All Things 2023-2024 Minnesota Twins Off-Season Thread

Gopher_In_NYC

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. Salary too. Get off books
They will likely have to eat a portion of it and Carmago will then split the position with Jeffers.

Vasquez still has value in working with a staff whether he hits or not. He’d be a good backup for a young staff and as a mentor to a young catcher.

I’ll be surprised if we don’t we don’t find a trade partner, otherwise he’ll be here for this year.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Maeda to the Tigers - 2 years, $24-million.

If the Twins had not lost the Bally money, maybe they go for that deal - but with no TV deal at the present, no way they match that offer.

the story I read noted that "the Central division appears to be wide-open as the Twins are cutting payroll."
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Gray to St. Louie for 3/$75 M, per The Athletic.

Good spot for him and glad the Cards are retooling.


Free-agent right-handed starter Sonny Gray has agreed to a three-year deal worth $75 million with the St. Louis Cardinals, league sources confirmed to The Athletic.
 
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Gopher_In_NYC

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Maeda to the Tigers - 2 years, $24-million.

If the Twins had not lost the Bally money, maybe they go for that deal - but with no TV deal at the present, no way they match that offer.

the story I read noted that "the Central division appears to be wide-open as the Twins are cutting payroll."
Wow, all the projections I saw for him, were 1/$10M.
Either the guy who wrote this projections was off and/or Kenta’s agent is legendary.

The Tiggers lost their best SP in Rodriquez and Casey Mize one of the other projected starters is coming off TJ surgery.

They won’t be there this season, but are the most threatening to us as they have the best farm talent in our division in the future.
 
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GophersInIowa

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Gray to St. Louie for 3/$75 M, per The Athletic.
Good spot for him and glad the Cards are retooling.



Free-agent right-handed starter Sonny Gray has agreed to a three-year deal worth $75 million with the St. Louis Cardinals, league sources confirmed to The Athletic.
Cardinals going after a lot of former Twins. Good landing a spot for him.
 




Ski U Mah Gopher

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Gray to St. Louie for 3/$75 M, per The Athletic.

Good spot for him and glad the Cards are retooling.


Free-agent right-handed starter Sonny Gray has agreed to a three-year deal worth $75 million with the St. Louis Cardinals, league sources confirmed to The Athletic.
That completes the Gray trade:

Petty for Gray and a pick somewhere between 33-38.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Cardinals have also signed Kyle Gibson and one of our favorite ex-Twins, Lance Lynn. 3/5 of their starting rotation will be former Twins.

as Ski U Mah noted, the Twins essentially got two seasons of Gray for a pick swap - gave up a 1st round selection in Petty and the Twins will receive the comp pick in return for losing Gray. Petty was the 26th pick in the draft and the comp pick as noted will be somewhere around 35th.

I'm seeing some of the Twins Daily crowd already going ballistic.

People - Opening Day is still over 4 months away. you can't give a final grade on the off-season until then. If Opening Day arrives and the Twins have done nothing to improve the rotation, that's when you can get out the torches and pitchforks.
 




Gopher_In_NYC

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Cardinals have also signed Kyle Gibson and one of our favorite ex-Twins, Lance Lynn. 3/5 of their starting rotation will be former Twins.

as Ski U Mah noted, the Twins essentially got two seasons of Gray for a pick swap - gave up a 1st round selection in Petty and the Twins will receive the comp pick in return for losing Gray. Petty was the 26th pick in the draft and the comp pick as noted will be somewhere around 35th.

I'm seeing some of the Twins Daily crowd already going ballistic.

People - Opening Day is still over 4 months away. you can't give a final grade on the off-season until then. If Opening Day arrives and the Twins have done nothing to improve the rotation, that's when you can get out the torches and pitchforks.
Donnie 🦇 was signed within a fortnight of camp last year - lots of time
 

howeda7

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Maeda to the Tigers - 2 years, $24-million.

If the Twins had not lost the Bally money, maybe they go for that deal - but with no TV deal at the present, no way they match that offer.

the story I read noted that "the Central division appears to be wide-open as the Twins are cutting payroll."
I like Maeda but that's way too much for a slop throwing #5 starter which is what he is at this point.
 

Breakin' The Plane

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I could have taken or left Gray. He was obviously very good, but never really felt like an ace when you watched him. He had lots of long innings (to his credit, he usually worked out of them), or there was always a pitch or two where you felt things could just erupt and it would go bad in a hurry.
 



howeda7

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I could have taken or left Gray. He was obviously very good, but never really felt like an ace when you watched him. He had lots of long innings (to his credit, he usually worked out of them), or there was always a pitch or two where you felt things could just erupt and it would go bad in a hurry.
He was definitely ace caliber last season. Do I think he will be that good or healthy for ages 35-37? No. I'm fine passing on that contract.
 

short ornery norwegian

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one of the reasons IMHO that Gray was only 8-8 was that he rarely attacked hitters. he was always throwing breaking balls 6 inches to a foot off the plate and hoping that guys would swing at them. as a result, he was in a lot of long counts and he'd be at 90+ pitches through 5 innings.

He's a quality pitcher, but if teams learn to lay off the breaking ball and force him to come inside, I don't know if he can continue to be that effective.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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I could have taken or left Gray. He was obviously very good, but never really felt like an ace when you watched him. He had lots of long innings (to his credit, he usually worked out of them), or there was always a pitch or two where you felt things could just erupt and it would go bad in a hurry.
Pablo was/is our ace.
Gray is a great Robin.
 




short ornery norwegian

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Ken Rosenthal reporting that Pagan's deal with the Reds --

two years, $16-million with performance bonuses. Player option after the 1st year.

If the Twins had given Pagan that deal, Twins Twitter and the Twins Daily crowd might have experienced spontaneous combustion.

on a serious note - if that is what a middle-inning relief pitcher is getting in this market - good luck to the Twins trying to add pitching while cutting payroll. they had better hope that some of the arms in the farm system pan out.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Ken Rosenthal reporting that Pagan's deal with the Reds --

two years, $16-million with performance bonuses. Player option after the 1st year.

If the Twins had given Pagan that deal, Twins Twitter and the Twins Daily crowd might have experienced spontaneous combustion.

on a serious note - if that is what a middle-inning relief pitcher is getting in this market - good luck to the Twins trying to add pitching while cutting payroll. they had better hope that some of the arms in the farm system pan out.
An outlier IMO -

Many teams follow the Twins model looking for rehab jobs (like Stewart) or minor leaguers. From what I’ve read that’s the playbook this year as well.
They feel positive about Alcala and that’s why he’s still around.

Would be interesting to see how many games middle relief cost the Reds last season and it appears that they’re going for it next season
 

howeda7

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Ken Rosenthal reporting that Pagan's deal with the Reds --

two years, $16-million with performance bonuses. Player option after the 1st year.

If the Twins had given Pagan that deal, Twins Twitter and the Twins Daily crowd might have experienced spontaneous combustion.

on a serious note - if that is what a middle-inning relief pitcher is getting in this market - good luck to the Twins trying to add pitching while cutting payroll. they had better hope that some of the arms in the farm system pan out.
I'd picket Derek Falvey's office he gave Pagan that contract. :cool:

Seriously good luck with that Reds. The thing is that there are always a bunch of relievers that end up taking 1 year deals for less than $5 million right before Spring Training. I'm not worried about their ability to add one more arm. A starter and a 1B and a CF are the main concerns.
 

short ornery norwegian

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I keep seeing people talk about adding a 1B. I haven't given up on Kirilloff yet. Now, to be sure, 2023 could be a make-or-break year for him. He has to show that he can stay healthy. But I still think there is a lot of potential in that bat, so at the very least, I'd like to see Kirilloff as the 1B against RH pitching.

If they want a right-handed hitter to platoon at 1B, that's one thing.

but given the self-imposed budget constraints, I just don't see the Twins spending a lot of $$ if they don't have to. so I could see an Austin Martin in CF, or give Miranda another shot at 1B.

of course, if they get to Spring Training and Kirilloff can't play, then that might force the matter. but until they rule him out as an option, I think he's going to get another shot.
 

howeda7

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I keep seeing people talk about adding a 1B. I haven't given up on Kirilloff yet. Now, to be sure, 2023 could be a make-or-break year for him. He has to show that he can stay healthy. But I still think there is a lot of potential in that bat, so at the very least, I'd like to see Kirilloff as the 1B against RH pitching.

If they want a right-handed hitter to platoon at 1B, that's one thing.

but given the self-imposed budget constraints, I just don't see the Twins spending a lot of $$ if they don't have to. so I could see an Austin Martin in CF, or give Miranda another shot at 1B.

of course, if they get to Spring Training and Kirilloff can't play, then that might force the matter. but until they rule him out as an option, I think he's going to get another shot.
I'm not giving up on Kiriloff, but he can play a decent corner OF and isn't exactly spectacular at 1B. Plus it's easier to cover for him if he has further injury issues. I would trade Kepler and plan on a platoon of Buxton and Kiriloff in RF (realistically just hope at least one of them is healthy.)
 

From the Parkinglot

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Pagan is going to give up some massive (length) homeruns this year in the bandbox of a stadium in the hot and humid July weather.
 

Breakin' The Plane

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From the not exactly surprising news file, Cory Provus will be the "new" voice of Twins baseball on television, assuming they figure out where games will be televised.
 

short ornery norwegian

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more on the broadcasting deal: from the Strib:

Cory Provus, who has called Twins games on radio since 2012, will inherit Bremer's spot in the TV booth next season, multiple sources have confirmed. And the Twins will stay in-house to replace Provus on radio as well, by promoting studio host and fill-in play-by-play voice Kris Atteberry to the everyday job.

The Twins are expected to stick with their lineup of rotating analysts to work alongside Provus next season, with Justin Morneau, Roy Smalley, LaTroy Hawkins and Glen Perkins likely to be back. Dan Gladden, the team's radio analyst for 21 seasons, is also expected to return, though the Twins have made no announcements yet.


(and now the important part)

it appears no new broadcaster has offered to buy the team's television rights, or at least not on terms agreeable to the team. That likely means that the Twins will join the Padres, Diamondbacks and perhaps other former Diamond partners in having MLB produce and distribute their games, via cable, satellite and online streaming.

There is another possibility for baseball teams, however: Reaching an agreement, as Diamond has negotiated with its NBA and NHL partners like the Wolves and Wild, to televise one more season of games.

Negotiations are reportedly underway to see if that's possible, but teams like the Twins are growing impatient over the uncertainty, both with broadcasting plans and the enormous loss of revenue Diamond's bankruptcy will inflict. MLB has filed a motion in federal bankruptcy court to compel Diamond to guarantee they will pay all rights fees owed for 2024, or declare which teams' contracts they intend to cancel, as they did last year to the Padres and Diamondbacks and attempted to do to the Twins, Guardians and Rangers.

A hearing on that motion is scheduled for Dec. 16. The
Twins should know shortly afterward whether BSN remains a plausible option for 2024.
 

howeda7

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more on the broadcasting deal: from the Strib:

Cory Provus, who has called Twins games on radio since 2012, will inherit Bremer's spot in the TV booth next season, multiple sources have confirmed. And the Twins will stay in-house to replace Provus on radio as well, by promoting studio host and fill-in play-by-play voice Kris Atteberry to the everyday job.

The Twins are expected to stick with their lineup of rotating analysts to work alongside Provus next season, with Justin Morneau, Roy Smalley, LaTroy Hawkins and Glen Perkins likely to be back. Dan Gladden, the team's radio analyst for 21 seasons, is also expected to return, though the Twins have made no announcements yet.


(and now the important part)

it appears no new broadcaster has offered to buy the team's television rights, or at least not on terms agreeable to the team. That likely means that the Twins will join the Padres, Diamondbacks and perhaps other former Diamond partners in having MLB produce and distribute their games, via cable, satellite and online streaming.

There is another possibility for baseball teams, however: Reaching an agreement, as Diamond has negotiated with its NBA and NHL partners like the Wolves and Wild, to televise one more season of games.

Negotiations are reportedly underway to see if that's possible, but teams like the Twins are growing impatient over the uncertainty, both with broadcasting plans and the enormous loss of revenue Diamond's bankruptcy will inflict. MLB has filed a motion in federal bankruptcy court to compel Diamond to guarantee they will pay all rights fees owed for 2024, or declare which teams' contracts they intend to cancel, as they did last year to the Padres and Diamondbacks and attempted to do to the Twins, Guardians and Rangers.

A hearing on that motion is scheduled for Dec. 16. The
Twins should know shortly afterward whether BSN remains a plausible option for 2024.
I don't understand why they are even considering Bally for another year other than it would line them up with the Wolves and Wild so they can do something together. But ugh.
 

short ornery norwegian

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I don't understand why they are even considering Bally for another year other than it would line them up with the Wolves and Wild so they can do something together. But ugh.

if you saw the line in the story--
it appears no new broadcaster has offered to buy the team's television rights, or at least not on terms agreeable to the team.

in a word, $$$$.

Let's say the Twins' choices are
1. let MLB take over broadcasting rights
2. make some kind of a deal with a local TV channel with a separate streaming package
3. go back to Bally for one year.

last year the Twins received $55-million from Bally. If they go with option 1 or 2 they will likely get a lot less money. even with Bally, they will get less money, but it will likely be more money than they would net from MLB or a local deal.

I will point this out again - Rob Manfred did an interview with the "Marchand and Ourand Sports Media Podcast" about 6 weeks ago. He said that for teams that lose their RSN, if MLB has to take over broadcast rights, his goal is to help those teams get back to 80% of what they were receiving from the RSN - BUT it would likely take 3 to 5 years to get back to that 80% level.

80% of $55-million is $44-million. so according to Manfred, the best-case scenario is that 3 to 5 years from now, the Twins could be back to $44-million local TV revenue. that is the cold, hard truth - whatever option they choose is going to provide lower revenue. so the Twins' job is to find the option that recovers as much of that revenue as possible. if that winds up being Bally, so be it.
 

howeda7

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if you saw the line in the story--
it appears no new broadcaster has offered to buy the team's television rights, or at least not on terms agreeable to the team.

in a word, $$$$.

Let's say the Twins' choices are
1. let MLB take over broadcasting rights
2. make some kind of a deal with a local TV channel with a separate streaming package
3. go back to Bally for one year.

last year the Twins received $55-million from Bally. If they go with option 1 or 2 they will likely get a lot less money. even with Bally, they will get less money, but it will likely be more money than they would net from MLB or a local deal.

I will point this out again - Rob Manfred did an interview with the "Marchand and Ourand Sports Media Podcast" about 6 weeks ago. He said that for teams that lose their RSN, if MLB has to take over broadcast rights, his goal is to help those teams get back to 80% of what they were receiving from the RSN - BUT it would likely take 3 to 5 years to get back to that 80% level.

80% of $55-million is $44-million. so according to Manfred, the best-case scenario is that 3 to 5 years from now, the Twins could be back to $44-million local TV revenue. that is the cold, hard truth - whatever option they choose is going to provide lower revenue. so the Twins' job is to find the option that recovers as much of that revenue as possible. if that winds up being Bally, so be it.
They are certainly going to lose a chunk of that $$. But if Bally re-ups with them, it won't be for $55 million either. I'd guess Bally's will try to get them for half of what they paid last year.

Realistically, they can go to DirecTV/Cable carriers that currently carry BSN, and ask for half of the fee they pay Bally's as they were roughly half the content (about $1/subscriber/month). That alone makes up a chunk of the $$. Then yes, they will have a streaming package and should have a package of over the air games. They will also now control the advertising. I think they can get it to $25-30 million in year 1 doing it on their own/with MLB and that's all they would get from BSN anyway. So may as well get on with it and get the games in more homes.

I sense this is more the Pohlads being risk averse and just wanting the certainty of a check instead of the multiple revenue streams doing it on their own will entail.
 
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