All Things 2024 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread


Slim Tubby

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Or just, you know, wait til the cap gets bigger
The best way to bite the bullet on Cousin's dead money instead of pushing it farther out is to have a QB on a rookie deal. Drafting is always a crapshoot and I'm a Cousins fan but at some point we're going to need to pay the piper. We don't have enough talent to support Kirk in a 2-year window IMO. It will be an interesting couple of months for sure.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe

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Vikings need to pay for their sins at some point. I agree with you. Just get it out the way.

I think most would agree, but it's important to remember where things sit; 2024 will be Year 3 of this regime, after a moderately disappointing season last year.

It'll be interesting to see how it affects how they handle their business but just what exactly KOC and KAM decide to do with the QB position this year will likely determine their future with the franchise. Make the wrong move, go all-in on a high 1st round draft pick QB that's a bust, and they could very well be out the door.

Part of me thinks that means going the "safe route" with Cousins, but I honestly think that will be tested; I really expect someone to overpay for Cousins on the FA market. He's the best available, and it's not close, and there are a lot of QB-needy teams with coaches/FO's that don't have a couple years to develop a QB.

Cousins is going to get paid, just you watch...
 

7Gopher7

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I don't care about the age that much, but drafting a QB to sit him for 2/5 of the window where he's cheap doesn't make sense with the modern salary cap. Just because it sort of worked for the Packers with Jordan Love doesn't make it a good plan.
Correct….age means almost nothing unless you are worried about having him for 15 years instead of 12.
 

MplsGopher

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The best way to bite the bullet on Cousin's dead money instead of pushing it farther out is to have a QB on a rookie deal.
But why bite a bullet just to bite a bullet, when you don't have to??

"You know, the best way to drown yourself is to jump into the ocean wearing lead shoes!"

We don't have enough talent to support Kirk in a 2-year window IMO.
Just like the Lions didn't have enough talent to support Goff in 2021.

Ans: go get more talent. It worked
 



Ope3

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Where do you come up with this stuff?

Brady, Montana, Manning, Favre, Brees, Warner, Wilson, Unitas, Dawson, Moon, Gannon, Cunningham, Cousins...

Should I keep going?
Both Cunningham and Cousins have a glaring hole in their resumes that the other 11 QBs have attained.
 

MplsGopher

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“Take that Randall!! You ain’t S!”
- Gary Anderson’s foot

:sneaky:
 

howeda7

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Where do you come up with this stuff?

Brady, Montana, Manning, Favre, Brees, Warner, Wilson, Unitas, Dawson, Moon, Gannon, Cunningham, Cousins...

Should I keep going?
Fine. Great QB's in their prime, almost never become free agents. Montana, Brady, Favre and Moon were all late 30's when they become free agents. So Brees and Peyton Manning are the exceptions and Brees wasn't considered great when he left San Diego.

Gannon, Cunningham and Cousins were/are good, not great. That was my point. Winning a Super Bowl by signing a big $$ free agent QB rarely happens. Since 1990, the only regular free agent QBs to win the Super Bowl are Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Brees, Manning, Brady and Nick Foles.
 



dpodoll68

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Winning a Super Bowl by signing a big $$ free agent QB rarely happens.
That was a lot of words just to say this, which is correct and what you should've said in the first place, instead of your previous incorrect statement.
 

MplsGopher

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Note the sneaky switch to winning the Super Bowl instead of just getting there.

Also “big $$$” :sneaky:

Stafford free agent. Goff this year free agent. Jimmy G free agent.


Howeda’s flimsy, squishy point has been cut in half with a katana.
 

howeda7

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Note the sneaky switch to winning the Super Bowl instead of just getting there.

Also “big $$$” :sneaky:

Stafford free agent. Goff this year free agent. Jimmy G free agent.


Howeda’s flimsy, squishy point has been cut in half with a katana.
Stafford was traded for. Goff was traded for. Jimmy G was traded for by the 49ers. None were signed as free agents. Try again.
 

MplsGopher

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Good lord. How dishonest can you get?

You’re trying to argue that you have to have a rookie contract QB, as the only way.

None of those were rookie contract QB’s. Doesn’t matter how they were acquired. They were paying way more than a rookie deal.
 



kg21

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Stafford was traded for. Goff was traded for. Jimmy G was traded for by the 49ers. None were signed as free agents. Try again.
All true.

Time to bow out, Mpls.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Teddy Bridgewater was named HC at Miami N.W., his alma mater, one of the best HS programs in Miami.

Very cool and great to see him be in a position to coach and teach young men.
 


howeda7

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Good lord. How dishonest can you get?

You’re trying to argue that you have to have a rookie contract QB, as the only way.

None of those were rookie contract QB’s. Doesn’t matter how they were acquired. They were paying way more than a rookie deal.
I never said it was the only way, but it is the most common way.

Winning a Super Bowl by signing a free agent QB is very difficult. The only teams that have done so successfully in the past 34 years either had a historically great defense propping up a mediocre QB or one of the greatest QB's of all time at the end of their career. The only exceptions are Drew Brees and Peyton Manning and Manning also had a historically great D propping him up when they finally won it.

The Vikings were in position to replicate that in 2018 when they signed Cousins originally. They had a very good defense and team overall. Unfortunately it didn't work.

They are no longer in that position and continuing with Cousins would be a waste.
 


forever a gopher

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He'll always be "Teddy Two-Gloves" to some of us...
Thought of this when Purdy was struggling wearing the glove on his throwing hand during the rain game. My first thought was “Teddy wouldn’t have had a problem with that.”
 

MplsGopher

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BTW, what year was the 2nd Super Bowl Jimmy G made it to?
I originally screwed up that he was on the Pats when he won the SB twice. So when ope posted:
Jimmy G is an NFC Champion, not a SB Champion (as a starter).
I mistook that for being a 2x NFC champion.

I screwed up twice.


Also: Jimmy G led the 9ers to the Super Bowl under a non-rookie contract, thus slicing your point in half.
 

MplsGopher

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I never said it was the only way, but it is the most common way.

Winning a Super Bowl by signing a free agent QB is very difficult.
Doing a fake differentiation between FA and trade is just dishonesty.

Both are exactly the same in the way that counters your point: non-rookie contracts.
 

MplsGopher

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:love::love::love:

https://www.startribune.com/vikings...nielle-hunter-offseason-jim-souhan/600340585/

Souhan: Five steps the Vikings need to take this offseason

Step 1: Sign Kirk Cousins


If the Vikings are sincere about wanting to re-sign Cousins, and Cousins is sincere about wanting to stay in Minnesota, there is an easy deal to be made.

The Vikings probably are more certain about wanting Cousins than Cousins is about bypassing a free-agent market in which he could be considered the top quarterback, so if Cousins wants to leave, he will simply leave.

If he values playing for Kevin O'Connell, in O'Connell's offense and with Justin Jefferson, he should agree to a two-year contract worth about $90 million, plus whatever voidable or option years that Vikings capologist Rob Brzezinski includes to make the deal cap-friendly for the team.

I first heard that figure from former Vikings general manager Jeff Diamond two weeks ago.

Why two years for $90 million?

That average annual value puts him above Giants quarterback Daniel Jones, who is making $40 million and has done nothing to prove he is worth that much.

At the end of the season, Cousins talked about no longer needing to make a massive amount of money, but he also mentioned that he values what a contract means. In other words: He doesn't require a half-billion-dollar deal that will rival Patrick Mahomes', but he also doesn't want to be insulted by the Vikings' offer.

If he was willing to sign a deal in that range, and Brzezinski was able to manipulate it to make it beneficial for the Vikings' plans, this would be the first domino of their offseason to fall, and it would clear space for their other important deals.

This deal would also allow the Vikings to draft their future quarterback, knowing that Cousins was locked in for the period of time it would take the future quarterback to develop.

If the Vikings let Cousins leave, he will cost them $28 million in dead cap money. If they re-sign him, they can structure the deal to create more cap room for the 2024 season. It doesn't have to make sense to be true.
:love::love::love::love::love::love::love::love:
 

kg21

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^^^^^^^ All those smileys.

Souhans plan is they should sign Cousins, JJ, and Hunter.

A few months back I said this is what they wil do, and you and a bunch of others lectured me on learning how the salary cap works. They can't possibly sign all three.

You had better hope this doesn't happen, Mlps..........or you should go back and start deleting some of your posts to me on this. You and some others were giving me lessons on the salary cap.

I will mock you for days. The point of that would be to see how you were still right. LMAO

:love::love::love::love::love:
 
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short ornery norwegian

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^^^^^^^ All those smileys.

Souhans plan is they should sign Cousins, JJ, and Hunter.

A few months back I said this is what they wil do, and you and a bunch of others lectured me on learning how the salary cap works. They can't possibly sign all three.

You had better hope this doesn't happen, Mlps..........or you should go back and start deleting some of your posts to me on this. You and some others were giving me lessons on the salary cap.

:love::love::love::love::love:

I couldn't tell if Souhan's column was meant to be serious or sarcastic. he is apparently advocating that the Vikings sign 3 players to big-money contracts while claiming that (paraphrasing) "they can work out the salary cap." problem solved - just work out the salary cap. I guess it's just that easy - just tell the salary-cap people to make the numbers work. it's like magic.

sorry, but I just don't believe that things are that simple. every salary cap choice has ramifications for the rest of the roster. if you sign those three players, who has to be cut or agree to take a smaller salary to make it work? what does that mean for team depth?

and then the real bottom line --
one of Souhan's 5 points was: "Get better at roster building."

another magic solution. just get better. it's that easy. why hasn't every team in town figured this out? Wolves - just get better. Wild - just get better. Twins - just get better.

all of our problems are solved. glory, hallelujah.
 

howeda7

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Doing a fake differentiation between FA and trade is just dishonesty.

Both are exactly the same in the way that counters your point: non-rookie contracts.
No it isn't. Trading for a young QB who's "blocked" on his current team like Jimmy G or Brett Favre is very different than spending top $$ on an established free agent.
 

howeda7

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I couldn't tell if Souhan's column was meant to be serious or sarcastic. he is apparently advocating that the Vikings sign 3 players to big-money contracts while claiming that (paraphrasing) "they can work out the salary cap." problem solved - just work out the salary cap. I guess it's just that easy - just tell the salary-cap people to make the numbers work. it's like magic.

sorry, but I just don't believe that things are that simple. every salary cap choice has ramifications for the rest of the roster. if you sign those three players, who has to be cut or agree to take a smaller salary to make it work? what does that mean for team depth?

and then the real bottom line --
one of Souhan's 5 points was: "Get better at roster building."

another magic solution. just get better. it's that easy. why hasn't every team in town figured this out? Wolves - just get better. Wild - just get better. Twins - just get better.

all of our problems are solved. glory, hallelujah.
Jim and certain posters here think "yadda yadda" Rob Brzynski" is all you have to do to manage the salary cap.
 

RememberMurray

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Regarding the salary cap:

How much of that cap should the Vikings commit to JJ — who is a pass catcher, last time I checked — and what impact does the pending QB decision have on the JJ situation, and the cap?

If I recall correctly, JJ has said he wants to be the highest-paid non-QB in the league.

Do we pay him that kind of money, and then go cheap on the QB who will be throwing to our highly-paid receiver? That seems a little risky to me.

It's a tough question, with no easy answers.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Regarding the salary cap:

How much of that cap should the Vikings commit to JJ — who is a pass catcher, last time I checked — and what impact does the pending QB decision have on the JJ situation, and the cap?

If I recall correctly, JJ has said he wants to be the highest-paid non-QB in the league.

Do we pay him that kind of money, and then go cheap on the QB who will be throwing to our highly-paid receiver? That seems a little risky to me.

It's a tough question, with no easy answers.

how's this for an analogy - the NFL salary cap is like the game Jenga.

you pull out a piece (sign a player to a big deal) and hope that the entire structure does not collapse. but sooner or later, you pull out enough pieces and the structure collapses.

seriously - Murray, I get what you are saying. every move you make has implications for the rest of the roster. sign a WR, and you might not be able to sign another DB. sign the QB to a big deal, and you might have to cut a veteran at another position to make it work.

in reality, it is a jigsaw puzzle. if you can make the pieces all fit, they form a picture. and presumably, the GM knows what he wants the picture to look like. but if you lose a piece, then you wind up with a picture that has holes in it.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe

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I couldn't tell if Souhan's column was meant to be serious or sarcastic. he is apparently advocating that the Vikings sign 3 players to big-money contracts while claiming that (paraphrasing) "they can work out the salary cap." problem solved - just work out the salary cap. I guess it's just that easy - just tell the salary-cap people to make the numbers work. it's like magic.

sorry, but I just don't believe that things are that simple. every salary cap choice has ramifications for the rest of the roster. if you sign those three players, who has to be cut or agree to take a smaller salary to make it work? what does that mean for team depth?

Again, I'd highly recommend giving this a listen if any of you have 20-25 minutes. Braun is a pretty sharp cat, borderline pretty nerdy, but he's generally spot on. Here he lays out how the Vikings can sign Hunter, Jefferson, Harrison Smith retires, etc. The Vikings are actually in VERY good shape with the cap in 2024 and EXCEPTIONALLY good shape with the cap in 2025.

 
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kg21

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Again, I'd highly recommend giving this a listen if any of you have 20-25 minutes. Braun is a pretty sharp cat, borderline pretty nerdy, but he's generally spot on. Here he lays out how the Vikings can sign Hunter, Jefferson, Harrison Smith retires, etc. The Vikings are actually in VERY good shape with the cap in 2024 and EXCEPTIONALLY good shape with the cap in 2025.

Yep, and if you sign JJ to a 7 year deal, lets say..........In 3 years it will seem like a steal.
 




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