All Things 2022 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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Gophers_4life said:
Cousins cap hit was $25M in 2020 and $31M in 2021. Because his base was $9.5M and $21M, instead of the ballooned $35M for 2022.

Until he proves that he himself can actually elevate an offense, he deserves no more than the $21M base (and total cap hit).

Not a damn cent more.

$37-38M???? F no. See ya. Not like you were ever a special player in purple. Good to great at times, sure, but not special.
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Since Cousins joined the Vikings in 2018, among QBs who have played the last 4 years, Cousins is:

- 2nd in Comp %
- 4th in QB Rating
- 5th in Games Played
- 6th in Yards Passing

And the argument is he should get paid like a bottom 10 ranked QB?

The argument that he doesn't "elevate the team" or "can't win unless everything is perfect around him" is also one of the dumbest I've ever heard. You can literally say that for every QB in the entire league except 2 or 3 or 4 guys. Seattle had shit around Wilson this last season, and he didn't "elevate the team" and he's lock HOF QB.

I'd love for the Vikings to have a brilliant promising young QB like Herbert or Josh Allen but they don't. That's the reality right now. Unless someone blows them away with an outrageous offer, Cousins is going to sign an extension and be the Vikings QB for probably a few more years. GMs and HCs who are interested at all in job security (or owners who don't want to suck) don't hastily move off QBs like Cousins for a wild ass shot in the dark, especially in what is considered one of the crappier QB draft classes in a number of years.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Since Cousins joined the Vikings in 2018, among QBs who have played the last 4 years, Cousins is:

- 2nd in Comp %
- 4th in QB Rating
- 5th in Games Played
- 6th in Yards Passing
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Making safe, short passes gets you completion % and fewer ints, thus a great rating.

And with great receivers who give you great YAC, there's your "yards". IMO, YAC should not count for a QB any more than a RB's yard should count from the handoff or pitch.

And sure, that is a valid way to play the game. Fine. So how many wins did we get, playing like that, then?

Games played? OK.

How about wins? Playoff wins?

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
And the argument is he should get paid like a bottom 10 ranked QB?
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The average of his base salary over 2020-2022 is $21.83M.

That's just about what he got for 2021. Hence why I say, he deserves not a damn cent more than what he got in 2021.

I could see like maybe $22-23M or so, but you're saying $37-38M??? GTFO

EDIT: apologies. You're saying 37-38 total cap hit. My bad. Still, that is $27-28 base. Still too high. Still a NO from me. (because I get a vote right? LOL)

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
You can literally say that for every QB in the entire league except 2 or 3 or 4 guys.
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This could be true.

And so, he shouldn't get paid like those guys.

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
especially in what is considered one of the crappier QB draft classes in a number of years.
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As I think you know, it's the 2023 draft class that people are talking about.

No one is advocating the Vikings to draft a QB this year, regardless what happens with Cousins.
 

Look, I'd love for the Vikings to trade Cousins if they get a really, really good offer for him. Absolutely.

I'm just telling you I don't see it happening. And I don't see a way that a QB like Cousins isn't making a minimum of $38M+ for the 2022 season and beyond.

As I look at the list of the current 2022 NFL QB salaries, looking at the top 10, I see a whopping three (3) QBs that are markedly better than Cousins; Rodgers, Russell Wilson and Mahomes.
 



Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Look, I'd love for the Vikings to trade Cousins if they get a really, really good offer for him. Absolutely.

I'm just telling you I don't see it happening. And I don't see a way that a QB like Cousins isn't making a minimum of $38M+ for the 2022 season and beyond.

As I look at the list of the current 2022 NFL QB salaries, looking at the top 10, I see a whopping three (3) QBs that are markedly better than Cousins; Rodgers, Russell Wilson and Mahomes.
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Some other good ones still on their rookie deals.

Kyler could be popping up. You can't compare Cousins and him with a straight face. They don't play the game remotely the same style.
 

By far and wide, the best case for Cousins is what Stafford did with the Rams.

Full stop. It's just that simple.


That's his scenario, to win big. I don't see the Vikings getting to that. Certainly not in 2022 or soon enough for Cousins to want to stick around.
 

Gophers_4life said:
By far and wide, the best case for Cousins is what Stafford did with the Rams.

Full stop. It's just that simple.


That's his scenario, to win big. I don't see the Vikings getting to that. Certainly not in 2022 or soon enough for Cousins to want to stick around.
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Cousins is not as good as Stafford. The Vikings have more talent on offense than the Lions ever did. There's not some higher tier for Cousins to ascend to. This is it.
 




Gophers_4life said:
I don't see how this is true.
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Statistically they may be similar, but who would you take to lead a TD drive in the last two minutes? Stafford every time and it's not close.

Gophers_4life said:
Megatron??
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Yes. But only for the first few years. In his last several they were pathetic. And they never had a running game.

Gophers_4life said:
Correct, he's in the Cousins/Stafford tier.

If he has a team like the Rams built for Stafford last season, then he (Cousins) can do it. Is my point
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They're not in the same tier, IMO. The Vikings offense is already almost as talented as the Rams. The difference is the defense. And we can't fix the defense while Cousins has a $45 million cap hit.
 

howeda7 said:
Statistically they may be similar, but who would you take to lead a TD drive in the last two minutes? Stafford every time and it's not close.
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Really? Based on what?

How many times did the Rams need Stafford to lead a TD drive in the last two minutes? I may get embarrassed on this, if it was a lot. I have no idea, I don't follow the league much to be honest outside the Vikings.

Cousins did lead us on some game winners this past season, did he not?

howeda7 said:
Yes. But only for the first few years. In his last several they were pathetic. And they never had a running game.
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OK. I don't follow your point.

Why does this prove Stafford is better than Cousins?

howeda7 said:
The Vikings offense is already almost as talented as the Rams.
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Why?? Our offense, with Jefferson and Cook healthy and playing, was mostly disappointing towards the end of the season.

Like, pretty much after that explosive first half against a tired and not-ready Pittsburgh .... I feel like they didn't do jack s__t the rest of the year when they were needed. Of course the last game was meaningless so they showed up. (I didn't even tune into that one)

howeda7 said:
The difference is the defense. And we can't fix the defense while Cousins has a $45 million cap hit.
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He only had a $31M hit last year. Defense sucked.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Really? Based on what?

How many times did the Rams need Stafford to lead a TD drive in the last two minutes? I may get embarrassed on this, if it was a lot. I have no idea, I don't follow the league much to be honest outside the Vikings.

Cousins did lead us on some game winners this past season, did he not?
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At least a couple, including the Super Bowl and NFC Championship.

Cousins did have a couple in 2021, yes. Overall, he hasn't been good in those spots. He's one of the worst QB's in the league when under pressure. Stafford is one of the best. Cousins is near the top in the league when he has a clean pocket, but that's not always going to be the case, especially in play-off games.

Gophers_4life said:
OK. I don't follow your point.

Why does this prove Stafford is better than Cousins?
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Stafford put up similar #'s to Cousins with inferior talent surrounding him. When he got to LA, he had better talent and his #'s got even better. Cousins already has good talent around him. If we could somehow cut his salary in half, I'd be fine riding with him. But we can't. And he has zero interest in a pay cut or significant restructure. So trade him. It's not a tough call, IMO.
 




howeda7 said:
And he has zero interest in a pay cut or significant restructure. So trade him. It's not a tough call, IMO.
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You (and a lot of people) keep saying this over and over and the only thing we have to go on is a posturing agent trying to lay some initial groundwork for his client's upcoming contract negotiation.

Again, what do you think his agent is going to say? There is literally zero, ZERO downside to playing it this way for his agent. When the contract comes in at a lower number, which it absolutely 100% will, it looks like Cousins was willing to play ball.

$37M or $38M is a discount from $45M, and I would expect the number to come in around $37/$38M. Absolutely stupid for Cousins to take much less, and stupid for the Vikings to pay much more.
 

Gophers_4life said:
I can't tell if you're serious or if this is a play on the Joe Burrow 9" measurement Tweet he made:

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Half joking and half serious.

8.5" is very small, especially for someone who's 6'3", and would be the smallest in the NFL. Hand size can be a factor, especially when it comes to fumbles, and Pickett fumbled 26 times in college.

It's just another data point to consider. There have been quite a few successful QBs with hands in the lower 9" range. But that's still a step up from 8.5".
 

howeda7 said:
At least a couple, including the Super Bowl and NFC Championship.

Cousins did have a couple in 2021, yes. Overall, he hasn't been good in those spots. He's one of the worst QB's in the league when under pressure. Stafford is one of the best. Cousins is near the top in the league when he has a clean pocket, but that's not always going to be the case, especially in play-off games.


Stafford put up similar #'s to Cousins with inferior talent surrounding him. When he got to LA, he had better talent and his #'s got even better. Cousins already has good talent around him. If we could somehow cut his salary in half, I'd be fine riding with him. But we can't. And he has zero interest in a pay cut or significant restructure. So trade him. It's not a tough call, IMO.
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OK. Cool.

I still would put them in the same "tier", and especially the same "style" of player. Neither looks or plays anything like Mahomes or Kyler. But you can still win it all with that "type" of QB, as the Rams just proved.
 



Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Do you honestly think Stafford is going to continue playing at that number moving forward?
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Isn't he under contract to do so? What recourse does he have?

He could've signed a one year deal, if he felt that he was likely to have success and therefore be able to get a better deal the second year.
 

Ogee - I think the issue for some people is this:

We have seen QB's like Brady and Mahomes agree to restructure their contracts to lower their cap hits - so that the team could acquire more talent at other positions and improve their chances of winning.

Now, if Cousins does that, I will gladly line up to praise him.

But, as of yet, Cousins has not done that.

To me, that is part of being a "leader" - being willing to say I will give up something to help make the team better. Again, still waiting for Cousins to do that.

We shall see.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Isn't he under contract to do so? What recourse does he have?

He could've signed a one year deal, if he felt that he was likely to have success and therefore be able to get a better deal the second year.
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Stafford is also entering the final year of his contract. He's only about a half year older than Cousins, but he's also made nearly 65 million more than Cousins over his career.

He will definitely get a bigger contract when he's either extended or signs elsewhere as a FA after the season.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Stafford is also entering the final year of his contract. He's only about a half year older than Cousins, but he's also made nearly 65 million more than Cousins over his career.

He will definitely get a bigger contract when he's either extended or signs elsewhere as a FA after the season.
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So in both cases it would seem, they're looking to just play out their contracts.
 

Obviously, Stafford has proven that he is something actually worth extending. So maybe the Rams will want to do that.

Cousins hasn't done jack squat to actually earn the desire to extend him.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Ogee - I think the issue for some people is this:

We have seen QB's like Brady and Mahomes agree to restructure their contracts to lower their cap hits - so that the team could acquire more talent at other positions and improve their chances of winning.

Now, if Cousins does that, I will gladly line up to praise him.

But, as of yet, Cousins has not done that.

To me, that is part of being a "leader" - being willing to say I will give up something to help make the team better. Again, still waiting for Cousins to do that.

We shall see.
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You're not dealing in reality here, honestly. Brady's contract probably accounts for less than 25% (maybe a lot less?) of his family's household income. He's married to a super model. That's a horrible comparison. Mahomes signed a $400M deal and also has infinitely more endorsement deals than a player like Cousins.

This has nothing to do with being a team player or a "leader". Dak held out forever for his big dollar deal and he hasn't accomplished shit, nobody talked about him not being a leader, just what he "deserved". Let's at least be honest here about any discussion about being a "leader"; there's a certain crowd that hates Cousins for not getting the vax, even though many other players like Lamar Jackson held the same opinion and never took nearly as much flak.

As a previous post pointed out; he played for less money in previous years and the team still struggled. The salary cap is increasing for 2022 by roughly $26M if I'm not mistaken.

Again, I just don't get the argument; do you or anyone else honestly believe that the Vikings being a Super Bowl contender hinges on Cousins signing an extension for $37M/year or for $33-34M/year? You can't possibly believe that.
 

In the salary cap era, no team has ever won the Super Bowl with one player making more than 15% of the salary cap. Cousins at $45 million is over 20% of the 2022 cap. They'd have to cut his salary cap # to $30 million to get under that threshold.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Again, I just don't get the argument; do you or anyone else honestly believe that the Vikings being a Super Bowl contender hinges on Cousins signing an extension for $37M/year or for $33-34M/year? You can't possibly believe that.
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Then why would Cousins even want to stay here???

Doesn't he want to go somewhere that will try to give him a Rams-Stafford-like situation?

Every year here that he wastes, is like a bar of gold slipping through his hands.
 

Bad Gopher said:
It's worth noting that that's still more than an inch better than the average male. Didn't want anyone here to feel inadequate.
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I’m pretty sure the average size of hands are much smaller than that. My wife tells me all the time that my “hands” are much bigger than normal. There’s no way she’s lying.
 


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