All Things 2023 Minnesota Twins In-Season Thread

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golf said:
Sox are reeling, would've been nice to step on their throats right out of the gate. There would've been a fistfight on the mound if a manager had went out to get Morris or Blyleven after 78 pitches and 1 hit.

On the other hand pitchers today are so fragile and we just lost two starters. Guess I trust Rocco on this one. Would be interesting to get Ryan's honest thoughts. I know Sonny Gray was frustrated with early hooks last season.
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Ryan throws so free and easy though. Arm injuries can happen anytime. But can worry about it with him. He also rarely even throws breaking balls.

Hes a guy who can and should be a total horse.

Make it to October and his tough to pick up heater will be tough in the cold weather.
 

Too early to buy out Ryan’s remaining years of team control/arbitration and get him on a long term deal on the cheap? He’s basically free this year and next year until he hits arbitration in 2025. At a minimum they have to start the conversation next offseason, no?
 

jham13 said:
Especially since Ryan only was at 87 pitches. He probably could have pitched 2 more innings.
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MUgopher32 said:
Inexcusable.

Baseball has never been a sport where you actively give a team that top to bottom cant hit a guy, a better chance to hit by taking him out for no reason.
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The "taking him out for no reason" is nonsense. There were reasons, even if you don't agree (nor do I necessarily with all of them).

- Ryan has only thrown 100 pitches once in his career. He was approaching that total.
- 3rd time through the lineup.
- Rested bullpen.

Rocco turned it over to Lopez who hadn't given up an earned run yet this season. Didn't work.

That's baseball.
 

Ope3 said:
The "taking him out for no reason" is nonsense. There were reasons, even if you don't agree (nor do I necessarily with all of them).

- Ryan has only thrown 100 pitches once in his career. He was approaching that total.
- 3rd time through the lineup.
- Rested bullpen.

Rocco turned it over to Lopez who hadn't given up an earned run yet this season. Didn't work.

That's baseball.
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Ryan aint going to throw 100 pitches or more unless they start letting him do that. Rocco and company are the reason he never goes over 100 pitches. Him only throwing 100 pitches once is a completely ridiculous defense of taking him out tonight!
 


Gopher_In_NYC said:
Excuse me sir🤓

What’s our record thus far against the Astros and Yankees?
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Against the number 1 and 2 starters they will throw at us. Please do tell.

And what are you using the yankees and Astros for? The yankees are last in their division and the Astros are 16-14.
 
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Now 4-4 over the last two weeks against Nats, Royals and White Sox. Yuck.
 

Ope3 said:
The "taking him out for no reason" is nonsense. There were reasons, even if you don't agree (nor do I necessarily with all of them).

- Ryan has only thrown 100 pitches once in his career. He was approaching that total.
- 3rd time through the lineup.
- Rested bullpen.

Rocco turned it over to Lopez who hadn't given up an earned run yet this season. Didn't work.

That's baseball.
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In the last batter he faced his fastball went from 93 to 90 too. We can disagree with the decision to take him out but like you said it wasn’t for no reason.
 

MUgopher32 said:
If they play .500 baseball??

Well one.....84-78 is an awful record(even for this division) and thats assuming .500.

It was an awful move by an awful manager on many levels. Not only did he take out a pitcher cruising. But now in the first game of a week he over uses his bullpen as a result of the bad move.

Its constantly making these moves why we are 7-9 in our last 16. Or 11-12 against teams not named the Royals. He doesnt know what hes doing.

Shit, we technically got Anderson out before losing. Pitching to TA there was probably dumber than pulling Ryan. It just magically worked. The guy is really bad and has to be called out on it.

Every game matters. Theres a reason why the final days of the regular season multiple divisions and WC are decided every single year. Just like football where they play 16 games. Or basketball where they play 82.
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How do you make it through the day?

JFC.
 



Ope3 said:
The "taking him out for no reason" is nonsense. There were reasons, even if you don't agree (nor do I necessarily with all of them).

- Ryan has only thrown 100 pitches once in his career. He was approaching that total.
- 3rd time through the lineup.
- Rested bullpen.

Rocco turned it over to Lopez who hadn't given up an earned run yet this season. Didn't work.

That's baseball.
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Ryan was still 13 pitches off from 100. He was mowing down the order. He has the best WHIP in baseball he does not allow base runners. He was getting quick outs(just Anderson long walk)

He has gone 6 innings 3 times and 7 innings twice already this year coming in hes stretched out.

It was an awful move. Reminiscient of last year when we would blow games and as a result cause a ripple effect over working our bullpen. Its also why Gray wont resign here unless we wow him. Pitchers want to pitch when theyve earned it.
 

7Gopher7 said:
Ryan aint going to throw 100 pitches or more unless they start letting him do that. Rocco and company are the reason he never goes over 100 pitches. Him only throwing 100 pitches once is a completely ridiculous defense of taking him out tonight!
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There can certainly be something between agreeing with the decision and classifying it as "ridiculous".
 


MUgopher32 said:
Ryan was still 13 pitches off from 100. He was mowing down the order. He has the best WHIP in baseball he does not allow base runners. He was getting quick outs(just Anderson long walk)

He has gone 6 innings 3 times and 7 innings twice already this year coming in hes stretched out.

It was an awful move. Reminiscient of last year when we would blow games and as a result cause a ripple effect over working our bullpen. Its also why Gray wont resign here unless we wow him. Pitchers want to pitch when theyve earned it.
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There can certainly be something between agreeing with the decision and classifying it as "awful".

GII indicated velocity had dropped from 93 to 90 MPH. The game was turned over to a reliever that had not given up an earned run yet this season.

It didn't work out. That's baseball.

Even with that they tied the game based on a managerial move to PH Gordon who hit a HR. Still could have won. Hopefully they will have better fortune in Game 31 today out of 162.
 



kg21 said:
That could literally win this shit division.

But then we have to play in the playoffs.
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I’m going to go back to the beginning.

Why does the prospect of playing in the playoffs seemingly cause such angst?


I will answer your other post in due time.
 

Joe Ryan to this point in his career has pitched in the 7th inning 8 times.

Hes allowed 1 run.

His career is still young so its not a massive sample size but here is his career in the 6th inning or later

6th- 20 IP, 2 ER, WHIP 1

7th- 7 1/3 IP, 1 ER, 4 base runners

8th- 2/3, 0 ER, 1 hit

Hes also very dominate in the 1st two innings. Its the second time through the order in the middle of game that teams have gotten him
 

Ope3 said:
There can certainly be something between agreeing with the decision and classifying it as "awful".

GII indicated velocity had dropped from 93 to 90 MPH. The game was turned over to a reliever that had not given up an earned run yet this season.

It didn't work out. That's baseball.

Even with that they tied the game based on a managerial move to PH Gordon who hit a HR. Still could have won. Hopefully they will have better fortune in Game 31 today out of 162.
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No it was awful.

Taking out a guy that was not being hit(literally) had not allowed a hit since 1 out in the second inning. Is actively making the choice to let an offense off the hook.

As my other post will show. There is no issue for Ryan deeper into games. Hes a pitcher. He locates. He throws strikes and he doesnt allow baserunners.

HIs only flaw is #1 pitch is the easiest pitch in basesball to square up so he can give up the long ball. Well, that can happen at anytime. Hes not a pitcher you should ever expect to randomly allow a team to string to get hit after hit after walk. Hes the guy to ride.
 

MUgopher32 said:
No it was awful.

Taking out a guy that was not being hit(literally) had not allowed a hit since 1 out in the second inning. Is actively making the choice to let an offense off the hook.

As my other post will show. There is no issue for Ryan deeper into games. Hes a pitcher. He locates. He throws strikes and he doesnt allow baserunners.

HIs only flaw is #1 pitch is the easiest pitch in basesball to square up so he can give up the long ball. Well, that can happen at anytime. Hes not a pitcher you should ever expect to randomly allow a team to string to get hit after hit after walk. Hes the guy to ride.
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I disagree.
 


Everyone can argue all you want about the decision to pull Ryan but if the Twins could just hit some bum from a bad team and be winning 6-0 instead of 2-0 there wouldn't be a problem.

This lineup is loaded with a bunch of guys who all tend to play well the same game and then all go cold for multiple games. They need to figure it out.
 


MUgopher32 said:
Ryan was still 13 pitches off from 100. He was mowing down the order. He has the best WHIP in baseball he does not allow base runners. He was getting quick outs(just Anderson long walk)

He has gone 6 innings 3 times and 7 innings twice already this year coming in hes stretched out.

It was an awful move. Reminiscient of last year when we would blow games and as a result cause a ripple effect over working our bullpen. Its also why Gray wont resign here unless we wow him. Pitchers want to pitch when theyve earned it.
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$$ for Gray is the driving factor as Gray is on the verge of becoming a free agent for the first time at age 33.

As I posted before Abner, the Twins are second in innings pitched by starters, 5.6, per The Athletic - that's how the game is now played, per the stats and no amount of caterwauling is going to change it.

I still see your posts when I'm signed out and normally won't reply, as many on here are capable of refuting your yelps, but when I have access to specific information, I will reply back and then sit back and enjoy the ignore feature.


From The Athletics' Aaron Gleeman, someone who is paid to post thier baseball acumen online.

Any chance the Twins and Sonny Gray work out an extension? — Ben C.

Sonny Gray is six months from being a first-time free agent at age 33 and he’s off to the best start of his career, so it would be very expensive to keep him from hitting the open market, assuming he were even open to the idea. It’s a different situation than the Twins’ recent four-year, $73.5 million extension with Pablo López, who had this season and next to go before free agency.

This past offseason, 34-year-old right-hander Chris Bassitt signed a three-year, $63 million free-agent deal with the Blue Jays. There would be zero reason for Gray to accept anything below that from the Twins, and it wouldn’t be unreasonable for his agent to push for a four-year deal in the $80 million range. Is that a price the Twins might pay for a 33-year-old? It seems unlikely, but not impossible.

Another factor in Gray’s upcoming free agency is that the Twins can make him the qualifying offer, which is basically a one-year, $20 million contract proposal. If he accepts it, the Twins would love to have him back for another year without the long-term investment. And if he declines it and signs elsewhere, they’d get a supplemental first-round pick as compensation.

Pitching prospect Chase Petty, the 26th pick in the 2021 draft, was the price to acquire Gray from the Reds in March of 2022. While the possibility of keeping Gray beyond this season is obviously appealing, the Twins could get two strong seasons from Gray and then recoup nearly all of the value they traded away with a compensatory pick in the same range, a nifty piece of front-office business.

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Ope3 said:
I already stated the reasons why I objectively disagree.
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They were not objective reasons lol.

There is nothing that objectively shows pulling Ryan after 6 is historically smart and there was nothing in the game(baseball for 100 years was a feel game) that would say he was struggling. Again, even Anderson(excellent bat to ball) AB wasnt Ryan being squared up. He was hitting corners and Anderson was flicking them away to stay alive. Great battle. Immediately got a DP from the next guy.

Typically the sign that starters get pulled are two things

1. Lots of hard contact
2. High leverage innings

Neither of those were a factor all game. He basically spent the entire game in the wind up. We made the decision to pull a guy that they were not seeing well and gave them a chance to see a new arm angle and pitch selection. That isnt my opinion that is a fact. We did that.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
$$ for Gray is the driving factor as Gray is on the verge of becoming a free agent for the first time at age 33.

As I posted before Abner, the Twins are second in innings pitched by starters, 5.6, per The Athletic - that's how the game is now played, per the stats and no amount of caterwauling is going to change it.

I still see your posts when I'm signed out and normally won't reply, as many on here are capable of refuting your yelps, but when I have access to specific information, I will reply back and then sit back and enjoy the ignore feature.


From The Athletics' Aaron Gleeman, someone who is paid to post thier baseball acumen online.

Any chance the Twins and Sonny Gray work out an extension? — Ben C.

Sonny Gray is six months from being a first-time free agent at age 33 and he’s off to the best start of his career, so it would be very expensive to keep him from hitting the open market, assuming he were even open to the idea. It’s a different situation than the Twins’ recent four-year, $73.5 million extension with Pablo López, who had this season and next to go before free agency.

This past offseason, 34-year-old right-hander Chris Bassitt signed a three-year, $63 million free-agent deal with the Blue Jays. There would be zero reason for Gray to accept anything below that from the Twins, and it wouldn’t be unreasonable for his agent to push for a four-year deal in the $80 million range. Is that a price the Twins might pay for a 33-year-old? It seems unlikely, but not impossible.

Another factor in Gray’s upcoming free agency is that the Twins can make him the qualifying offer, which is basically a one-year, $20 million contract proposal. If he accepts it, the Twins would love to have him back for another year without the long-term investment. And if he declines it and signs elsewhere, they’d get a supplemental first-round pick as compensation.

Pitching prospect Chase Petty, the 26th pick in the 2021 draft, was the price to acquire Gray from the Reds in March of 2022. While the possibility of keeping Gray beyond this season is obviously appealing, the Twins could get two strong seasons from Gray and then recoup nearly all of the value they traded away with a compensatory pick in the same range, a nifty piece of front-office business.

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At 33, I would be very hesitant to commit big time bucks to Gray over multiple years.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
$$ for Gray is the driving factor as Gray is on the verge of becoming a free agent for the first time at age 33.

As I posted before Abner, the Twins are second in innings pitched by starters, 5.6, per The Athletic - that's how the game is now played, per the stats and no amount of caterwauling is going to change it.

I still see your posts when I'm signed out and normally won't reply, as many on here are capable of refuting your yelps, but when I have access to specific information, I will reply back and then sit back and enjoy the ignore feature.


From The Athletics' Aaron Gleeman, someone who is paid to post thier baseball acumen online.

Any chance the Twins and Sonny Gray work out an extension? — Ben C.

Sonny Gray is six months from being a first-time free agent at age 33 and he’s off to the best start of his career, so it would be very expensive to keep him from hitting the open market, assuming he were even open to the idea. It’s a different situation than the Twins’ recent four-year, $73.5 million extension with Pablo López, who had this season and next to go before free agency.

This past offseason, 34-year-old right-hander Chris Bassitt signed a three-year, $63 million free-agent deal with the Blue Jays. There would be zero reason for Gray to accept anything below that from the Twins, and it wouldn’t be unreasonable for his agent to push for a four-year deal in the $80 million range. Is that a price the Twins might pay for a 33-year-old? It seems unlikely, but not impossible.

Another factor in Gray’s upcoming free agency is that the Twins can make him the qualifying offer, which is basically a one-year, $20 million contract proposal. If he accepts it, the Twins would love to have him back for another year without the long-term investment. And if he declines it and signs elsewhere, they’d get a supplemental first-round pick as compensation.

Pitching prospect Chase Petty, the 26th pick in the 2021 draft, was the price to acquire Gray from the Reds in March of 2022. While the possibility of keeping Gray beyond this season is obviously appealing, the Twins could get two strong seasons from Gray and then recoup nearly all of the value they traded away with a compensatory pick in the same range, a nifty piece of front-office business.

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I mean Gray has publicly called us out on multiple occasions for pulling starters. So idk what any of that incoherrent ramble was.

What I said was fact, its been an issue for Gray. We can wow him with a deal to stay but thats what will be needed.
 

forever a gopher said:
Too early to buy out Ryan’s remaining years of team control/arbitration and get him on a long term deal on the cheap? He’s basically free this year and next year until he hits arbitration in 2025. At a minimum they have to start the conversation next offseason, no?
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Great question and I have an answer for you (this was queried by a fan and answered by Aaron Gleeman of The Athletic) -

Could you see the Twins giving Joe Ryan a Spencer Strider-adjacent contract extension? — Cody S.

Braves right-hander Spencer Strider finished runner-up in last season’s Rookie of the Year voting and then signed a six-year, $75 million contract that extends his team control through age 30. Joe Ryan is a good starter with a chance to be really good, but Strider is one of the most electric young arms in baseball. And their respective ages are also key considerations here.

Strider debuted at 22 and would have been a free agent after his age-28 season if not for the extension. Ryan debuted at 25 and is already under team control through his age-31 season, so the Twins have far less motivation to make a big upfront commitment in order to secure further control. That’s no slight against Ryan, it’s just the reality of his age and service time.
 

MUgopher32 said:
They were not objective reasons lol.

There is nothing that objectively shows pulling Ryan after 6 is historically smart and there was nothing in the game(baseball for 100 years was a feel game) that would say he was struggling. Again, even Anderson(excellent bat to ball) AB wasnt Ryan being squared up. He was hitting corners and Anderson was flicking them away to stay alive. Great battle. Immediately got a DP from the next guy.

Typically the sign that starters get pulled are two things

1. Lots of hard contact
2. High leverage innings

Neither of those were a factor all game. He basically spent the entire game in the wind up. We made the decision to pull a guy that they were not seeing well and gave them a chance to see a new arm angle and pitch selection. That isnt my opinion that is a fact. We did that.
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Post 1324 included 3 objective reasons. GII added an even better one in 1328. Just because you disagree doesn't make them subjective.

Dead. Horse.
 

Ope3 said:
At 33, I would be very hesitant to commit big time bucks to Gray over multiple years.
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Exactly and everyone was saying we had 6 starters for 5 spots out of spring training, meaning they included Ober - he's shown it through parts of three seasons he belongs and then hopefully Mahle or Paddock is okay and that gives us four for next year and we have lots of corner IF/OFs for trade bait as well.
 

Ope3 said:
I am starting it. The 2022 thread went 136 pages. Let's beat that by playing meaningful baseball into October (or even November perhaps).
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I do feel a symbolic victory of sorts that despite the Vikings Offseason Thread having a months head start, that this Twins In Season Thread has overtaken the page count currently 45 to 43.

It's reassuring that conversation about actual MLB game competition has surpassed what I view as the NFL Silly Season (to each their own though, if it floats your boat go for it, no judgement).

Baseball is not dead!!!!
 

Ope3 said:
I do feel a symbolic victory of sorts that despite the Vikings Offseason Thread having a months head start, that this Twins In Season Thread has overtaken the page count currently 45 to 43.

It's reassuring that conversation about actual MLB game competition has surpassed what I view as the NFL Silly Season (to each their own though, if it floats your boat go for it, no judgement).

Baseball is not dead!!!!
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