All Things 2022 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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howeda7 said:
I didn't say that was the goal. But I don't consider a team that makes the play-offs to be "in year 2 of a 4 year rebuild."
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I think when you have a young team lose in the first round of the playoffs it is part of a rebuild. And when you have an old team lose in the playoffs it isn’t.

it is literally why some 8-9 coaches get fired and other 8-9 coaches don’t get fired
 

Some guy said:
I think when you have a young team lose in the first round of the playoffs it is part of a rebuild. And when you have an old team lose in the playoffs it isn’t.

it is literally why some 8-9 coaches get fired and other 8-9 coaches don’t get fired
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We don't need to argue semantics. But it also doesn't have to be a one and done appearance. If Rogers is traded, the Vikings could easily be winning the North in 2023.
 

howeda7 said:
We don't need to argue semantics. But it also doesn't have to be a one and done appearance. If Rogers is traded, the Vikings could easily be winning the North in 2023.
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If the Vikings win the north in 2023 they still won’t be good enough to win the Super Bowl without getting much younger on defense. And I guess losing in the divisional or wild card round doesn’t do much for me.
Which is why I’m glad they moved on from the last GM and HC and wish they would have earlier


for the record, I think Zimmer is an above average coach. The team needs a rebuild and he isn’t good enough to get two builds for me
 

Face The Facts said:
If they interview Frazier, the question you need to ask is "How did Rick Spielman get you to keep playing Christian Ponder, never once yanking him in the 3rd quarter for poor performance?"
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Just finished listening to an almost hour long interview with Rick Spielman and I have to say I came away pretty impressed. Pretty sharp guy, pretty insightful, and one thing I took away was that he's certainly not a pompous ass. You can hide that for a brief snippet, 30-60 second interview exchange but not for an hour where you're doing most of the talking.

I'll spare everyone a lengthy blow-by-blow but I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up working again very soon. Nothing was remotely discussed about the future, it was just an interview about player evaluation, building a roster, traits you're looking for in certain positions and most importantly, how the traits you may draft in a player for one OC/DC and certain scheme may not translate to another coordinator and/or scheme.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Just finished listening to an almost hour long interview with Rick Spielman and I have to say I came away pretty impressed. Pretty sharp guy, pretty insightful, and one thing I took away was that he's certainly not a pompous ass. You can hide that for a brief snippet, 30-60 second interview exchange but not for an hour where you're doing most of the talking.

I'll spare everyone a lengthy blow-by-blow but I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up working again very soon. Nothing was remotely discussed about the future, it was just an interview about player evaluation, building a roster, traits you're looking for in certain positions and most importantly, how the traits you may draft in a player for one OC/DC and certain scheme may not translate to another coordinator and/or scheme.
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haven't listened to this yet, but saw some tweets. apparently Spielman admits that he made mistakes in evaluating QB prospects - did not give enough weight to 'decision-making ability' as a factor in QB play. I did hear a segment where he was analyzing the qualities he looks for in a WR, which was interesting.
 


on "contending" - it all depends on who they hire as HC and GM. If the new HC and GM want to play a certain style of FB, and they don't think that they have the players they need on the current roster, there will have to be a lot of turnover.

the draft will be important, but if the Vikes want to get into the free-agent game, they have to clear up a LOT of cap space, and about the only way to do that is to trade Cousins.

so, unless the new brain trust gets lucky on a few deals, I don't see this team contending next year, and I'm fine with that - as long as the new HC and GM have a plan and can work together to follow that plan.

goes without saying - if they trade Cousins, then next year is either a rookie QB or a stop-game veteran on a short-term deal. that is not a recipe for a contender.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
haven't listened to this yet, but saw some tweets. apparently Spielman admits that he made mistakes in evaluating QB prospects - did not give enough weight to 'decision-making ability' as a factor in QB play. I did hear a segment where he was analyzing the qualities he looks for in a WR, which was interesting.
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I claim BS. Ponder was claimed to have "the smarts" to be a QB, but he didn't have the physical tools to be one.

Besides, his ineptitude on evaluating QB prospects was only half of what sunk his battleship. His refusal to draft them, period, is the other half that sunk him. To have sustained success in the NFL you either need an elite QB, or an elite defense (like top 3 in the league) with an above average everything else. You can get away with a lot more shortcomings if you have an elite QB (see Packers, Green Bay). Once you determine your crap QB isn't going to cut it, move on in a timely manner and re-try with a new one. Jackson and Ponder were held on to for too long when it was obvious they weren't "it". You can debate on Teddy, but I was never sold on him. Cousins has been consistent his entire starting career, and you know what you're getting. He isn't it- move on. A lot of the draft is luck; you need to increase your odds by increasing your bets at the most valuable position. The entire NFL is rigged to reward those with great QBs. That should be your priority 1. Spielman treated it like it was priority 4 or 5 thinking this is still the NFL circa 1995. Especially with how you can't hit QB's anymore, if you get a great one, you can have him around for 15 years. That's way more valuable than drafting a RB in the first two rounds that you'll get 5-7 years from if you're lucky, or a CB that are typically great for no more than 5 years.
 





short ornery norwegian said:
on "contending" - it all depends on who they hire as HC and GM. If the new HC and GM want to play a certain style of FB, and they don't think that they have the players they need on the current roster, there will have to be a lot of turnover.

the draft will be important, but if the Vikes want to get into the free-agent game, they have to clear up a LOT of cap space, and about the only way to do that is to trade Cousins.

so, unless the new brain trust gets lucky on a few deals, I don't see this team contending next year, and I'm fine with that - as long as the new HC and GM have a plan and can work together to follow that plan.

goes without saying - if they trade Cousins, then next year is either a rookie QB or a stop-game veteran on a short-term deal. that is not a recipe for a contender.
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They are in Cap Hell because they thought their window was 2015-2022 when in reality their window was 2015-2018
And because they tried to hang on for extra seasons they got under some really bad contract.

the only way to dig out of them is to draft well and take time to develop or try to trade assets that no longer have value…but just try to free up cap space for free agency. The issue being at a position like QB…you either downgrade in free agency or you draft or you keep cousins. But if you keep cousins you can’t fix the defense. So in the trade you need a QB better than the free agent market to be competitive in the division. But if you had that at a lower cost why would you trade it to the Vikings for cousins.


outside of cousins playing outside his mind next year…this team will likely be 3-4 in the division with the bears…and it is a bad division.
All of the scenarios where the Vikings don’t significantly downgrade the QB positions either involve keeping cousins so they can’t fix the rest of the team, having a team being so dumb that they trade a good contract good QB for cousins’ bad contract, or pretending like a rookie or free agent from the current pool can come even close to cousins’ production.
 

I still say I’d like to see what Cousins can do under a different staff.
 


Scoggins in today's STrib:

What to do about Kirk Cousins? The elephant in the Vikings interview rooms wears No. 8​

The Kirk Cousins Conundrum.

What do you do?

Door 1: Trade him.

Door 2: Let him play out his final season with a $45 million cap hit.

Door 3: Extend his contract to lower his cap number.

Each option brings risk. Each option carries the weight of dictating the team's path forward. Each option will be unpopular with a segment of the fan base because Cousins has supplanted Joe Mauer as the most polarizing athlete in this sports market over the past 25 years.

My approach in tackling this situation would be in the order listed above: Trade Cousins if possible, knowing that would weaken the team at its most important position in the short term. If a trade doesn't materialize, let him play out his final season in 2022, despite his burdensome cap hit and with the team already projected to be $11 million over the salary cap.
 



I'd like to trade him to Denver for Teddy Bridge (get it? ;) ), and start the search for the next franchise QB candidate.
 



GophersInIowa said:
I still say I’d like to see what Cousins can do under a different staff.
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Cousins is far from the Vikings top problem, other than salary, but he's played under three head coaches, multiple different OC's, and he always ends up being around a .500 QB. His career record is 59-59-2.

By this point in his career he is what he is, regardless of coach. A QB who puts up nice numbers, but when it comes to winning, he's an average QB.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Cousins is far from the Vikings top problem, other than salary, but he's played under three head coaches, multiple different OC's, and he always ends up being around a .500 QB. His career record is 59-59-2.

By this point in his career he is what he is, regardless of coach. A QB who puts up nice numbers, but when it comes to winning, he's an average QB.
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He hasn't played for a team built for what he is. If he played for some of Pats teams Brady won with, you wonder if he could make as many great throws in a season, in those situations. But that's what it would need to be for him to be a big winner.
 

Gophers_4life said:
He hasn't played for a team built for what he is. If he played for some of Pats teams Brady won with, you wonder if he could make as many great throws in a season, in those situations. But that's what it would need to be for him to be a big winner.
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You're not a top QB in this league if you need the team perfectly built around you. Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Roethlisberger, even Mahomes, don't need teams perfectly built around them. This is why Cousins will never win a Super Bowl. And if you're not going to win a Super Bowl with him, then it's time to find a QB you can win one with.
 

Agree on the last sentence, by far and wide. He had his time here, I would like to move on. That's just my opinion, which is worth nothing to the Vikings org!

Also, I have to laugh, about your bringing up Roethlisberger. I only really watched them this year when they played the Vikings, but there were multiple times in that game where the protection would screw up or get beat, Ben would see it from a mile away, nothing he could do, and the look on his face to me was just like "ugh, you assholes ... *wince* *SACK*". :ROFLMAO:
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You're not a top QB in this league if you need the team perfectly built around you. Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Roethlisberger, even Mahomes, don't need teams perfectly built around them. This is why Cousins will never win a Super Bowl. And if you're not going to win a Super Bowl with him, then it's time to find a QB you can win one with.
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It's doesn't need to be perfect but even those guys need solid Defense and Special Teams. The Vikings have been sorely lacking in both those the past 2 years.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Cousins is far from the Vikings top problem, other than salary, but he's played under three head coaches, multiple different OC's, and he always ends up being around a .500 QB. His career record is 59-59-2.

By this point in his career he is what he is, regardless of coach. A QB who puts up nice numbers, but when it comes to winning, he's an average QB.
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He is what he is, which is a good QB. It's become more and more obvious that Zimmer was a big problem for this team. I would interpret what he did at Washington as a positive. His 24-23-1 record in the three years he was primary starter there was an accomplishment, considering the defense those teams had and how little weapons he had around him.
 

Ope3 said:
It's doesn't need to be perfect but even those guys need solid Defense and Special Teams. The Vikings have been sorely lacking in both those the past 2 years.
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Yup. Shit, if you look at even just the last two years, give the Vikings a solid Kicker and Danielle Hunter for each full season, and their record looks a WHOLE lot different honestly.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Scoggins in today's STrib:

What to do about Kirk Cousins? The elephant in the Vikings interview rooms wears No. 8​

The Kirk Cousins Conundrum.

What do you do?

Door 1: Trade him.

Door 2: Let him play out his final season with a $45 million cap hit.

Door 3: Extend his contract to lower his cap number.

Each option brings risk. Each option carries the weight of dictating the team's path forward. Each option will be unpopular with a segment of the fan base because Cousins has supplanted Joe Mauer as the most polarizing athlete in this sports market over the past 25 years.

My approach in tackling this situation would be in the order listed above: Trade Cousins if possible, knowing that would weaken the team at its most important position in the short term. If a trade doesn't materialize, let him play out his final season in 2022, despite his burdensome cap hit and with the team already projected to be $11 million over the salary cap.
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I like how people think it is such a bad thing to have cousins so naturally we can trade him to someone for only a slight downgrade but a much better salary number

If dummies on a message board figure it out I’m sure the opposing GMs will be all over the swap.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Yup. Shit, if you look at even just the last two years, give the Vikings a solid Kicker and Danielle Hunter for each full season, and their record looks a WHOLE lot different honestly.
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Yeah, 2 or 3 wins improved would be my guess each year with a solid chance they would still be alive heading into this Divisional play-off weekend.
 

Some guy said:
I like how people think it is such a bad thing to have cousins so naturally we can trade him to someone for only a slight downgrade but a much better salary number

If dummies on a message board figure it out I’m sure the opposing GMs will be all over the swap.
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It's not that much of a stretch. Cousins has value to any team willing to do an extension and get his cap # down, including the Vikings. But I don't think either side wants to extend that relationship.
 

howeda7 said:
It's not that much of a stretch. Cousins has value to any team willing to do an extension and get his cap # down, including the Vikings. But I don't think either side wants to extend that relationship.
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If cousins is willing to renegotiate his contract it would be bad to get rid of him.
If he isn’t, it’s impossible to get rid of him.
No one will give you value for a one year rental. If you can extend him in a cap friendly way, you should
 

Some guy said:
If cousins is willing to renegotiate his contract it would be bad to get rid of him.
If he isn’t, it’s impossible to get rid of him.
No one will give you value for a one year rental. If you can extend him in a cap friendly way, you should
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In that sense, he has say in where he's traded. I don't think he wants to sign an extension in MN and I don't think we want him to. A trade is best for all.

If he wants to refuse and become a FA, we probably have to play it out with him at $45 million and gut the rest of the roster, go 5-12 and send him on his way. I'm not sure why he would prefer that to going to say Cleveland or Denver and leading a ready-made team to the play-offs.
 

howeda7 said:
In that sense, he has say in where he's traded. I don't think he wants to sign an extension in MN and I don't think we want him to. A trade is best for all. If he wants to refuse and become a FA, we probably have to play it out with him at $45 million and gut the rest of the roster.
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I think that’s the most likely case

in the nba he would sign and trade but that doesn’t happen in the nfl as often
 

Cousins seems like a pretty down to Earth guy. Not a multiple houses, multiple sports cars kinda guy.

So I would guess he already has all the money he needs to live happily for the rest of his life.

Forcing the Vikings to pay him out for 22 guts the roster, as you both agree.


Why would he then essentially want to "waste" next year, on a team with practically no chance to do well, just to get that pay day?

That doesn't make sense, to me.
 

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