All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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forever a gopher said:
I was a Spielman fan for quite a while. I think his track record of drafting was generally pretty good, and he had a number of good FA signings. His biggest failure was at QB. He was the GM for 10 drafts, and the only QB's he drafted were Touchdown Teddy and Kellen Mond. The second biggest issue (IMO) was partially the Vikings organization's fault, and that was the fact that Spielman was seemingly being evaluated on a yearly basis the last few years, which led to many "win now" moves that they are now paying for. Add in the abhorrent defensive drafting over the past numerous years, and his fate was sealed. He did a good job for the first 2/3 of his tenure as GM, but it was more than time to go. So while I don't really have "Spielman hate", he also had no business keeping his job.

Here are the defensive players drafted in his last 3 drafts in rounds 4 or higher:

2021: Chazz Surratt (3), Patrick Jones (3), Cam Bynum (4), Janarius Robinson (4)
2020: Jeff Gladney (2), Cam Dantzler (3), DJ Wonnum (4)
2019: None (!)
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If you have a noisy, defensive guru as your head coach I'm guessing his evaluations were the deciding factor in these defensive selections?
 


mandatory practices next week. eyes will be watching to see who does or doesn't show up.

specifically Jefferson and Hunter. I read that Hunter forfeited a $100,000 workout bonus by not showing up for the voluntary workouts. must be nice to have so much money that you can p*ss away a hundred grand - and then turn around and complain that you're underpaid.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
mandatory practices next week. eyes will be watching to see who does or doesn't show up.

specifically Jefferson and Hunter. I read that Hunter forfeited a $100,000 workout bonus by not showing up for the voluntary workouts. must be nice to have so much money that you can p*ss away a hundred grand - and then turn around and complain that you're underpaid.
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Ha! Yeah, no kidding.

Gotta be more like SOP where you just won't show up to team functions if you're demanding a new contract.
 



KFAN talkers about how Diggs is upset in Buffalo. Suggested Hunter for Diggs straight up trade.

But then we don't have enough money to do that?? Gotta sign Jefferson and perhaps others?


It's not gonna happen, but was an interesting thought.


KJ Osborn is the clear #2 this year, in the Thielen role (both on the field and leadership in the room), and that's a good thing!
 

Gophers_4life said:
KFAN talkers about how Diggs is upset in Buffalo. Suggested Hunter for Diggs straight up trade.

But then we don't have enough money to do that?? Gotta sign Jefferson and perhaps others?


It's not gonna happen, but was an interesting thought.


KJ Osborn is the clear #2 this year, in the Thielen role (both on the field and leadership in the room), and that's a good thing!
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You'd lose your mind on that trade.
 

Gophers_4life said:
KFAN talkers about how Diggs is upset in Buffalo. Suggested Hunter for Diggs straight up trade.

But then we don't have enough money to do that?? Gotta sign Jefferson and perhaps others?


It's not gonna happen, but was an interesting thought.


KJ Osborn is the clear #2 this year, in the Thielen role (both on the field and leadership in the room), and that's a good thing!
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Osborn is definitely not the clear #2. Addison is replacing Thielen. Osborn will continue to play primarily in the slot.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Osborn is definitely not the clear #2. Addison is replacing Thielen. Osborn will continue to play primarily in the slot.
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Semantics. #2 can easily mean (and probably most would understand it as) that he's the #2 target on the field.

Hock may actually be that. That's fine too
 



Gophers_4life said:
Semantics. #2 can easily mean (and probably most would understand it as) that he's the #2 target on the field.

Hock may actually be that. That's fine too
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Even then I’m not so sure. Wouldn’t be surprised if Addison had more targets.
 


RE: trading Hunter means it's not a "competitive rebuild" anymore

Last year the defense really didn't do jack squat, and many times was detrimental, on the way to winning 13 games.

Hunter had some nice numbers, even though he was abhorently mis-used in a terrible scheme by a terrible DC. So there is the angle of seeing what he can do in Flores' system. But I don't really recall many (any?) times where Hunter made a huge impact on the game.


Our offense is largely the same. Possibly improved.

Defense didn't do jack, so it doesn't matter if they change a bunch of guys in a new system.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Maybe? He's a rookie. Will lightning strike twice? I guess we'll see
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I’m not sure lightning has to strike for that to be true. Jefferson and Hockenson will lead the team in targets so just a solid first year could put him 3rd.
 



GophersInIowa said:
I’m not sure lightning has to strike for that to be true. Jefferson and Hockenson will lead the team in targets so just a solid first year could put him 3rd.
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OK. We will see :cool:

You guys keep dogging on KJ. Can't wait for him to show out :)
 

Gophers_4life said:
KFAN talkers about how Diggs is upset in Buffalo. Suggested Hunter for Diggs straight up trade.

But then we don't have enough money to do that?? Gotta sign Jefferson and perhaps others?


It's not gonna happen, but was an interesting thought.


KJ Osborn is the clear #2 this year, in the Thielen role (both on the field and leadership in the room), and that's a good thing!
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Assuming both players are down with the trade, $$ can be restructured to make it happen. Not sure I see Diggs wanting to return though.
 


49ers get Hunter
Vikings get 2024 4th rounder and Trey Lance

Make the deal?

(GWG's spit comes flying out at his monitor in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...)
 





Getting out of Hunter's contract and his constant issues is valuable in of itself??

Defense can't get worse, from a team that won 13 games!!!
 

Gophers_4life said:
Getting out of Hunter's contract and his constant issues is valuable in of itself??

Defense can't get worse, from a team that won 13 games!!!
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His current contract is a bargain. He won't play under it. But it's not like he has a bad contract that has to be ditched. He's worth at least a 1st round pick. Or Lance + a 2nd. I'm in favor of trading him because I think he's partially wasted in a 3/4 and I don't think he'll play 17 games again.
 

howeda7 said:
His current contract is a bargain. He won't play under it. But it's not like he has a bad contract that has to be ditched.
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You're correct, let me try again:

Getting back $13M cap hit and away from his constant issues is valuable in of itself?? That money can go to other places.

howeda7 said:
He's worth at least a 1st round pick. Or Lance + a 2nd.
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Based on what?? He was really good in 2018 and 2019?

I really don't recall him dominating games last year. Yes, granted, was horrible mis-used in that abomination of a defensive scheme/no blitzing.

howeda7 said:
I'm in favor of trading him because I think he's partially wasted in a 3/4 and I don't think he'll play 17 games again.
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Agreed
 

Gophers_4life said:
You're correct, let me try again:

Getting back $13M cap hit and away from his constant issues is valuable in of itself?? That money can go to other places.
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Currently they would LOSE cap space trading him. Even if he restructures, the 2023 savings would be minimal. Obviously it frees up 2024 space.

Gophers_4life said:
Based on what?? He was really good in 2018 and 2019?
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He's been good every year he's been healthy, including last year, just muted due to scheme.
 

howeda7 said:
Currently they would LOSE cap space trading him. Even if he restructures, the 2023 savings would be minimal. Obviously it frees up 2024 space.
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My bad, but it is still a savings. You're looking at pre 6/1 numbers.

Post 6/1 trade is:
2023 - $7.6M dead, $5.5M savings
2024 - $11.2M dead

So probably aren't going to do a trade without a restructure.

howeda7 said:
He's been good every year he's been healthy, including last year, just muted due to scheme.
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Again, disagree that last year, even in the scheme, he was dominate. I don't remember it, like it was in the good ol days.

You're trying to be his agent, in order to force a 1st. :cool:
 

Gophers_4life said:
My bad, but it is still a savings. You're looking at pre 6/1 numbers.

Post 6/1 trade is:
2023 - $7.6M dead, $5.5M savings
2024 - $11.2M dead

So probably aren't going to do a trade without a restructure.


Again, disagree that last year, even in the scheme, he was dominate. I don't remember it, like it was in the good ol days.

You're trying to be his agent, in order to force a 1st. :cool:
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"Dominant" is subjective. 10.5 sacks is not.
 


The point of why having a dominate Edge sack master is so valuable, is that other teams have to account for the guy when he's on the field and they're trying to do a dropback pass. The ability to limit the plays the opposing OC is even willing to call, because he can't risk the sack.

That wasn't Hunter in 2022. Probably not anyone on the Vikings defense, other than perhaps Z earlier in the year.

We didn't blitz. We didn't pressure. We let opposing offenses do whatever they wanted.
 


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