All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
He's a defensive coach and he took over the worst defense in the NFL his first season, and they have been top 5 the last two seasons.

He hasn't had a QB since he's been there, and deserves a shot with a real one. The Jets would be a playoff team if Rodgers was healthy, just like the Vikings would be if Cousins was healthy.
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I might be looking at different websites, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that the Jets are all that proficient on Defense at all? I know that's the generally accepted narrative out there, Saleh is a defensive coach and the Jets have this vaunted defense, but watching the games, their defense ain't that good.

He's got one heck of a marketing campaign behind him, the "worldwide leader" has been hyping him for a while (along with Justin Fields as a league MVP candidate earlier this year), but the results have been crap. And honestly, the presser he had a few weeks back and his "I plead the Fifth" comment, throwing his OC under the bus if I recall correctly, would have been a fireable offense right there in my opinion.
 



Ope3 said:
My completely superficial take is if the KOC regime had more faith in Mullens to be the backup against Vegas and the starter the past 2 weeks, then they must regard Hall as a real project.
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Your logic is sound
 



Ope3 said:
My completely superficial take is if the KOC regime had more faith in Mullens to be the backup against Vegas and the starter the past 2 weeks, then they must regard Hall as a real project.
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IF Mullens gives the best chance to beat Green Bay, then he should start and play the entire game.

No other factor should be taken into consideration.
 


MplsGopher said:
IF Mullens gives the best chance to beat Green Bay, then he should start and play the entire game.

No other factor should be taken into consideration.
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I agree, unless results from earlier games played eliminate the Purple or they need some wild combination of outcomes to make it to the playoffs.
 



Ope3 said:
I agree, unless results from earlier games played eliminate the Purple or they need some wild combination of outcomes to make it to the playoffs.
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Nope. Those don't matter either.

Beating the Packers = objectively correct no matter what.
Beating the Lions = objectively correct no matter what.


There is no possible benefit to losing.
 

Trying to cheat your way to a better overall outcome by purposefully losing, is the worst sin that exists in sports.

Worse than trying to cheat your way to winning.
 

MplsGopher said:
Nope. Those don't matter either.

Beating the Packers = objectively correct no matter what.
Beating the Lions = objectively correct no matter what.


There is no possible benefit to losing.
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If completely eliminated, I can see benefits in playing backups.

They are obvious.

The backups should be going all out to win.
 

This isn't college. Our starters don't graduate. Backups are backups for a reason.

Play to win.
 



MplsGopher said:
This isn't college. Our starters don't graduate. Backups are backups for a reason.

Play to win.
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Starters do leave in free agency or for cap reasons. Josh Metellus was a back up. So was Ty Chandler.

They are still in the playoff hunt and it’s the Packers so should play to win.
 

Ope3 said:
I agree, unless results from earlier games played eliminate the Purple or they need some wild combination of outcomes to make it to the playoffs.
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There are no outcomes that can eliminate the Vikings by Sunday night. They only need the Rams OR Seahawks to lose once in the last two weeks and the Rams play the Niners in week 18.
 

GFBfan said:
Starters do leave in free agency or for cap reasons. Josh Metellus was a back up. So was Ty Chandler.
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Those two didn't become good because they got to start in a throw away game.
 

MplsGopher said:
This isn't college. Our starters don't graduate. Backups are backups for a reason.

Play to win.
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Preservation of health for the starters can be a benefit for sitting them, especially if they are already hurt this late in the season.

Talent evaluation can also be a benefit.
 


MplsGopher said:
Preserve for what? Your condition was we have nothing to play for.


Not valid to do this in a game that counts. Preseason, sure.
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The health preservation and talent evaluation comments I was referring more to the Week 18 game vs the Lions from your comment below, especially if they also need both/either the Seahawks to lose to the Cardinals, Rams lose to the 49ers (if they don't have anything to play for).

OR if if the Vikings Lose/Tie to the Packers yet still somehow remain mathematically alive with a bazar set results needed in Week 18, I can see an argument to be made for sitting some starters.

Maybe the Vikings are completely eliminated regardless if they lose to the Packers? I'm not sure and not really inquisitive enough to care how the tiebreakers would fall in such a situation.

MplsGopher said:
Nope. Those don't matter either.

Beating the Packers = objectively correct no matter what.
Beating the Lions = objectively correct no matter what.


There is no possible benefit to losing.
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Ope3 said:
The health preservation and talent evaluation comments I was referring more to the Week 18 game vs the Lions from your comment below, especially if they also need both/either the Seahawks to lose to the Cardinals, Rams lose to the 49ers (if they don't have anything to play for).

OR if if the Vikings Lose/Tie to the Packers yet still somehow remain mathematically alive with a bazar set results needed in Week 18, I can see an argument to be made for sitting some starters.
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You lost me.

We're still alive for the playoff, but we can't possibly make it in if we don't beat the Lions .... therefore, rest the starters???
 

Ope3 said:
My completely superficial take is if the KOC regime had more faith in Mullens to be the backup against Vegas and the starter the past 2 weeks, then they must regard Hall as a real project.
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Mullens has been an infinitely greater turnover machine than I had ever expected, or remember from his earlier starts in his career. Wowzers. There is a case to be made that KOC could go with Hall merely for the sake of potentially protecting the ball better than Mullens.

The Vikings issues on turnovers have been there all season, from Week 1. I think they are 30th in Giveaways if I recall a recent podcast correctly. That is arguably the SOLE reason they did not win the North and are fighting for their playoff lives.
 

MplsGopher said:
You lost me.

We're still alive for the playoff, but we can't possibly make it in if we don't beat the Lions .... therefore, rest the starters???
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I'm saying if Vikings Tied or Lost to the Packers but were still mathematically alive for a Playoff berth by beating the Lions and needing all or multiple of these things to happen:

- Packers loss to Bears
- Rams loss to 49ers
- Seahawks loss to Cardinals
- Specific result(s) with the NFC South teams alive (Saints, Bucs & Falcons)

If they need so much help, then resting starters could be the prudent decision.

Going all out is fine too. The 2022 Lions still played to win in the Season Finale against the Packers with jack squat to play for, perhaps it was a good building block. The Vikings circumstances are a bit different though, having more recent success and their #1 QB on the shelf already.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Mullens has been an infinitely greater turnover machine than I had ever expected, or remember from his earlier starts in his career. Wowzers. There is a case to be made that KOC could go with Hall merely for the sake of potentially protecting the ball better than Mullens.

The Vikings issues on turnovers have been there all season, from Week 1. I think they are 30th in Giveaways if I recall a recent podcast correctly. That is arguably the SOLE reason they did not win the North and are fighting for their playoff lives.
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Some of the Mullens TOs are obviously poor decisions. They may also be physical limitations/conditioning from his injury that required Dobbs to be signed in the first place.

No idea. Just throwing it out there (like Mullens).
 

Ope3 said:
I'm saying if Vikings Tied or Lost to the Packers but were still mathematically alive for a Playoff berth by beating the Lions and needing all or multiple of these things to happen:

- Packers loss to Bears
- Rams loss to 49ers
- Seahawks loss to Cardinals
- Specific result(s) with the NFC South teams alive (Saints, Bucs & Falcons)

If they need so much help, then resting starters could be the prudent decision.
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You can't possibly make it in if you lose the Lions game.

I can't see any possible valid logic for doing anything less than trying as hard as you can to win.

Ope3 said:
Going all out is fine too. The 2022 Lions still played to win in the Season Finale against the Packers with jack squat to play for, perhaps it was a good building block. The Vikings circumstances are a bit different though, having more recent success and their #1 QB on the shelf already.
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It's either the last game of the season, or they go on the road to play one more.

There is nothing to preserve.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
I might be looking at different websites, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that the Jets are all that proficient on Defense at all? I know that's the generally accepted narrative out there, Saleh is a defensive coach and the Jets have this vaunted defense, but watching the games, their defense ain't that good.

He's got one heck of a marketing campaign behind him, the "worldwide leader" has been hyping him for a while (along with Justin Fields as a league MVP candidate earlier this year), but the results have been crap. And honestly, the presser he had a few weeks back and his "I plead the Fifth" comment, throwing his OC under the bus if I recall correctly, would have been a fireable offense right there in my opinion.
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Their D is 3rd in yards allowed this season, and were 5th last season after being dead last in Saleh's first season. And that's with having the worst offense in the NFL this season and the 25th ranked offense last season.

Their defense is constantly on the field, yet remains one of the best in the NFL which has been a huge shift from year 1 to year 3 under Saleh. Even an average NFL QB completely changes that team.
 

MplsGopher said:
You can't possibly make it in if you lose the Lions game.

I can't see any possible valid logic for doing anything less than trying as hard as you can to win.


It's either the last game of the season, or they go on the road to play one more.

There is nothing to preserve.
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I am saying if Vikings need to win the Lions game AND need 3-5 other things (some unlikely) to happen, Going All Out may not be prudent.

Some injuries can take more than 8 months to recover from.
 




MplsGopher said:
IF Mullens gives the best chance to beat Green Bay, then he should start and play the entire game.

No other factor should be taken into consideration.
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Apparently Hall gives us the best chance.

Could you explain this for us?
 

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