All Things 2024 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

Ope3

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Well maybe there isn’t an example that fits such a strict definition, for drafted 2011 and later.

But it doesn’t have to be the same team that drafts the QB then signs him, to work for the overall point.

Example: Jimmy G. 2x Super Bowl champion

You can sign a FA QB, thus much more money than a rookie contract, and not even an MVP type guy, and it still be a successful, correct Super Bowl formula.
Jimmy G is an NFC Champion, not a SB Champion (as a starter).

Also was obtained initially via Trade from the Pats, not as a Free Agent, but yes there are various ways to procure talent at the QB position as well as all the other roster spots to reach the Super Bowl.
 
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MplsGopher

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Jimmy G is a 2 time NFC Champion, not a SB Champion (as a starter).

Also was obtained initially via Trade from the Pats, not as a Free Agent, but yes there are various ways to procure talent at the QB position as well as all the other roster spots to reach the Super Bowl.
Whoops, my bad. I read the Wikipedia profile and wrongly assumed that was with the 9ers.

Made it to the Super Bowl twice as a FA with the 9ers.


All agree Jimmy G is not some star. They paid well more than a rookie. They got to the Super Bowl.

Thus disproving the “there are two ways …” hypothesis.
 


kg21

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Whoops, my bad. I read the Wikipedia profile and wrongly assumed that was with the 9ers.

Made it to the Super Bowl twice as a FA with the 9ers.


All agree Jimmy G is not some star. They paid well more than a rookie. They got to the Super Bowl.

Thus disproving the “there are two ways …” hypothesis.
Mahomes is paid extremely well.

Purdy is paid very little.

It looks like there are two ways.
 


howeda7

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Mahomes is paid extremely well.

Purdy is paid very little.

It looks like there are two ways.
Both were drafted. Great QB's almost never become free agents.
 

forever a gopher

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Penix at #11. Or if you can get him farther back and pick up a couple more picks, great.

Learns two years behind Cousins. Starter in 26.

Done.


Next, let’s see how good we can get this team around Cousins in 24 and 25.

There’s just no damn reason we can’t do what the Lions did this year or the Rams did in 21. Cousins is easily as good as Stafford and Goff.
I would be shocked if Cousins agrees to a deal if they draft his heir apparent. My guess is he will require "assurances" they are not drafting a QB this year (and maybe even next) if he signs. If he signs here, he is all-in on a SB here, and won't want to deal with the drama of people calling for the backup when he struggles and/or getting constant questions about it. Additionally, that's a fair amount of draft and dollar capital tied up into a player that isn't playing when they could be spending it on ways to help today. Rodgers was pissed when they drafted Love. He was already signed to a long-term deal, so there wasn't much he could do. Cousins has the leverage in this situation and can dictate more.

Additionally, I would be very surprised if he needs to sign a 2-year deal. He will be 36 when next season starts, and that would have him hitting FA again at 38. My money is on him signing somewhere that either gives him big bucks (and fully guaranteed) over 2 years, or more likely, finding a team willing to give him a 3-year deal. At his age, years are probably more important than per year dollars.
 


forever a gopher

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Broncos signed Manning when he was 36 in 2012. Two Super Bowls, won one.

I don’t know what the money is or how it compares, especially in the different times with different caps.

Cousins injury is irrelevant. Won’t affect throwing ability at all, he was already a statue.
Peyton Manning signed a contract with him earning $19.2MM/year, equating to 15.9% of the salary cap. Cousins in 2023 earned $35MM/year, equating to 15.6% of the salary cap. The only difference? Peyton Manning is a hall of fame QB, and is a top 10 (likely higher) all time NFL QB.
 




Ogee Ogilthorpe

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I take sacks allowed with a grain of salt. KC, for instance, runs a lot of quick hitting screens and throws near the LOS. Mahomes air yards per attempt is extremely low. The Vikings run a lot of longer developing pass plays that make it harder to block.

And some Quarterbacks just plain hold the ball too long. Justin Fields apologists want to say he gets sacked so much because of a bad OL. Justin Fields holds the ball an eternity in the pocket because he can't remotely process what he's seeing and he's confused as hell. So Yes, no doubt, sacks from a QB perspective is not always an apples to apples comparison at all
 


GophersInIowa

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And some Quarterbacks just plain hold the ball too long. Justin Fields apologists want to say he gets sacked so much because of a bad OL. Justin Fields holds the ball an eternity in the pocket because he can't remotely process what he's seeing and he's confused as hell. So Yes, no doubt, sacks from a QB perspective is not always an apples to apples comparison at all
I think sometimes too he thinks he can make a play with his legs in just about every situation. Tries to do too much.
 




MplsGopher

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Both were drafted.
On the other hand, teams do make it to the SB using QB’s that they didn’t draft.

Indeed, there are many correct formulas that teams can attempt to deploy.
 

MplsGopher

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Peyton Manning signed a contract with him earning $19.2MM/year, equating to 15.9% of the salary cap. Cousins in 2023 earned $35MM/year, equating to 15.6% of the salary cap.
And the point being, $85M/2 = $42.5M/yr will be what percentage of when the cap goes up again?

The market is resetting. What doesn’t make sense today, easily could make sense for the near future.

The only difference? Peyton Manning is a hall of fame QB, and is a top 10 (likely higher) all time NFL QB.
For sure.

Cousins isn’t that good. But still could easily be good enough to get to the SB.

Jimmy G, Stafford, (almost) Goff
 

MplsGopher

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I would be shocked if Cousins agrees to a deal if they draft his heir apparent. My guess is he will require "assurances" they are not drafting a QB this year (and maybe even next) if he signs. If he signs here, he is all-in on a SB here, and won't want to deal with the drama of people calling for the backup when he struggles and/or getting constant questions about it.
This makes absolutely no sense and is the exact opposite of the actual personality of Cousins. I would encourage you to watch the Netflix special, if able.

Additionally, that's a fair amount of draft and dollar capital tied up into a player that isn't playing when they could be spending it on ways to help today.
For sure it’s purely a move that is an investment in the future.

That can pay of bigly.

I’d rather have (for example) Penix learn for two years and have success right away in 26, as opposed to being Justin Fields in 24.

Rodgers was pissed when they drafted Love. He was already signed to a long-term deal, so there wasn't much he could do.
If basing this hypothesis on Rodgers, a weirdo and a drama queen, then that is where you went wrong.

Additionally, I would be very surprised if he needs to sign a 2-year deal. He will be 36 when next season starts, and that would have him hitting FA again at 38. My money is on him signing somewhere that either gives him big bucks (and fully guaranteed) over 2 years, or more likely, finding a team willing to give him a 3-year deal. At his age, years are probably more important than per year dollars.
Well, we will see. This is of course a valid hypothesis. Maybe he thinks he can do like Manning and play another four years with two Super Bowl appearances from age 36.
 

JimmyJamesMD

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If I were GM, id pass on cousins, take the top De or DL available at 11, then try and trade back late in the first pennix, and sign ryan tannhelill for this season.

We haven't drafted a first round interior DLineman since 2014. Been neglected for too long
 

short ornery norwegian

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IF - and I say If - the game plan is to draft a rookie QB and have them learn behind Cousins for a year or two - then Penix or Nix may not be the guys you want. because of their lengthy college careers, Penix and Nix will each turn 24-yrs old before they enter the NFL.

If you're not planning on them being the starter for two years, then you're talking about a 26-year old QB as a 1st-time NFL starter.

If you're drafting a QB to start right away, then Penix and Nix make more sense. If you're drafting a QB with the idea that they're going to sit and learn for a couple of years, then you probably want a younger QB.
 

MplsGopher

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Jebus people are overthinking it.

If a guy starts at 26, and gives us six great years — that’s a massive win.

He’s 32.

Whooping friggin doo
 

short ornery norwegian

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oops - one more thing.

The Gopher Women's basketball team has offered a scholarship to Ari Peterson of Providence Academy HS. Peterson is an 8th grader averaging just under 12 points a game.

you may have heard of her father - some guy named Adrian Peterson. used to play football.

seriously - offering a scholarship to an 8th-grader. and of course, Providence Academy's star player is Maddyn Greenway, daughter of former Viking Chad Greenway, and there is a younger Greenway on the team as well.
 

kg21

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If I were GM, id pass on cousins, take the top De or DL available at 11, then try and trade back late in the first pennix, and sign ryan tannhelill for this season.

We haven't drafted a first round interior DLineman since 2014. Been neglected for too long
You'd then have a lot of extra money to get another defender with the savings on cousins contract.

Also, you'd probably get a 3rd round compensatory pick the next year for cousins.
 

Slim Tubby

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You'd then have a lot of extra money to get another defender with the savings on cousins contract.

Also, you'd probably get a 3rd round compensatory pick the next year for cousins.
Keep in mind that even if we part ways with Cousins, he still has $27M in Dead money that counts against our team Cap next year. That Dead money goes up to close to $50M if we let Hunter and Harry walk, too.
 

howeda7

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Peyton Manning signed a contract with him earning $19.2MM/year, equating to 15.9% of the salary cap. Cousins in 2023 earned $35MM/year, equating to 15.6% of the salary cap. The only difference? Peyton Manning is a hall of fame QB, and is a top 10 (likely higher) all time NFL QB.
I forget the exact %, but as of a couple years ago, no team that had a player earning over I think 16% or 17% of the salary cap had ever won a Super Bowl. I believe Mahomes has since done it, but the point remains that it's very difficult unless you're one of the 2-3 greatest QB's of all time.
 

howeda7

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Keep in mind that even if we part ways with Cousins, he still has $27M in Dead money that counts against our team Cap next year. That Dead money goes up to close to $50M if we let Hunter and Harry walk, too.
All the more reason to move on and make 2024 a reset year. They will have massive cap space for 2025 and can go right back to being all in. Keeping Cousins/Hunter just kicks the dead cap hit into 2026-27 etc. That's fine if you're all in for a Super Bowl but this team is not close to that.
 

howeda7

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IF - and I say If - the game plan is to draft a rookie QB and have them learn behind Cousins for a year or two - then Penix or Nix may not be the guys you want. because of their lengthy college careers, Penix and Nix will each turn 24-yrs old before they enter the NFL.

If you're not planning on them being the starter for two years, then you're talking about a 26-year old QB as a 1st-time NFL starter.

If you're drafting a QB to start right away, then Penix and Nix make more sense. If you're drafting a QB with the idea that they're going to sit and learn for a couple of years, then you probably want a younger QB.
I don't care about the age that much, but drafting a QB to sit him for 2/5 of the window where he's cheap doesn't make sense with the modern salary cap. Just because it sort of worked for the Packers with Jordan Love doesn't make it a good plan.
 

JimmyJamesMD

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All the more reason to move on and make 2024 a reset year. They will have massive cap space for 2025 and can go right back to being all in. Keeping Cousins/Hunter just kicks the dead cap hit into 2026-27 etc. That's fine if you're all in for a Super Bowl but this team is not close to that.
Vikings need to pay for their sins at some point. I agree with you. Just get it out the way.
 

MplsGopher

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I forget the exact %, but as of a couple years ago, no team that had a player earning over I think 16% or 17% of the salary cap had ever won a Super Bowl. I believe Mahomes has since done it, but the point remains that it's very difficult unless you're one of the 2-3 greatest QB's of all time.
How big is the total list of players in the last 30 years who earned >= 16% of the teams cap??

Your statement is like walking up a random boater at the boat show and proclaiming “hey, it’s really difficult to get a 100’ yacht up the Mississippi this far north. You’re not going to be able to do it unless you’re one of the 2-3 greatest yacht captains of all time. Just letting you know!”

…….neat
 


MplsGopher

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drafting a QB to sit him for 2/5 of the window where he's cheap doesn't make sense with the modern salary cap.
Yep, the Carolina Panthers have the winning formula! :ROFLMAO:

Following the path set by the Bears with Fields!
 




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