pretty good (Larry David reference).

sure, if the Vikes go with a rookie QB and the rookie struggles, the rookie will catch some flack - but I submit that more flack would go to the GM who drafted the QB.

You paint a pretty picture, SON. What an excellent scenario that will be for Viking fans! The Vikings will be the Carolina Panthers of the NFC North. New front office, new coach, and new rookie QB every other season, drafted with a very high pick, which was earned by perpetual ineptitude.

 

[TNGophfan]

Ummm... okay. But at some vague, undetermined point in the future, the 'young' QB becomes personally responsible for wins and losses by the team... that is, he does if you buy into this notion that QBs are the players who are credited with/blamed for wins and losses.



Has Cousins been, uh, not good? Was his overall performance lacking?

If the Vikings decide to go the rookie QB route and allow Cousins to test the market, I think there may be an NFL GM or two (or more) who will put a nice contract offer in front of him, based on Cousins' performance in his time as a Viking. Those people, who make these decisions for a living, might say Cousins has been pretty, pretty, pretty good (Larry David reference).



You paint a pretty picture, SON. What an excellent scenario that will be for Viking fans! The Vikings will be the Carolina Panthers of the NFC North. New front office, new coach, and new rookie QB every other season, drafted with a very high pick, which was earned by perpetual ineptitude.

Vikes have bigger issues than QB. Kirk is very good, especially when he has time. That said, I don't believe they will win anything big, even with him, if they don't address all their other issues, i.e. o-line, d-line, secondary, even LB.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Yep. Exactly.

And they are working on new technology that will enable fans to vote, via smartphone, on every offensive play-call just moments before the play is actually run on the field. The votes will be tallied instantly, and the top vote-getting play will be sent to the QBs helmet receiver.

No more coaches. Think of the savings!

Can’t wait to see what some on here call for plays

 

[Spaulding!No!]

It's a terrible move, but he painted himself into a corner. I like AP, I really do, but what happened with the Raiders since he took over was absolutely blown up to mythical proportions. The players played harder than they did under Josh McD, and they managed to beat the likes of Easton Stick, Danny DeVito, Zach Wilson, and Jarrett Stidham; not to mention losing to Josh Dobbs/Nick Mullens and the Vikings, 3-0. I have to see a little more than that to hand him the job

Davis has created a situation where the players have direct access to the owner and have the owner's ear; that's a bad situation, absolutely ZERO chain of command, undermines the coaching staff and Front Office.

I hope I'm wrong, but if the Chargers land Harbaugh, AP and Raiders are going to spend the next couple season getting bitch-slapped by Harbaugh, Sean Payton and Andy Reid. They could very well start 2024 with the 4th best QB in the division and the 4th best Head Coach.

Not a great combination.

I know you meant Tommy but picturing Danny D under center is gold.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Ummm... okay. But at some vague, undetermined point in the future, the 'young' QB becomes personally responsible for wins and losses by the team... that is, he does if you buy into this notion that QBs are the players who are credited with/blamed for wins and losses.



Has Cousins been, uh, not good? Was his overall performance lacking?

If the Vikings decide to go the rookie QB route and allow Cousins to test the market, I think there may be an NFL GM or two (or more) who will put a nice contract offer in front of him, based on Cousins' performance in his time as a Viking. Those people, who make these decisions for a living, might say Cousins has been pretty, pretty, pretty good (Larry David reference).



You paint a pretty picture, SON. What an excellent scenario that will be for Viking fans! The Vikings will be the Carolina Panthers of the NFC North. New front office, new coach, and new rookie QB every other season, drafted with a very high pick, which was earned by perpetual ineptitude.

The Vikes are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

Even if Cousins is 0% responsible for wins and losses - the Vikings are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

Vikings records in the Cousins era:
2018 = 8-7-1 -- missed playoffs
2019 = 10-6 -- lost 2nd round of playoffs
2020 = 7-9 -- missed playoffs
2021 = 8-9 -- missed playoffs
2022 = 13-4 -- lost 1st round of playoffs
2023 = 7-10 -- missed playoffs

The Vikes are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

But - according to some - the Vikes must keep Kirk Cousins. No other option should even be discussed. The Vikes must keep Kirk Cousins so that they................can go 1-2 in the playoffs over a 6-year period.

Let's keep doing something that has not worked. Because it might work in the future. Ya, sure.

 

[Ope3]

I know you meant Tommy but picturing Danny D under center is gold.

Louie De Palma would have to jump each down to receive the snap from the center.

 

[TNGophfan]

The Vikes are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

Even if Cousins is 0% responsible for wins and losses - the Vikings are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

Vikings records in the Cousins era:
2018 = 8-7-1 -- missed playoffs
2019 = 10-6 -- lost 2nd round of playoffs
2020 = 7-9 -- missed playoffs
2021 = 8-9 -- missed playoffs
2022 = 13-4 -- lost 1st round of playoffs
2023 = 7-10 -- missed playoffs

The Vikes are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

But - according to some - the Vikes must keep Kirk Cousins. No other option should even be discussed. The Vikes must keep Kirk Cousins so that they................can go 1-2 in the playoffs over a 6-year period.

Let's keep doing something that has not worked. Because it might work in the future. Ya, sure.

Agreed

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

The Vikes are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

Even if Cousins is 0% responsible for wins and losses - the Vikings are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

Vikings records in the Cousins era:
2018 = 8-7-1 -- missed playoffs
2019 = 10-6 -- lost 2nd round of playoffs
2020 = 7-9 -- missed playoffs
2021 = 8-9 -- missed playoffs
2022 = 13-4 -- lost 1st round of playoffs
2023 = 7-10 -- missed playoffs

The Vikes are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

But - according to some - the Vikes must keep Kirk Cousins. No other option should even be discussed. The Vikes must keep Kirk Cousins so that they................can go 1-2 in the playoffs over a 6-year period.

Let's keep doing something that has not worked. Because it might work in the future. Ya, sure.

It yielded what it did; competitive football with a couple playoff appearances. If it hasn’t produced more than thst by now, there is no evidence to suggest it will produce more in the future.

It appears we have many adherents of the Sunk Cost Fallacy on here.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

The Vikes are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

But - according to some - the Vikes must keep Kirk Cousins. No other option should even be discussed. The Vikes must keep Kirk Cousins so that they................can go 1-2 in the playoffs over a 6-year period.

Let's keep doing something that has not worked. Because it might work in the future. Ya, sure.

I get what you're saying and I don't disagree, but where I take issue with some takes is that the opposite is true; the notion that some think all it takes to get a top-5 QB is to trade up for one and take one in the top 5-7 picks of the NFL draft. History would tell you that's far, far from true.

I'm one that happens to think this Front Office knows what they're doing. They've set the team up to be INCREDIBLY cap flexible in 2024 and particularly 2025.

If they absolutely love one of the available QB's, by all accounts, they'll do just about anything they have to in order to put themselves in position to take that player (word is they were EXCEEDINGLY aggressive last draft in trying to move up for Anthony Richardson).

If they don't put themselves in position to take a QB with a high pick this offseason, that will tell me they weren't exactly enamored with any of them, and we could see another year of Cousins

 

[GophersInIowa]

The Vikes are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

Even if Cousins is 0% responsible for wins and losses - the Vikings are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

Vikings records in the Cousins era:
2018 = 8-7-1 -- missed playoffs
2019 = 10-6 -- lost 2nd round of playoffs
2020 = 7-9 -- missed playoffs
2021 = 8-9 -- missed playoffs
2022 = 13-4 -- lost 1st round of playoffs
2023 = 7-10 -- missed playoffs

The Vikes are not winning with Kirk Cousins.

But - according to some - the Vikes must keep Kirk Cousins. No other option should even be discussed. The Vikes must keep Kirk Cousins so that they................can go 1-2 in the playoffs over a 6-year period.

Let's keep doing something that has not worked. Because it might work in the future. Ya, sure.

Depends on what they want to do. I think Cousins gives them the best chance of winning right now. Drafting a QB is necessary but risky. If they think they can draft a QB that can be at least adequate immediately and the money saved will allow them to fill some gaps in free agency, then that’s what they should do.

I’m skeptical they’ll be able to draft a QB that can help immediately though.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Depends on what they want to do. I think Cousins gives them the best chance of winning right now.

Winning what?

They’re not remotely close to being a SB contender, are they ?

Drafting a QB is necessary but risky. If they think they can draft a QB that can be at least adequate immediately and the money saved will allow them to fill some gaps in free agency, then that’s what they should do.

I’m skeptical they’ll be able to draft a QB that can help immediately though.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Depends on what they want to do. I think Cousins gives them the best chance of winning right now. Drafting a QB is necessary but risky. If they think they can draft a QB that can be at least adequate immediately and the money saved will allow them to fill some gaps in free agency, then that’s what they should do.

I’m skeptical they’ll be able to draft a QB that can help immediately though.

Honestly, it all depends on what kind of grades they have on any of these QB's. Like I said before, if they're pulling the trigger on a QB in the top half of the 1st round, that person better check EVERY box for KOC's offense and scheme.

If that player exists, hell yes, I'm 100% all in favor of pulling out all the stops to get that player. But the notion that they should draft a QB in the top half of the first round just to take a QB is just plain ridiculous. Every team is going to have different grades on all of these QB's, across the board.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Winning what?

They’re not remotely close to being a SB contender, are they ?

No. That’s why I said it depends on what they want to do. Obviously the worst thing they can do is sign Cousins and do nothing else substantial.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

For anyone interested at all, Luke Braun (sp?) on the Locked On Vikings podcast yesterday had a very, very good breakdown of the Vikings salary cap situation going into next year and the impact signings for players like Hunter and JJ, Harrison Smith retiring, and a few other things will have. It's really really good, without going full out "geek squad" and too deep into the weeds.

The short version is, it's surprising how small of an impact signing Hunter and JJ will actually have on next year's salary cap for the Vikings, using some projected contract values for each player. I was pretty impressed. I forget how much he got into whatever they do with Cousins, if at all, but it's worth a listen if you have a few minutes.

It's probably about 20-25 minutes long.

 

[TNGophfan]

Having a QB that can run is such an advantage.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

No. That’s why I said it depends on what they want to do. Obviously the worst thing they can do is sign Cousins and do nothing else substantial.

Yes

My point is that we have so many holes that winning now isn’t feasible no matter how many changes they make this off-season (this is a multi-year project, ergo, signing Cousins is folly.

I specifically asked, win what, because a SB ain’t feasible and there are some fans who would be happy if “we made the playoffs.”

Hard pass for me. Blow it up, get a young QB, so you can sell them as the future.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Packer time!

 

[GophersInIowa]

Yes

My point is that we have so many holes that winning now isn’t feasible no matter how many changes they make this off-season (this is a multi-year project, ergo, signing Cousins is folly.

I specifically asked, win what, because a SB ain’t feasible and there are some fans who would be happy if “we made the playoffs.”

Hard pass for me. Blow it up, get a young QB, so you can sell them as the future.

I disagree. I’m not sure what the correct route is next year but I don’t think it’s impossible for them to make a deep run in the playoffs. The offense if healthy is pretty good. The defense has a lot of holes but if they draft well and are able to pick up a few key free agents, they could be pretty good. Too much talent not to be.

A lot of big ifs though.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

just out of curiosity, listened to the Skor North gang this week. on one show, they were kicking around the "Cousins goes to Atlanta to play for Belichick" idea. two days later, it was "The Dolphins will trade Tua and sign Cousins."

if you put any stock in Doogie, he was saying that whether Cousins stays in MN is all about the terms of the contract - not so much the money, but the length of the contract and whether it is 100% guaranteed. according to Doogie, if another team offers Cousins 3 years fully guaranteed, he doesn't think the Vikings would try to match that.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I disagree. I’m not sure what the correct route is next year but I don’t think it’s impossible for them to make a deep run in the playoffs. The offense if healthy is pretty good. The defense has a lot of holes but if they draft well and are able to pick up a few key free agents, they could be pretty good. Too much talent not to be.

A lot of big ifs though.

I’ll bite, what’s your definition of a “deep run?”

Where does the money come from for the free agents?

Your Midwest optimism is charming . FYI - I may have a bridge for sale

 

[GophersInIowa]

I’ll bite, what’s your definition of a “deep run?”

Where does the money come Faron for the free agents?

Your Midwest optimism is charming . FYI - I may have a bridge for sale

NFC Championship or further?

I don’t know where the money comes from. I’ll let the experts figure that out. Maybe there isn’t a way. If there isn’t, I don’t think they will bring Cousins back. That’s really my point. If they do, they must feel like they can make the upgrades they need.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I’ll bite, what’s your definition of a “deep run?”

Where does the money come Faron for the free agents?

Your Midwest optimism is charming . FYI - I may have a bridge for sale

I told ya! Listen to the podcast! It's surprising how much money they'll have to spend in FA this offseason, even with the restructuring and extensions they are likely to do. They will have some money to make some moves, how much of course depends on what they do with Cousins, among other things.

 

[gopher7]

49ers took a page of the Fleck 2-min offense and got what they deserved.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

NFC Championship or further?

Did Mpls Gopher hijack your account?

As I’m typing this Olson says the days of being a pocket passer are over - if you can’t move your feet to help out the OL, you really can’t play in the league any longer; foreshadowing

There is a lot more thst needs to go right than wrong for your plan to come to fruition. I’ll take the under

I don’t know where the money comes from. I’ll let the experts figure that out. Maybe there isn’t a way. If there isn’t, I don’t think they will bring Cousins back. That’s really my point. If they do, they must feel like they can make the upgrades they need.

I told ya! Listen to the podcast! It's surprising how much money they'll have to spend in FA this offseason, even with the restructuring and extensions they are likely to do. They will have some money to make some moves, how much of course depends on what they do with Cousins, among other things.

I’ll take your word for it.

Assuming the is correct, they still have to prioritize which positions to fill and the have to get the right players for those spots.
Color me dubious

I hope that I’m wrong and that you and @GophersInIowa sre right. I’ll gladly take that L.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Did Mpls Gopher hijack your account?

As I’m typing this Olson says the days of being a pocket passer are over - if you can’t move your feet to help out the OL, you really can’t play in the league any longer; foreshadowing

There is a lot more thst needs to go right than wrong for your plan to come to fruition. I’ll take the under


I’ll take your word for it.

Assuming the is correct, they still have to prioritize which positions to fill and the have to get the right players for those spots.
Color me dubious

I hope that I’m wrong and that you and @GophersInIowa sre right. I’ll gladly take that L.

There’s a reason why I’m laying on my couch right now and not coaching.

I don’t think the FO and coaches are dumb. If they bring Cousins back, they’ll have to have some kind of plan. It may not work of course though.

I would like us to draw up more pass plays like the Packers where there isn’t a defender within 10 yards of the receiver. KOC definitely has to step up his play calling.

 

[howeda7]

Fitting end for Jordan Elvis Grbac Love.