All Things 2022 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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Must be some truth to Kirk not taking pay cut cuz PA commented on Kirk’s love of money.
 


Gophers_4life said:
So ... if it costs $45M either way ..... and keeping Cousins gets you 6-11 ... while cutting him gets you 3-14 and a much higher pick ..... WTF is the difference in those records???

Cut. His. Ass.
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A much higher pick? So you have just as much of a chance of drafting Jameis Winston, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Mitch Trubisky, Jared Goff, Marcus Mariota or Tua as you do of drafting Justin Herbert or Josh Allen?
 


Ogee Oglethorpe said:
So let's say they sign him for $38/yr for 3 years...

$38M for 2022 will be a lot, but not catastrophic.

$38M for 2023, with a projected healthy increase in the league salary cap, will be probably a decent number for him if he keeps playing at the same level

$38M for 2024, if he's still around, will be a bargain in light of where the salary cap is projected to be

I'm not saying I like it or it's what I would do, I'm just saying what's probably going to happen. It probably sounds like I'm a major Cousins proponent but honestly, it's just that I'm not the absolute hater that a good chunk of the fans seem to be.

As it's been since Cousins arrived in MN, he is almost half a dozen notches down the list of the Vikings' issues
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That makes sense. And I think the Vikings can be a playoff team again with Cousins, I just don't see them winning a Super Bowl with him. If he can't win them a Super Bowl, I want them to ride out the last year with him or trade him, and find a QB who can.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
That's just not true, the defense did and a lot of missed draft picks.
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The defense was crappy because they had a disproportionate amount of resources tied up in a very average QB. You have a point on the drafting. Spielman's trading pattern that resulted in having a combined 4-6 picks in the sixth and seventh rounds every year was consistently unproductive. He outsmarted himself.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
So let's say they sign him for $38/yr for 3 years...

$38M for 2022 will be a lot, but not catastrophic.

$38M for 2023, with a projected healthy increase in the league salary cap, will be probably a decent number for him if he keeps playing at the same level

$38M for 2024, if he's still around, will be a bargain in light of where the salary cap is projected to be

I'm not saying I like it or it's what I would do, I'm just saying what's probably going to happen. It probably sounds like I'm a major Cousins proponent but honestly, it's just that I'm not the absolute hater that a good chunk of the fans seem to be.

As it's been since Cousins arrived in MN, he is almost half a dozen notches down the list of the Vikings' issues
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Another way to look at it when trying to figure out Cousins' future with the team is to look around the league and try to determine his true market value. Is there another team in the league that would pay him $38M/year for three years? I haven't done any research, but my guess is the answer is no. His FMV is probably $25M-$28M/year for three years. If that's the case, aren't the Vikings better off riding it out with Cousins this year, drafting the (hopefully) right QB on a rookie contract and spending the approx $60M differential elsewhere instead of on a player with a career .500 record.

Cousins is who he is. He's a statue with a very accurate arm who needs a clean pocket and who doesn't take chances. That's not a recipe for going deep in the playoffs. Why keep him for three years?
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
A much higher pick? So you have just as much of a chance of drafting Jameis Winston, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Mitch Trubisky, Jared Goff, Marcus Mariota or Tua as you do of drafting Justin Herbert or Josh Allen?
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You're not wrong.

Still, doesn't it seem like the Alabama QB is pretty obvious? I suppose the same was said about the others you list.

I'm hopeful that advanced analytics can help the situation, with our new GM embracing that.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The Vikings aren't cutting him and taking a 45 million hit for nothing.
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I'm certain that you win the argument.

But, do you disagree that 3-14 with a higher pick is a better outcome than 6-11 with a lower pick? If so, why?

IF it's just a one year blip.
 
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jamiche said:
Another way to look at it when trying to figure out Cousins' future with the team is to look around the league and try to determine his true market value. Is there another team in the league that would pay him $38M/year for three years? I haven't done any research, but my guess is the answer is no. His FMV is probably $25M-$28M/year for three years. If that's the case, aren't the Vikings better off riding it out with Cousins this year, drafting the (hopefully) right QB on a rookie contract and spending the approx $60M differential elsewhere instead of on a player with a career .500 record.

Cousins is who he is. He's a statue with a very accurate arm who needs a clean pocket and who doesn't take chances. That's not a recipe for going deep in the playoffs. Why keep him for three years?
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Cousins is a guy who can get it done, if everything else goes nearly perfectly.

You need a low injury rate and you need great protection. Then, yes.


He can't overcome "bad luck" and elevate a team himself.
 

jamiche said:
Another way to look at it when trying to figure out Cousins' future with the team is to look around the league and try to determine his true market value. Is there another team in the league that would pay him $38M/year for three years? I haven't done any research, but my guess is the answer is no.
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The funny thing is, this is exactly the way I was looking at it when the Cowboys were dealing with Dak; who in the world are the Cowboys competing with? I think they made a huge mistake. I think there are more teams that would pay Cousins $38M/yr than there are teams that would pay Dak $40M.

The Vikings are in a tough spot; not the worst, but not a great spot. Sure, they need a QB better than Cousins, but the chances of venturing out and getting one, at least when you look at this QB draft and their draft position, are not good at all.

Maybe if the Vikings can keep some continuity at the OC position for more than a season Cousins can get more comfortable and elevate his level of play even more. The OC under Zim was a revolving door
 

Hence why it is perfectly valid to tank for one year, and go for a QB in the 2023 draft.

How is that not obvious or valid?
 

All W-L record in the NFL that don't make the playoffs, are exactly the same, in terms of what you "accomplished" in the season. It's entirely binary. You failed.

I can't possibly wrap my head around the idea that going 6-11 is "better" than going 3-14. They're exactly the same failure. You just get a better draft position with one, than the other.
 



Gophers_4life said:
I'm certain that you win the argument.

But, do you disagree that 3-14 with a higher pick is a better outcome than 6-11 with a lower pick? If so, why?

IF it's just a one year blip.
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I think they can, and will be much better than 6-11 next season with Cousins. The Vikings ownership and new coaching staff wants to compete next season, not tank. If Green Bay loses Rodgers, who is better in the division than the Vikings?
 

jamiche said:
The defense was crappy because they had a disproportionate amount of resources tied up in a very average QB. You have a point on the drafting. Spielman's trading pattern that resulted in having a combined 4-6 picks in the sixth and seventh rounds every year was consistently unproductive. He outsmarted himself.
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Their defense was crappy because players like Hunter, Barr, and Pierce were injured most of the season. Cousins contract may hold them back this upcoming season, but it wasn't the last few seasons, and they invested plenty in other players on both offense and defense.
 


Gophers_4life said:
Hence why it is perfectly valid to tank for one year, and go for a QB in the 2023 draft.

How is that not obvious or valid?
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It's so hard to plan for acquiring a "franchise" QB, especially in the draft. A great one has to be there, you have to be or get in position, and you can't find yourself screwing yourself out of a hall-of-fame talent at another position because you're dead-set on quarterback hunting. That's how we ended up with Ponder: "This is the day I draft my quarterback of the future!"
 


Gophers_4life said:
Really? At 45M cap hit?

I don't see any chance.

And I don't want Cousins extended any further. Rock, hard place.
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Who are they losing of significance off of last years team that's not under contract for this season? With better coaching they would have likely made the playoffs.

Cousins isn't the only contract that they can restructure or shed to free up money. Plus there is the draft.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Who are they losing of significance off of last years team that's not under contract for this season? With better coaching they would have likely made the playoffs.

Cousins isn't the only contract that they can restructure or shed to free up money. Plus there is the draft.
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They're mostly all under contract ... but you still have to come in under the cap.

If Cousins can simply decree that he won't take a pay cut, why should anyone else have to?


I don't agree that keeping Cousins, but having to get rid of Thielen, Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, Harrison Smith, leads us to better than 6-11.

When the offense was doing really well, for that short period last year, it was because Cousins to Thielen was working really well.

We can't just rely on Cook and Jefferson. That's too easy to shut down.



One good thing is that hopefully we'll have Irv Smith Jr back.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Who are they losing of significance off of last years team that's not under contract for this season? With better coaching they would have likely made the playoffs.

Cousins isn't the only contract that they can restructure or shed to free up money. Plus there is the draft.
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Fine line between winning and losing. I've said it before, I could fairly easily make the argument that they would have made the playoffs each of the last two seasons with a healthy Hunter playing 16-17 games. He's an elite player at a premium position, and in the Vikings case the gap between him and the player behind him was Grand Canyon-esque. The games he missed with the Vikings were catastrophic. If he's on the field, the secondary doesn't look NEARLY as bad.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Fine line between winning and losing. I've said it before, I could fairly easily make the argument that they would have made the playoffs each of the last two seasons with a healthy Hunter playing 16-17 games. He's an elite player at a premium position, and in the Vikings case the gap between him and the player behind him was Grand Canyon-esque. The games he missed with the Vikings were catastrophic. If he's on the field, the secondary doesn't look NEARLY as bad.
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Can't afford him if Cousins hit is $45M. Yes, you've made it clear you think there's no chance in hell it will stay that way.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Their defense was crappy because players like Hunter, Barr, and Pierce were injured most of the season. Cousins contract may hold them back this upcoming season, but it wasn't the last few seasons, and they invested plenty in other players on both offense and defense.
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Players are always going to get hurt. When you have so much money tied up in one mediocre player you can't purchase decent depth elsewhere.
 

jamiche said:
Players are always going to get hurt. When you have so much money tied up in one mediocre player you can't purchase decent depth elsewhere.
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Most teams don't purchase depth, they purchase starters and draft depth.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Most teams don't purchase depth, they purchase starters and draft depth.
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Fifteen of the Vikings twenty two starters last season were drafted by the team. Your point holds. They had to start too many mediocre players because they didn't have the money to sign decent free agents. Too many dollars tied up with Cousins. There will always be injuries. You have to have the money available to build a deep roster.
 

And on the converse, I think the Rams were one of the best with injuries?

The Vikings "should have" made the playoffs last year, with ridiculously how many games were close yet we lost. Cousins cap hit last year was $31M.

They were supposed to have Gladney. Supposed to have Hunter back. Spiel signed a bunch of free agents and drafted two OL, to try to push it over the top. Signed Mason Cole later on.

Football gods laughed for trying so hard to force it to happen, and gave the middle finger.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I think they can, and will be much better than 6-11 next season with Cousins. The Vikings ownership and new coaching staff wants to compete next season, not tank. If Green Bay loses Rodgers, who is better in the division than the Vikings?
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🐻
🐱
 

starting to look as if Rodgers may be back with the Pack. the Pack just rehired his favorite QB's coach - even brought the guy out of retirement.

It looks as if the Packers have made up their minds to grovel and give Rodgers everything he wants to keep him around.

Also worth noting - when Rodgers broke up with his latest celebrity girlfriend, one stated reason was that Rodgers wants to focus on football.
 

Well then in that case, Denver better hurry up and give us a first rounder for Cousins.

IDGAF who starts next year, so long as they're cheap. Fine with Mond, quite frankly. Or sign Mannion, Teddy, or someone like that.
 

jamiche said:
Another way to look at it when trying to figure out Cousins' future with the team is to look around the league and try to determine his true market value. Is there another team in the league that would pay him $38M/year for three years? I haven't done any research, but my guess is the answer is no. His FMV is probably $25M-$28M/year for three years. If that's the case, aren't the Vikings better off riding it out with Cousins this year, drafting the (hopefully) right QB on a rookie contract and spending the approx $60M differential elsewhere instead of on a player with a career .500 record.

Cousins is who he is. He's a statue with a very accurate arm who needs a clean pocket and who doesn't take chances. That's not a recipe for going deep in the playoffs. Why keep him for three years?
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His cost to another team for 2022 is $35 million. In this market that's not unreasonable. Even if he refuses to sign an extension, they can still get a 3rd-5th round pick for him.
 

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