All Things 2024 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Kwesi is off to a bad start in terms of competency. He shouldn't do a twofer for an unproven when he has so few picks. His talent judging skills have been lacking so far. Maybe he takes the two 1sts and drafts the next Mahomes. History and his own body of work say that's unlikely.

I struggle a little bit with the notion that people are so down on KAM. I don't really get it. For starters, it's just plain a little early to make any real strong assessments.

I get the frustration with probably missing on Cine and Booth, but they have made some other solid draft picks outside of those guys and you obviously have to give him credit for guys like Pace.

But the part that gets glossed over is the deals they DIDN'T make. They have made some very, very good moves in that regard;

- letting Dalvin Cook walk
- letting Thielen leave and eating all of that cap hit early
- having the discipline to let Cousins walk
- having the discipline to let Hunter walk

Trading for Hockenson, whether you want to admit it or not, was a very, very good trade, and for his production, the contract they gave him was more than reasonable.

KAM's management of the cap, at least to me, has been exceptional. They have moved to rid themselves of dead cap hit moving forward and are positioned extremely well going forward.

At the very least, we should see how they handle the rest of this offseason/draft before making any definitive declarations on his abilities as GM

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

The Giants would've won those same two Super Bowl's with Rivers.

Eli ain't Peyton

He has a reasonable sized forehead

 

[MplsGopher]

Kurt Warners top two were Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis. Will has yet to throw a td, and Pickett has already been traded.

My point was Warner loved them.

Fallacy detected:

Being wrong on picking for success, does not disprove that he can accurately diagnose poor habits/decisions and detect busts.


That said, I was mainly just reinforcing the point that jamiche brought up, that everyone has opinions every which way.

Some love Maye, some love JJM, some don't.

 

[kg21]

Fallacy detected:

Being wrong on picking for success, does not disprove that he can accurately diagnose poor habits/decisions and detect busts.


That said, I was mainly just reinforcing the point that jamiche brought up, that everyone has opinion every which way.

Some love Maye, some love JJM, some don't.

Damn, whenever I bring up someone's opinion..........oh wait, nevermind!

 

[MplsGopher]

KAM's management of the cap, at least to me, has been exceptional. They have moved to rid themselves of dead cap hit moving forward and are positioned extremely well going forward.

Not that KAM has no part in this, but what I understand is a lot of the cap magic is performed by Rob Brzezinski

 

[MplsGopher]

Damn, whenever I bring up someone's opinion...

No need for you to post if you aren't adding anything to the thread

 

[kg21]

No need for you to post if you aren't adding anything to the thread

I think we should trade up and take a qb. I could post a few people that think the same thing, but they have under 5000 followers. It's hard for me to add anything when my opinion is always wrong.

 

[jamiche]

I struggle a little bit with the notion that people are so down on KAM. I don't really get it. For starters, it's just plain a little early to make any real strong assessments.

I get the frustration with probably missing on Cine and Booth, but they have made some other solid draft picks outside of those guys and you obviously have to give him credit for guys like Pace.

But the part that gets glossed over is the deals they DIDN'T make. They have made some very, very good moves in that regard;

- letting Dalvin Cook walk
- letting Thielen leave and eating all of that cap hit early
- having the discipline to let Cousins walk
- having the discipline to let Hunter walk

Trading for Hockenson, whether you want to admit it or not, was a very, very good trade, and for his production, the contract they gave him was more than reasonable.

KAM's management of the cap, at least to me, has been exceptional. They have moved to rid themselves of dead cap hit moving forward and are positioned extremely well going forward.

At the very least, we should see how they handle the rest of this offseason/draft before making any definitive declarations on his abilities as GM

All good points. However, the draft is a GM’s most important responsibility and Kwesi has had two weak ones in his first two years. His draft lineup this year looks like a Spielman draft, heavily back ended. Statistically, using two 1sts to move up is more likely to end up in a Trey Lance scenario than landing a premier qb.

 

[MplsGopher]

I think we should trade up and take a qb.

Of course you do.

Problem is, everyone on Earth’s great grandmother also knows how pathetically desperate we are.

If I’m NE I’m demanding two future first rounders. Don’t like it? Go F yourself, we’ll just take Maye ourselves.

If I’m Arizona I’m demanding at least a future first rounder and maybe some more picks. Don’t like it? Go F yourself. Don’t need to move down.

It's hard for me to add anything when my opinion is always wrong.

I don’t think it’s always wrong. Also not my problem

 

[MplsGopher]

All I can do at this point is hope that Wilfs have taken trading draft picks out of KAMs hands.

Don’t allow a man desperate to save his own career to F over the Vikings for the next several years.

 

[Ope3]

All I can do at this point is hope that Wilfs have taken trading draft picks out of KAMs hands.

Don’t allow a man desperate to save his own career to F over the Vikings for the next several years.

Good one. Now you are advocating for the Wilfs to do something you ripped Jerry Jones for doing.

OK.

I would have worded that as "he's terrible at hiring a competent GM".

Just saying "he's a terrible owner" to me means far worse, like he interferes with the daily operations of the team and personally screws it up. Jerry Jones style

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

All good points. However, the draft is a GM’s most important responsibility and Kwesi has had two weak ones in his first two years. His draft lineup this year looks like a Spielman draft, heavily back ended. Statistically, using two 1sts to move up is more likely to end up in a Trey Lance scenario than landing a premier qb.

I am not confident either in Kwesi. However, they need a QB. If they really believe in the prospect(s) they are going after, its now or never. Either they will be successful or at least Kwesi will be gone.

 

[kg21]

I am not confident either in Kwesi. However, they need a QB. If they really believe in the prospect(s) they are going after, its now or never. Either they will be successful or at least Kwesi will be gone.

Go for it with the qb!

Danielle Hunter was drafted 10 years ago. We haven't drafted a defender that matters since. Trae Waynes is probably the best one. LMAO

It's like it's a given we will screw up the qb pick, yet hit on anyone we pick on defense.

The logic is hilarious.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

All good points. However, the draft is a GM’s most important responsibility and Kwesi has had two weak ones in his first two years. His draft lineup this year looks like a Spielman draft, heavily back ended. Statistically, using two 1sts to move up is more likely to end up in a Trey Lance scenario than landing a premier qb.

I hear what you're saying, but I would bet you a hefty wager that probably over 20 teams in the NFL (and especially their fans) would tell they don't think they have drafted as well as they would have liked. Everyone blows picks, every year.

I'm not totally sure I would say the draft is THE most important job of the GM. The job of the GM is to scout your own team and to know your own team; and then to build your team with the draft and FA. Because of just how complicated it is, I just don't think KAM gets enough credit for how he's handled the salary cap and the Vikings roster.

The Vikings are projected to have the 4th most cap space available in 2025 as it stands right now. People bitched for years about kicking the can down the road, dead cap hits, et al... Well, here you go. This new regime has taken the approach of paying the piper in 2023 and 2024, and as you would expect, the Vikings suffered for it last season.

Look, I'm not saying he's a rockstar, but at the very least, it's worth seeing how they handle the time between now and Week 1 this fall.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Incompetence references a body of work. David Kahn was incompetent. Billy Smith was incompetent. Gerson Rosas miscalculated. He made a mistake. He was far from incompetent.

Kwesi is off to a bad start in terms of competency. He shouldn't do a twofer for an unproven when he has so few picks. His talent judging skills have been lacking so far. Maybe he takes the two 1sts and drafts the next Mahomes. History and his own body of work say that's unlikely.

Don't fall in love with the shiny object. The current Vikings front office haven't shown they are smarter than Rosas was. Not close.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Giving up a bunch of draft capital to move up and not get the player you are moving up for is an incompetent move. It's one of the dumbest moves a GM could ever make.

The Vikings are not going to move up to not get the QB they want. That's just not going to happen.

 

[Slim Tubby]

If you hit on QB in the Draft, your franchise is probably set for success for the next 12 - 15 years. If you miss, you set the entire franchise back at least three (3) years and looking for a new gig.

Good luck, KAM.

(Psst...it's Daniels.)

 

[Ope3]

I am not confident either in Kwesi. However, they need a QB. If they really believe in the prospect(s) they are going after, its now or never. Either they will be successful or at least Kwesi will be gone.

If you hit on QB in the Draft, your franchise is probably set for success for the next 12 - 15 years. If you miss, you set the entire franchise back at least three (3) years and looking for a new gig.

Good luck, KAM.

(Psst...it's Daniels.)

If they fail on a high pick with a QB it's just as much on KOC as Kwesi. KOC was hired in large part for his ability to identify and develop QB talent. His input will drive any decision significantly.

If Kwesi gets canned then a new GM would also likely replace the HC.

 

[MplsGopher]

Now you are advocating for the Wilfs to do something you ripped Jerry Jones for doing.

Nope. Exactly opposite situations.

You missed dunking there by about a foot. Sit down

 

[MplsGopher]

It's like it's a given we will screw up the qb pick, yet hit on anyone we pick on defense.

Taking the 4th QB in the draft or taking the first DT in the draft.

Yep, exactly equal situations!!

 

[MplsGopher]

The Vikings are not going to move up to not get the QB they want. That's just not going to happen.

Then I hope it falls apart and we stick to picking 11th.

Because there is literally 0.00000…% chance that the Pats will give up #3 for just this years #11 and #23. Literally zero.

They don’t have to give a F what some “chart” says. They will bend us over a table.


Barely better going to 4.

 

[kg21]

Taking the 4th QB in the draft or taking the first DT in the draft.

Yep, exactly equal situations!!

10 straight years



Who is the fourth qb?

Also, you want to go with defensive tackle. When I would say the d'line got blown off the ball, you
would always come running. Hunter's stats were empty and now you want to draft defensive line. I love reading your material.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

If they fail on a high pick with a QB it's just as much on KOC as Kwesi. KOC was hired in large part for his ability to identify and develop QB talent. His input will drive any decision significantly.

If Kwesi gets canned then a new GM would also likely replace the HC.

I agree with this entirely. Well put. This QB decision will be on both of them

 

[Ope3]

Nope. Exactly opposite situations.

How is it any different?

Additionally, if the Wilfs don't trust Kwesi to make a productive draft pick, then why the heck haven't they fired him already? Keeping someone that they have no faith in is equally as bad as making a bad hire in the first place.

Wilfs. Wonderful owners (in your purview).

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I was wondering about this. Good to see Alec Lewis in The Athletic addressing the issue of compensatory picks for the Vikings in 2025:

"
The Vikings are slated to get two third-round picks as a byproduct of Cousins signing with the Falcons and receiver K.J. Osborn moving to New England, according to Over The Cap. If left guard Dalton Risner signs elsewhere, Minnesota could recoup another third-round pick thanks to Danielle Hunter’s deal with the Texans.

Two additional third-round picks should ease the loss of the 2025 second-rounder, which Minnesota traded to the Texans.

 

[jamiche]

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Giving up a bunch of draft capital to move up and not get the player you are moving up for is an incompetent move. It's one of the dumbest moves a GM could ever make.

The Vikings are not going to move up to not get the QB they want. That's just not going to happen.

I have yet to hear any professional team in any sport announce that the player they just drafted wasn't the player they really wanted.

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

If they fail on a high pick with a QB it's just as much on KOC as Kwesi. KOC was hired in large part for his ability to identify and develop QB talent. His input will drive any decision significantly.

If Kwesi gets canned then a new GM would also likely replace the HC.

You're probably right, but my man crush on KOC will not allow me to agree with you

 

[short ornery norwegian]

saw a tweet someplace - and of course, can't find it again.

but the gist of it as I remember - the writer was talking about drafting QB's being a hit-and-miss proposition.

If I remember this correctly, he said that based on his analysis, teams drafting a QB early in the 1st round came away about 21% of the time with a QB who performed in the 90th percentile for their career.

he added that teams drafting a QB in the 2nd round came away with a 90th percentile QB about 7% of the time.

bottom line - drafting a QB early is no guarantee. but the lower a QB is drafted, the lower the odds of that QB having a successful career.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I have yet to hear any professional team in any sport announce that the player they just drafted wasn't the player they really wanted.

Everyone knew when the Wolves moved up and ended up taking Culver, that's not who they wanted. Everyone knows if/when the Vikings move up in this draft, it will be to take the QB they want for the future. We just don't know which QB at which spot that will be. Stop being so obtuse.

 

[howeda7]

saw a tweet someplace - and of course, can't find it again.

but the gist of it as I remember - the writer was talking about drafting QB's being a hit-and-miss proposition.

If I remember this correctly, he said that based on his analysis, teams drafting a QB early in the 1st round came away about 21% of the time with a QB who performed in the 90th percentile for their career.

he added that teams drafting a QB in the 2nd round came away with a 90th percentile QB about 7% of the time.

bottom line - drafting a QB early is no guarantee. but the lower a QB is drafted, the lower the odds of that QB having a successful career.

Scary stats. It makes you wonder whether the chances of unlocking/fixing Sam Darnold are more or less than 21%.

 

[jamiche]

Everyone knew when the Wolves moved up and ended up taking Culver, that's not who they wanted. Everyone knows if/when the Vikings move up in this draft, it will be to take the QB they want for the future. We just don't know which QB at which spot that will be. Stop being so obtuse.

Everyone knows that when Gerson drafted Culver he had high praise for him publicly. Check it out. Everyone knows that whoever the Vikings draft they will publicly say the player was the guy they wanted all along, whether it was the case or not.

Everyone knows that you like to speak in generalities.