All Things 2024-25 Vikings Regular Season Thread


If it's a Jerry Rice type talent, sure. WR.
If it's Lawrence Taylor type talent, then Edger Rusher.
If it's Tom Brady type talent, then QB.
If it's Walter Payton type talent, then RB.

You rate WR and RB higher than I do in their level of importance to the team (and therefore the amount of cap space I would designate to the position), so we'll agree to disagree.

I'd certainly hesitate before committing to a league-best contract for a WR, even a great WR, when I'm not sure of my QB and my offensive line is a bit of a work in progress. A star receiver doesn't do me much good if my QB is scatter-armed, or if my passer is lying on his back because my o-line can't protect him. In those scenarios, my star receiver might be wide open in the end zone, but because he's not getting the ball it does me no good at all.

And I'd never pay a RB a league-best contract unless my offensive line was pretty damn solid and set to go. Even the best RBs need blocking.

But... edge rusher is one position we agree on.
 
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You rate WR and RB higher than I do in their level of importance to the team (and therefore the amount of cap space I would designate to the position), so we'll agree to disagree.

I'd certainly hesitate before committing to a league-best contract for a WR, even a great WR, when I'm not sure of my QB and my offensive line is a bit of a work in progress. A star receiver doesn't do me much good if my QB is scatter-armed, or if my passer is lying on his back because my o-line can't protect him. In those scenarios, my star receiver might be wide open in the end zone, but because he's not getting the ball it does me no good at all.

And I'd never pay a RB a league-best contract unless my offensive line was pretty damn solid and set to go. Even the best RBs need blocking.

But... edge rusher is one position we agree on.

My list is more about the players, than the position. If you get those types of all time greats, build around them.

It's not about deciding the position first. All won Super Bowls. All had other HoFers around them as well, including their Head Coaches. Coach Hoodie will get there. Iron Mike is in as a player.

Jefferson might be an All Timer in the Rice "class". Time will tell.
 

Having a hard time handicapping the Vikings-Bears matchup this weekend. Apparently, some of the pros thought Williams looked a lot better and freer in the first game under the new Bears OC. And the game is on the road, outdoors, hard to say just yet how that bodes for Darnold and the Vikings.

At the end of the day, I have a hard time believing that Flores will not make things incredibly difficult for Caleb Williams. The QBs who have looked good against the Vikings were Goff and Stafford, a couple of wily veterans who know how to get rid of the football quickly. Williams hangs on to the ball for an eternity.

I have to believe it helps Flores and the Vikings to have a least one game on tape to see how the offense for the Bears changed under the new OC.

I like the Vikings to win, not sure if I like them enough to take the -3.5 that seems to be out there at the moment?
 

And the game is on the road, outdoors, hard to say just yet how that bodes for Darnold and the Vikings.
What about Vikings on the road/outdoors is giving you pause?

They have already won 4 road games outdoors plus a neutral game.

2023 it was actually the Vikings record in the Zygi Dome that was atrocious.

Just in general, I don't think the Home Field matters as much as it used to. Any given NFL game seems to be 20-40% fans of the visitors, and I doubt Sunday will be any different. QBs seem to have perfected to the silent count. Maybe the earpiece in the helmets has helped too.

I'm not advising one way or another. A 50 degree forecast, dry, with moderate winds, just doesn't seem to that foreboding.
 


I'm not feeling it on Sunday. This has Darnold meltdown written all over it.
 

What about Vikings on the road/outdoors is giving you pause?

They have already won 4 road games outdoors plus a neutral game.

2023 it was actually the Vikings record in the Zygi Dome that was atrocious.

Just in general, I don't think the Home Field matters as much as it used to. Any given NFL game seems to be 20-40% fans of the visitors, and I doubt Sunday will be any different. QBs seem to have perfected to the silent count. Maybe the earpiece in the helmets has helped too.

I'm not advising one way or another. A 50 degree forecast, dry, with moderate winds, just doesn't seem to that foreboding.

Home field doesn't matter as much as it used to, absolutely. My hesitation was just a general rule of thumb, indoor teams struggling outdoors, particularly later in the season.

I'm not going to bet the game, and I don't like the -3.5 number anyway. I'd consider taking Vikings on the M/L if anything. I need the Vikings to win, this is probably the last winnable game for the Bears in the NFC North and I still have that pending bet of the Bears losing all 6 of their NFC North division games.

I like the Vikings to win. I don't have a lot of faith in Williams. He's a chump
 

Home field doesn't matter as much as it used to, absolutely. My hesitation was just a general rule of thumb, indoor teams struggling outdoors, particularly later in the season.

I'm not going to bet the game, and I don't like the -3.5 number anyway. I'd consider taking Vikings on the M/L if anything. I need the Vikings to win, this is probably the last winnable game for the Bears in the NFC North and I still have that pending bet of the Bears losing all 6 of their NFC North division games.

I like the Vikings to win. I don't have a lot of faith in Williams. He's a chump
It has all the feel of CHI 23 MIN 20 for me with Darnold crashing down to Earth lately. If the Purple pull this one out, I like your chances on the season long wager.
 




My list is more about the players, than the position. If you get those types of all time greats, build around them.

My approach is more about how to build a roster, and how the team you build works going forward.

Of all the players on the field, wide receivers might be the players who are most dependent on the scheme and the players around them. A great wide receiver needs someone to throw the ball to him, an offensive line to block for the QB, and a scheme that fits his talents. If any of those is missing, his talent is wasted.
 

My approach is more about how to build a roster, and how the team you build works going forward.

Of all the players on the field, wide receivers might be the players who are most dependent on the scheme and the players around them. A great wide receiver needs someone to throw the ball to him, an offensive line to block for the QB, and a scheme that fits his talents. If any of those is missing, his talent is wasted.
The Vikings are currently not wasting Jefferson's talent. They appear to have a plan to not waste his talent going forward.

Another analogy, in general a team does not build around an interior Defensive Lineman. If that DT though happens to be named Alan Page, then good things are bound to happen.
 


If it's a Jerry Rice type talent, sure. WR.
If it's Lawrence Taylor type talent, then Edger Rusher.
If it's Tom Brady type talent, then QB.
If it's Walter Payton type talent, then RB.
Maybe more of a question for everyone, if you're starting a team from scratch and could pick the best player at any position, what position would it be? What's the top 4 of 5?

Obviously QB is first. After that for me it's gotta be LT, edge rusher and CB.
 




The Vikes are 8-2 and I still don't trust them, especially on the road at CHI. Prove me wrong, Samuel.

"Vikings Football...it's the gift that keeps on giving all year long, Clark."

Honestly, to me it's all just gravy. I didn't expect them to do shit this year and I don't expect them to do shit in the playoffs. Losing Darrisaw was huge, no matter what Cam does filling in.

Another side note: Edge/OLB Gabe Murphy finally appears to be 100% healthy after a great training camp as an UDFA out of UCLA. Not sure if/how they make room for him but would love to see him get some time down the stretch. If it's hard for Turner to get time it will be hard for Murphy.

Who knew that Patrick Jones would kinda blow up in the final year of his rookie deal with 7 sacks in 10 games?
 


Honestly, to me it's all just gravy. I didn't expect them to do shit this year and I don't expect them to do shit in the playoffs. Losing Darrisaw was huge, no matter what Cam does filling in.

Another side note: Edge/OLB Gabe Murphy finally appears to be 100% healthy after a great training camp as an UDFA out of UCLA. Not sure if/how they make room for him but would love to see him get some time down the stretch. If it's hard for Turner to get time it will be hard for Murphy.

Who knew that Patrick Jones would kinda blow up in the final year of his rookie deal with 7 sacks in 10 games?
I've got a bad vibe about this game but this year has proven that we have one hell of a good coach in KOC.

What he's done with Darnold has to be a very positive omen for what he should be able to do developing McCarthy.
 


Jumping into the conversation about the wisdom of tying so much money into a WR, I'm going to first acknowledge that I defer to Ogee on this point, as he laid out quite some time ago how the way the Vikings have set up their salary structure allowed them to A) be able to pay JJ these top dollars; and B) Jefferson's extension will expire roughly around the same time as McCarthy's rookie deal expires, when Jefferson is either 28 or 29. At that point (quoting Ogee) it would be foolish to extend JJ at the price he would demand, assuming his production continues at the rate that he would be set up for such a second payday. In the meantime, the current team has caught lightning/mercury in the bottle with Darnold for one season and are (I'm guessing) hoping McCarthy is ready to roll next season. And there's a boatload of cap space available for the Vikings stepping into next season with their franchise receiver and left tackle wrapped up for the next four seasons.

Again, all that's already been laid out very well by Ogee, for quite some time. What I would add to the conversation is how extraordinary a talent we have in JJ, and I'm not just talking about the statistics that stake that claim. Consider that:
* He's 25 years old--he was an All-Pro at age 21, 22, and 23 (OPOY at 23).
* To this point, he's shown himself to be devoid of the WR diva syndrome that seems to infect just about every other elite wideout. Unless it's being hidden really well, he puts the team first.

When his contract expires, he'll either be 28 (the Vikings can opt out) or 29. Davante Adams was 30 when he got his big contract; Tyreek Hill was 28; AJ Brown, age 27, signed a three year extension this off season. Brandon Aiyuk is a year older than JJ and signed for 4 yrs, $120 this offseason; Ceedee Lamb is the same age and paid about the same as JJ with an aging and injured QB who has won two playoff games; DJ Moore for goodness sake is two years older than JJ, with a 4 yr, $110 extension inked this off-season.

My point is, JJ is an exception to the rule, or definitely has been to this point. If we were talking about Aiyuk or Moore, most definitely there would be reason to question the front office's judgment, but JJ has been a singular talent at the WR position and as stated in prior posts, a player who elevates the other talent on offense due to the attention that must be paid to him.

The final thing I'll say is that there's the opinion that a team doesn't need a high-end WR as long as they have a superstar quarterback in place. Tom Brady or current version of Patrick Mahomes are provided as examples--which of course, might be the two best QB's all-time when it's all said and done, but even then. . .
* Brady's early years were much more of a game manager type than a slinging, flinging QB--he won his first MVP when he was paired with Randy Moss and Wes Welker and on the backside of his career he had Rob Gronkowski until the end.
* Mahomes burst onto the scene with Tyreek Hill stretching the field and Travis Kelce as the best TE in the league.

Manning had Harrison and Wayne. Rodgers had Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, and Jordy Nelson at wideout when he stepped into the starting role. Favre had Sterling Sharpe. Matt Ryan had Roddy White. Joe Burrow took off in his second season when Jamar Chase was added. Aikman had Irvin. Montana and Young had Rice.

Okay, the final thought--for all the trials and tribulations that being a Vikings fan has entailed, there have been some standout to legendary pass catchers that have graced the uniform-Moss, Cris Carter, Anthony Carter, Ahmad Rashad, Sammy White, Stephon Diggs, Adam Thielen, and now JJ. We got very lucky that the Eagles chose Jalen Reagor with the draft pick acquired for Diggs. But do you remember that post-Moss, pre-Diggs/Thielen era (2005-14) where the likes of Travis Taylor, Marcus Robinson, Bobby Wade, one season of Sidney Rice, the mercurial Percy Harvin, Bernard Berrian, and a past his prime Greg Jennings were the leading pass catchers for the franchise? Those were bleak years, both from a record standpoint and an entertainment standpoint, save for the '09 Brett Favre swan song season.

Should your top paid player be a WR? In most cases, no. But these days, with few exceptions, a superior talent is needed at the position and when that player has placed himself in a historical context at age 25 tracking as one of the best wide receivers ever? And your front office has structured the team where ideally a QB on a rookie contract and a team with lots of cap space can correspond to the life of the contract to said superstar WR? In this case, it makes sense.
 

Jumping into the conversation about the wisdom of tying so much money into a WR, I'm going to first acknowledge that I defer to Ogee on this point, as he laid out quite some time ago how the way the Vikings have set up their salary structure allowed them to A) be able to pay JJ these top dollars; and B) Jefferson's extension will expire roughly around the same time as McCarthy's rookie deal expires, when Jefferson is either 28 or 29. At that point (quoting Ogee) it would be foolish to extend JJ at the price he would demand, assuming his production continues at the rate that he would be set up for such a second payday. In the meantime, the current team has caught lightning/mercury in the bottle with Darnold for one season and are (I'm guessing) hoping McCarthy is ready to roll next season. And there's a boatload of cap space available for the Vikings stepping into next season with their franchise receiver and left tackle wrapped up for the next four seasons.

Again, all that's already been laid out very well by Ogee, for quite some time. What I would add to the conversation is how extraordinary a talent we have in JJ, and I'm not just talking about the statistics that stake that claim. Consider that:
* He's 25 years old--he was an All-Pro at age 21, 22, and 23 (OPOY at 23).
* To this point, he's shown himself to be devoid of the WR diva syndrome that seems to infect just about every other elite wideout. Unless it's being hidden really well, he puts the team first.

When his contract expires, he'll either be 28 (the Vikings can opt out) or 29. Davante Adams was 30 when he got his big contract; Tyreek Hill was 28; AJ Brown, age 27, signed a three year extension this off season. Brandon Aiyuk is a year older than JJ and signed for 4 yrs, $120 this offseason; Ceedee Lamb is the same age and paid about the same as JJ with an aging and injured QB who has won two playoff games; DJ Moore for goodness sake is two years older than JJ, with a 4 yr, $110 extension inked this off-season.

My point is, JJ is an exception to the rule, or definitely has been to this point. If we were talking about Aiyuk or Moore, most definitely there would be reason to question the front office's judgment, but JJ has been a singular talent at the WR position and as stated in prior posts, a player who elevates the other talent on offense due to the attention that must be paid to him.

The final thing I'll say is that there's the opinion that a team doesn't need a high-end WR as long as they have a superstar quarterback in place. Tom Brady or current version of Patrick Mahomes are provided as examples--which of course, might be the two best QB's all-time when it's all said and done, but even then. . .
* Brady's early years were much more of a game manager type than a slinging, flinging QB--he won his first MVP when he was paired with Randy Moss and Wes Welker and on the backside of his career he had Rob Gronkowski until the end.
* Mahomes burst onto the scene with Tyreek Hill stretching the field and Travis Kelce as the best TE in the league.

Manning had Harrison and Wayne. Rodgers had Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, and Jordy Nelson at wideout when he stepped into the starting role. Favre had Sterling Sharpe. Matt Ryan had Roddy White. Joe Burrow took off in his second season when Jamar Chase was added. Aikman had Irvin. Montana and Young had Rice.

Okay, the final thought--for all the trials and tribulations that being a Vikings fan has entailed, there have been some standout to legendary pass catchers that have graced the uniform-Moss, Cris Carter, Anthony Carter, Ahmad Rashad, Sammy White, Stephon Diggs, Adam Thielen, and now JJ. We got very lucky that the Eagles chose Jalen Reagor with the draft pick acquired for Diggs. But do you remember that post-Moss, pre-Diggs/Thielen era (2005-14) where the likes of Travis Taylor, Marcus Robinson, Bobby Wade, one season of Sidney Rice, the mercurial Percy Harvin, Bernard Berrian, and a past his prime Greg Jennings were the leading pass catchers for the franchise? Those were bleak years, both from a record standpoint and an entertainment standpoint, save for the '09 Brett Favre swan song season.

Should your top paid player be a WR? In most cases, no. But these days, with few exceptions, a superior talent is needed at the position and when that player has placed himself in a historical context at age 25 tracking as one of the best wide receivers ever? And your front office has structured the team where ideally a QB on a rookie contract and a team with lots of cap space can correspond to the life of the contract to said superstar WR? In this case, it makes sense.
IMG_5122.jpeg
 

The Cowboys have a lost season and still won't throw Lance out there. Man, that was an epic-level bust. The NFL just can't help itself when it comes to measurables.
Lance played just 17 games in college against 0 FBS teams. He threw for more than 200 yards just 4 times. He played for a great team that rarely played from behind. Gotta see more than 17 games at a lower level IMO. This shouldn't be surprising.
 

Lance played just 17 games in college against 0 FBS teams. He threw for more than 200 yards just 4 times. He played for a great team that rarely played from behind. Gotta see more than 17 games at a lower level IMO. This shouldn't be surprising.

But, but, but.... He's tall! He has a Big Arm! He's a really good runner!
 

Jumping into the conversation about the wisdom of tying so much money into a WR, I'm going to first acknowledge that I defer to Ogee on this point, as he laid out quite some time ago how the way the Vikings have set up their salary structure allowed them to A) be able to pay JJ these top dollars; and B) Jefferson's extension will expire roughly around the same time as McCarthy's rookie deal expires, when Jefferson is either 28 or 29. At that point (quoting Ogee) it would be foolish to extend JJ at the price he would demand, assuming his production continues at the rate that he would be set up for such a second payday. In the meantime, the current team has caught lightning/mercury in the bottle with Darnold for one season and are (I'm guessing) hoping McCarthy is ready to roll next season. And there's a boatload of cap space available for the Vikings stepping into next season with their franchise receiver and left tackle wrapped up for the next four seasons.

Again, all that's already been laid out very well by Ogee, for quite some time. What I would add to the conversation is how extraordinary a talent we have in JJ, and I'm not just talking about the statistics that stake that claim. Consider that:
* He's 25 years old--he was an All-Pro at age 21, 22, and 23 (OPOY at 23).
* To this point, he's shown himself to be devoid of the WR diva syndrome that seems to infect just about every other elite wideout. Unless it's being hidden really well, he puts the team first.

When his contract expires, he'll either be 28 (the Vikings can opt out) or 29. Davante Adams was 30 when he got his big contract; Tyreek Hill was 28; AJ Brown, age 27, signed a three year extension this off season. Brandon Aiyuk is a year older than JJ and signed for 4 yrs, $120 this offseason; Ceedee Lamb is the same age and paid about the same as JJ with an aging and injured QB who has won two playoff games; DJ Moore for goodness sake is two years older than JJ, with a 4 yr, $110 extension inked this off-season.

My point is, JJ is an exception to the rule, or definitely has been to this point. If we were talking about Aiyuk or Moore, most definitely there would be reason to question the front office's judgment, but JJ has been a singular talent at the WR position and as stated in prior posts, a player who elevates the other talent on offense due to the attention that must be paid to him.

The final thing I'll say is that there's the opinion that a team doesn't need a high-end WR as long as they have a superstar quarterback in place. Tom Brady or current version of Patrick Mahomes are provided as examples--which of course, might be the two best QB's all-time when it's all said and done, but even then. . .
* Brady's early years were much more of a game manager type than a slinging, flinging QB--he won his first MVP when he was paired with Randy Moss and Wes Welker and on the backside of his career he had Rob Gronkowski until the end.
* Mahomes burst onto the scene with Tyreek Hill stretching the field and Travis Kelce as the best TE in the league.

Manning had Harrison and Wayne. Rodgers had Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, and Jordy Nelson at wideout when he stepped into the starting role. Favre had Sterling Sharpe. Matt Ryan had Roddy White. Joe Burrow took off in his second season when Jamar Chase was added. Aikman had Irvin. Montana and Young had Rice.

Okay, the final thought--for all the trials and tribulations that being a Vikings fan has entailed, there have been some standout to legendary pass catchers that have graced the uniform-Moss, Cris Carter, Anthony Carter, Ahmad Rashad, Sammy White, Stephon Diggs, Adam Thielen, and now JJ. We got very lucky that the Eagles chose Jalen Reagor with the draft pick acquired for Diggs. But do you remember that post-Moss, pre-Diggs/Thielen era (2005-14) where the likes of Travis Taylor, Marcus Robinson, Bobby Wade, one season of Sidney Rice, the mercurial Percy Harvin, Bernard Berrian, and a past his prime Greg Jennings were the leading pass catchers for the franchise? Those were bleak years, both from a record standpoint and an entertainment standpoint, save for the '09 Brett Favre swan song season.

Should your top paid player be a WR? In most cases, no. But these days, with few exceptions, a superior talent is needed at the position and when that player has placed himself in a historical context at age 25 tracking as one of the best wide receivers ever? And your front office has structured the team where ideally a QB on a rookie contract and a team with lots of cap space can correspond to the life of the contract to said superstar WR? In this case, it makes sense.

Full disclosure, most of my Vikings salary cap takes come directly from the Locked on Vikings podcast with Luke Braun; a very bright young guy that digs pretty deep into the weeds on some things, but I agree with him on a fair amount of it when it comes to how Kwesi has worked diligently to set things up moving forward.

As for the Jefferson situation, my own personal take is that KAM and the front office got a little lucky with the timing in that the decision to make the JJ extension fortunately came for them at a time when there weren't a lot of other pressing decisions for them to make, especially when they moved on from Cousins. I would have been fine if they didn't extend him, I was fine that they did, considering the state of the rebuild, the roster at the time and the cap.
 



Interesting data to ponder before Sunday’s tilt -

How these teams match up from data standpoint​

Here is where each team ranks in the following categories, using explosive play rate for explosiveness, success rate for efficiency and combined winning efficiency for strength of schedule:

VIKINGS
BEARS
Off turnovers28th4th
Def turnovers1st7th
Off efficiency13th21st
Def efficiency1st6th
Off explosiveness8th26th
Def explosiveness23rd31st
Strength of schedule13th30th
 




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