All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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RememberMurray said:
I never said RB was a higher priority that WR. I said WR was slightly ahead of RB. Read it again, you'll see.

Sheesh.

Position priority for most NFL teams, when building a team:

1) QB
2) Blind side offensive tackle
3) Rush end

And WR is maybe priority #4. Maybe.

Check it out. See if that's true.
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Read my first paragraph. I understood you just fine.

You are right about the top 4 positions, not necessarily in that order though, which is where you're failing.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
Read my first paragraph. I understood you just fine.

You are right about the top 4 positions, not necessarily in that order though, which is where you're failing.
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Well, y'know...

I suppose everybody could be a little more self-aware. We should all pay more attention to our own failings.

Right?
 
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
Was Captain Crunch on sale?
Your sugar high seems preposterously long.
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Hey, thanks for joining me here for yet another day of this. If you like, I'll try to refrain from attempts at personal jibes, and stick to the topic. But... you be you.
 

RememberMurray said:
Thanks for joining me here for yet another day of this. If you like, I'll try to refrain from attempts at personal jibes, and stick to the topic. But... you be you.
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I’m done with it, but carry on if you so desire; I have bucket brains from watching Ms. Clark, the female Larry Bird, dominate in FF female semis last night and the men on tap today.

Good natured ribbing, is an indicator of a friend not a foe or fiend 😉
 


Gopher_In_NYC said:
I’m done with it, but carry on if you so desire; I have bucket brains from watching Ms. Clark, the female Larry Bird, dominate in FF female semis last night and the men on tap today.

Good natured ribbing, is an indicator of a friend not a for or fiend 😉
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I agree. And, yeah... we may have exhausted this topic, to say the least.

I am, like you, inspired by Clark and the Hawkeyes. I think that this could be a pivotal moment for women's sports in the Midwest. Really amazing. For mothers, wives, sisters and daughters... a beautiful thing to see, long overdue.
 

howeda7 said:
I think you're hung up on the "highest paid non-QB" part too much. Yes he will be. For 5 minutes until the next guy comes along.
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Also it doesn't matter if you have a QB on rookie contract.

Also the cap is going to be expanded in the coming years.
 

RememberMurray said:
How about the Eagles in 2018? You gonna back up your Brinks truck for Nelson Agholor if he tells you he wants a huge payday? Or was the elite Nick Foles the straw that stirred the drink on that team?
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Comparing Agholor 2015-2017 to JJ 2020-2022?

Come on ...
 

Gophers_4life said:
Comparing Agholor 2015-2017 to JJ 2020-2022?

Come on ...
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A claim was made that teams usually need an elite receiver to win the Super Bowl.
I used the Eagles and Agholor as an example that refutes the claim. The Eagles won the trophy without an elite receiver.

Follow?
 




howeda7 said:
I believe that teams should abide the "no one over 15% of the cap rule" if possible. They can easily do that with Jefferson if they structure it correctly.
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He wants to be the highest-paid non-QB in NFL history.

Do you think the team can make him the highest-paid non-QB in NFL history and still keep him under the 15% of the cap threshold?
 


Murray, with all due respect, you have to look at the whole picture. If a team has a top-5 or top-10 defense, they can theoretically win w/o a great QB or WR. But if you don't have a great defense, then you need to score more points to win - and in today's game, that means you need the QB and WR to perform at a higher level.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
Murray, with all due respect, you have to look at the whole picture. If a team has a top-5 or top-10 defense, they can theoretically win w/o a great QB or WR. But if you don't have a great defense, then you need to score more points to win - and in today's game, that means you need the QB and WR to perform at a higher level.
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Which is why we're dumping Kirk Cousins... to clear cap space to add to our defense. And if we trade JJ for draft picks, we'll have even more capital with which to build the team. As opposed to dumping Cousins to clear cap space so that we can turn around and hand it to JJ.

More cap space and more draft picks. That's my plan for building the team, which is in fact based on looking at the whole picture, and not just satisfying one star receiver.

But we're all beginning to repeat ourselves, and I must be doing a piss-poor job of explaining my side because people keep bringing up the same arguments over and over.

This is the gist: You guys value one WR more than I do. Much, much more. Let's leave it at that. And at any rate, the team probably won't trade JJ anyway, so you all have nothing to fret about.

I'll be watching to see how the actual team plan works out.
 
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short ornery norwegian said:
Murray, with all due respect, you have to look at the whole picture. If a team has a top-5 or top-10 defense, they can theoretically win w/o a great QB or WR. But if you don't have a great defense, then you need to score more points to win - and in today's game, that means you need the QB and WR to perform at a higher level.
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That’s not gonna work with Murray
 

7Gopher7 said:
That’s not gonna work with Murray
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Last season the Vikings had the receiver you're ga-ga over, the guy you all want to break the bank for. The team had a decent but not great veteran, durable QB throwing to him. They fielded a putrid defense. They had an unprecedented string of miracle wins at the gun. Add that up, and you got a great regular season record and a division title along with a first round playoff exit.

Next year: apparently, the same plan. Second verse, same as the first. Hope for better ending.

2024: Dump Cousins in order to pay JJ the big bucks. Draft a rookie QB to throw to your superstar. Same putrid defense. Cross fingers. Hope for better finish.

Sounds great, man. Wish I would have thought of that!
 

1) You dump Cousins to clear cap space and get rid of his boat anchor contract.

2) Now turn to your right and you hand JJ the boat anchor contract.

3) You draft a rookie QB.

Net result: you have a rookie QB instead of a solid, durable veteran throwing to your most expensive asset. You still have the boat anchor contract holding you down, you simply transferred it from your QB to a WR. A... wide... receiver.

You didn't add any draft picks. You didn't free any net cap space. And your defense is still pathetic and sad.

General Manager of the Year, baby!
 



RememberMurray said:
Last season the Vikings had the receiver you're ga-ga over, the guy you all want to break the bank for. The team had a decent but not great veteran, durable QB throwing to him. They fielded a putrid defense. They had an unprecedented string of miracle wins at the gun. Add that up, and you got a great regular season record and a division title along with a first round playoff exit.

Next year: apparently, the same plan. Second verse, same as the first. Hope for better ending.

2024: Dump Cousins in order to pay JJ the big bucks. Draft a rookie QB to throw to your superstar. Same putrid defense. Cross fingers. Hope for better finish.

Sounds great, man. Wish I would have thought of that!
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They fielded a putrid defense, because since Danielle Hunter was drafted nine years ago, the best defender they have drafted is Trae Waynes. It's comical and hilarious. They haven't drafted one damn good defender in 9 years. The drafting on defense has been hideous and pitiful. That is your problem. You and I could have thrown darts at a draft board and done 10 times better.

Oh, and Zimmer was in on drafting them. You can't always trust the coaches.
 
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kg21 said:
They fielded a putrid defense, because since Danielle Hunter was drafted nine years ago, the best defender they have drafted is Trae Waynes. It's comical and hilarious. They haven't drafted one damn good defender in 9 years. The drafting on defense has been hideous and pitiful. That is your problem. You and I could have thrown darts at a draft board and done 10 times better.

Oh, and Zimmer was in on drafting them. You can't always trust the coaches.
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Okay, you convinced me.

I'll never trust a coach again, ever.

Problem solved!
 

RememberMurray said:
Which is why we're dumping Kirk Cousins... to clear cap space to add to our defense. And if we trade JJ for draft picks, we'll have even more capital with which to build the team. As opposed to dumping Cousins to clear cap space so that we can turn around and hand it to JJ.

More cap space and more draft picks. That's my plan for building the team, which is in fact based on looking at the whole picture, and not just satisfying one star receiver.

But we're all beginning to repeat ourselves, and I must be doing a piss-poor job of explaining my side because people keep bringing up the same arguments over and over.

This is the gist: You guys value one WR more than I do. Much, much more. Let's leave it at that. And at any rate, the team probably won't trade JJ anyway, so you all have nothing to fret about.

I'll be watching to see how the actual team plan works out.
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We're not dumping Cousins to "give to to JJ" or fix the defense. We're dumping Cousins because Kwesi/O'Connell have decided he's not worth $35-40 million dollars and they can't win a Super Bowl with him.
 

RememberMurray said:
Last season the Vikings had the receiver you're ga-ga over, the guy you all want to break the bank for. The team had a decent but not great veteran, durable QB throwing to him. They fielded a putrid defense. They had an unprecedented string of miracle wins at the gun. Add that up, and you got a great regular season record and a division title along with a first round playoff exit.

Next year: apparently, the same plan. Second verse, same as the first. Hope for better ending.

2024: Dump Cousins in order to pay JJ the big bucks. Draft a rookie QB to throw to your superstar. Same putrid defense. Cross fingers. Hope for better finish.

Sounds great, man. Wish I would have thought of that!
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You're insisting on correlating things that aren't correlated. The defense was putrid because it had a lot aging, expensive veterans from the last coach/GM who signed them past their prime. They are now being purged. None of that has anything to do with Justin Jefferson. Nor will getting 2 first round picks for JJ and spending at least one of them on a WR to replace JJ magically fix the defense.
 

howeda7 said:
We're not dumping Cousins to "give to to JJ" or fix the defense. We're dumping Cousins because Kwesi/O'Connell have decided he's not worth $35-40 million dollars and they can't win a Super Bowl with him.
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Captain Curt is who he is and there’s nothing wrong with that - he’s a competent to good NFL starter (whose been solid for us and produced some memorable moments), but he’s also 35 (when next season commences) not 25 and at some point, one of the two scenarios will occur: the production will drop precipitously or he’ll suffer a hellacious injury. As Bellichek has show, you gotta know when to let them go and replace them.
 

howeda7 said:
You're insisting on correlating things that aren't correlated. The defense was putrid because it had a lot aging, expensive veterans from the last coach/GM who signed them past their prime. They are now being purged. None of that has anything to do with Justin Jefferson. Nor will getting 2 first round picks for JJ and spending at least one of them on a WR to replace JJ magically fix the defense.
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Lots of people explaining to me why the defense is bad, and/or how it came to be bad.

None of those people are making an honest attempt to explain how it will get fixed, especially while the team is paying JJ this huge contract.

You're planning on spending at least one very high, top draft choice on a QB to replace Cousins — and realistically maybe more than one because you may need to trade up to get the right QB. That drains your draft ammunition. And with JJ's new mega contract, I don't see how you'll have much cap space to sign free agents.

So without much cap space and with no extra, added draft picks, how are you going to fix the other holes this team has? Oh, I forgot: you said "wait and see" on the defense. That could work.
 
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howeda7 said:
We're not dumping Cousins to "give to to JJ" or fix the defense. We're dumping Cousins because Kwesi/O'Connell have decided he's not worth $35-40 million dollars and they can't win a Super Bowl with him.
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I could've told them that before they did the last extension. :(
 



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