All Things 2023 Minnesota Twins In-Season Thread

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Gray made those comments about nobody being happy with being pulled after 4 or 5 innings this spring. Rocco is all like “hold my beer”. You have to let the starters battle. This is ridiculous
 



Sox and Guardians about to both win and gain a game back.

So halfway through this 6 game stretch of a adventagous schedule. We will be +1 on Cleveland and even with Chicago.

Thanks Rocco.
 

From the Parkinglot said:

Those two sentences seem to contradict each other.
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Rocco just has a blind spot in this area of coaching. He doesn't see what everyone else sees.

Kevin OConnell to me seems like such a genius in understanding his players and getting his players in the best frame of mind to succeed.
Tonight was not that. Just can't do that to one of the best pitchers in the league.

Rocco will doggedly keep faith in batters who have extended batting slumps. For some reason that faith doesn't extend to Sonny Gray.
 
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MUgopher32 said:
Sox and Guardians about to both win and gain a game back.

So halfway through this 6 game stretch of a adventagous schedule. We will be +1 on Cleveland and even with Chicago.

Thanks Rocco.
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NVM white sox choked.

But still only+1. Should be +2 on both.
 

MUgopher32 said:
Rocco is fucking pathetic. Get this piece of shit out of our dugout. He cant fucking do it.

This is why we struggle to get winning streaks going. We are coached but an utter buffoon.

Gray wasnt sharp today but pulling him is absolutely inexcusable and cannot be defended. We are in a stretch of 16 games in a row. So go to your pen in the 5th? With your only lefty? Pulll your starter against the guys he was getting out??

This why we find ourselves with Emilio Pagan pitching in key situations. Hes a fucking awful game manager and it hurts us down the line if not in the present.
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You have to at least let Gray start the 5th. Inexcusable and you not only bumbled your way to a loss, you pissed off one of your best pitchers and team leaders. Would love to see what Toby Gardenhire could do with this team.
 


7Gopher7 said:
Gray made those comments about nobody being happy with being pulled after 4 or 5 innings this spring. Rocco is all like “hold my beer”. You have to let the starters battle. This is ridiculous
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Rocco has already allowed starters to pitch 6 innings more this year than all of last year. I would have let Gray pitch another inning but he would have never made it to 6 anyways. He was very erratic last night, and has been that way more often that not lately.

Moran also probably gets out of that inning if Lewis didn't make another terrible throw from 3rd. I can't believe they actually ruled it an infield single. He makes that throw and there's 2 outs with nobody on.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Rocco has already allowed starters to pitch 6 innings more this year than all of last year. I would have let Gray pitch another inning but he would have never made it to 6 anyways. He was very erratic last night, and has been that way more often that not lately.

Moran also probably gets out of that inning if Lewis didn't make another terrible throw from 3rd. I can't believe they actually ruled it an infield single. He makes that throw and there's 2 outs with nobody on.
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Oh yeah zero chance Gray was going 6 he didnt need to though. The difference between 4 and 5 innings is huge.

It wasnt even just about this game. Even if Moran doesnt blow it. We are now asking for 5 innings from our pen in a long stretch of no off days. And under the scenario that we win, it also requires Jax/Duran to be used along with key middle relievers.

If Rocco is gonna pull starters like today we have to get bullpen help. Really we need it regardless but you cant have both. 4 inning 2 run starts and a bullpen with only 3 options.
 

howeda7 said:
You have to at least let Gray start the 5th. Inexcusable and you not only bumbled your way to a loss, you pissed off one of your best pitchers and team leaders. Would love to see what Toby Gardenhire could do with this team.
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What makes you think it would be any different with Gardenhire if he was given the same marching orders and spreadsheets provided by Falvey/Levine & company?
 

Ope3 said:
What makes you think it would be any different with Gardenhire if he was given the same marching orders and spreadsheets provided by Falvey/Levine & company?
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Fair. I want Falvey gone too, but that's not happening mid-season.

At the very least it wouldn't be any worse with Toby. Rocco does have some autonomy. Pulling Gray was his call. The insane amount of pitch hitting is ultimately his call.
 

It's about process, not the outcome. Moran could've had an immaculate inning and would still have been the wrong call by Rocco.

Rocco is too much analytics. Although will give him credit as it seems like he's bunting and stealing more this season than in the past.
 
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howeda7 said:
Fair. I want Falvey gone too, but that's not happening mid-season.

At the very least it wouldn't be any worse with Toby. Rocco does have some autonomy. Pulling Gray was his call. The insane amount of pitch hitting is ultimately his call.
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I wish we had an insane amount of pitch hitting.
 

golf said:
It's about process, not the outcome. Moran could've had an immaculate inning and would still have been the wrong call by Rocco.

Rocco is too much analytics. Although will give him credit as it seems like he's bunting and stealing more this season than in the past.
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Correct. Bad decisions are bad decisions its not about hindsight.

Pinch hitting Kepler for Royce a few nights ago was god awful. Even though in hindsight Kep drew a walk at least and you could argue even though we didnt score we turned the lineup over enough for that amazing 9th to win.

It was still a moronic ass decision.
 

howeda7 said:
Fair. I want Falvey gone too, but that's not happening mid-season.

At the very least it wouldn't be any worse with Toby. Rocco does have some autonomy. Pulling Gray was his call. The insane amount of pitch hitting is ultimately his call.
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Also fair, but in general I think a large percentage of decisions would be the same. Maybe it would make a difference here or there, good and bad, but not beyond a couple of games in the W/L column.

With the Gray situation, personally as others suggested I would have like to see him go out for the 5th. However, if he would have let the lead off guy on via walk or hit, for sure he would have gotten yanked. Now the reliever is coming in with even less margin for error, so I get the philosophy, but net result could have been exactly identical...a loss.

As far as last night specifically, I had more of a problem letting Lopez go out for the 9th after a scoreless 8th. Down 1 it was still in reach. Heading to the bottom of the 9th it was game over. That's the one in my car I was screaming WTF at my steering wheel.
 

MUgopher32 said:
Correct. Bad decisions are bad decisions its not about hindsight.

Pinch hitting Kepler for Royce a few nights ago was god awful. Even though in hindsight Kep drew a walk at least and you could argue even though we didnt score we turned the lineup over enough for that amazing 9th to win.

It was still a moronic ass decision.
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Last night batting Kepler over Solano even against a right hander made no sense. Solano has better numbers against righties than Kepler does this year.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Last night batting Kepler over Solano even against a right hander made no sense. Solano has better numbers against righties than Kepler does this year.
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That an Solano objectively has been one of our top 3 hitters for a while now. And now that hes actually hit a couple homers recently to add some pop to the singles.

Just insane.

Solano also walks way more.

So leading off an inning Correa on deck. You literally want that guy to get on base. It was inexcusable.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Last night batting Kepler over Solano even against a right hander made no sense. Solano has better numbers against righties than Kepler does this year.
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They are massively over-doing it on platooning and PH'ing. Platoon CF between Taylor and Castro. Sit either Gallo or Kepler for Salano against LH. Platoon Farmer/Julien at 2B. PH for Vazquez whenever possible. Beyond that, leave well enough alone.
 

I'd like to see the following line-ups given some consistency.

Against RH

1 Julien 2B
2 Castro CF
3 Correa SS
4 Kiriloff LF/1B
5 Lewis 3B
6 Gallo 1B/LF
7. Buxton DH (he needs to be lower until he starts hitting)
8. Kepler (should be Larnach)
9. Jeffers/Vazquez

Against LH

1. Salano 1B
2. Castro LF
3. Correa SS
4. Kiriloff LF
5. Lewis 3B
6. Farmer 2B
7. Buxton DH
8. Jeffers C
9. Taylor CF
 

howeda7 said:
I'd like to see the following line-ups given some consistency.

Against RH

1 Julien 2B
2 Castro CF
3 Correa SS
4 Kiriloff LF/1B
5 Lewis 3B
6 Gallo 1B/LF
7. Buxton DH (he needs to be lower until he starts hitting)
8. Kepler (should be Larnach)
9. Jeffers/Vazquez

Against LH

1. Salano 1B
2. Castro LF
3. Correa SS
4. Kiriloff LF
5. Lewis 3B
6. Farmer 2B
7. Buxton DH
8. Jeffers C
9. Taylor CF
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I was pleased to have Buxton back but he needs to figure it the fuck out. Its getting embarrassing

You cannot be a DH who cant hit. He is quite literally no exaggeration the worst hitter in baseball with RISP over the last two seasons of anyone with any sort of substantional ABs.

At some point you have to get some fucking pride and get better or get his ass on the field to make an impact that way.
 


I must have watched a different game. I saw Gray being unable to control his pitches - unable to hit his spots - and struggling as much as he has all season. 79 pitches in 4 innings - only 45 for strikes. walked 4 batters. a long and difficult 4th inning.

I have no problem with pulling Gray after the 4th inning. Now, the relief pitchers did not do their job. So people second-guess pulling Gray because the Twins lost. that does not make it a bad decision. it just means that the other pitchers didn't do their job.

the decisions that don't work out fail 100% of the time - and are easy to second-guess.

I am NOT saying that Rocco should be up for Manager of the Year. I don't get the sudden fascination with platooning. but I don't blame Rocco for Gray having a bad outing. and that's what we had here - Gray having a bad outing.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I must have watched a different game. I saw Gray being unable to control his pitches - unable to hit his spots - and struggling as much as he has all season. 79 pitches in 4 innings - only 45 for strikes. walked 4 batters. a long and difficult 4th inning.

I have no problem with pulling Gray after the 4th inning. Now, the relief pitchers did not do their job. So people second-guess pulling Gray because the Twins lost. that does not make it a bad decision. it just means that the other pitchers didn't do their job.

the decisions that don't work out fail 100% of the time - and are easy to second-guess.

I am NOT saying that Rocco should be up for Manager of the Year. I don't get the sudden fascination with platooning. but I don't blame Rocco for Gray having a bad outing. and that's what we had here - Gray having a bad outing.
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I think if he had been bad over 4 innings it would make more sense. But it was really just one bad inning. I'm not as mad about it as others but I would have at least given him the start of the 5th. Once there's a base runner, then pull him.
 

Last night was rough but goal still is win 3 out of 4. Am going out on a limb and predicting a big game from Buxton. He's due. Ryan will be sharp and the bullpen slams the door. Book it Dano!
 



golf said:
Last night was rough but goal still is win 3 out of 4. Am going out on a limb and predicting a big game from Buxton. He's due. Ryan will be sharp and the bullpen slams the door. Book it Dano!
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Revised prediction. We lose 3 out of 4. Silly me with Gray and Ryan going thought the first two games were pretty much in the bag. Then would split the last two. Good times would roll on.
Nope, now it's about trying to not get swept at home by a team that had lost 10 of 11 coming in.
 


I don’t know what Buxton and Rocco were mad about on the strikeout. That was very much a strike.

I still can’t believe they called that misplay by Julien a hit. That’s an error.
 

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