All Things 2022 Minnesota High School Football Thread

Some guy

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It absolutely did impact the play. For you to not acknowledge that just shows your ignorance to the game of football.
Perhaps we should call holding or face asking or illegal formation either if it isn’t right at the point of attack
 


GophersInIowa

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I'm saying that I'm just fine that the refs missed this call. They're not perfect.

Would've been a damn shame if this tremendous play had never happened due to a ticky tack call, which is what it would've been.
I mean that was about as blatant of a violation of the rule that there is. Wouldn't call it ticky tack.
 

Gophers_4life

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I mean that was about as blatant of a violation of the rule that there is. Wouldn't call it ticky tack.
Blatant violation of .... a rule that didn't affect the play?

There is probably a rule against wearing different colored socks, too.
 

Some guy

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Blatant violation of .... a rule that didn't affect the play?

There is probably a rule against wearing different colored socks, too.
Advocating a change in the rules to legalize multiple guys in motion is a better argument than the one you are currently making
 


Gophers_4life

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Current argument is nothing more than, I'm glad the refs missed it. Didn't affect the play a single iota, and what an incredible play it was.

They deserved to win, with a play like that. Glad they did
 


Gophers_4life

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^ trying to pretend like the kid did a Canadian Football play.

Good grief. The degree to which a violation affects a play or not is not only black or white in the slightest.
 

short ornery norwegian

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we're talking about HS refs. not college or pro refs.

If you want to get picky, you could probably call a penalty on every play of every game, if you were going by the strict letter of the rules.

I suspect that a lot of refs - either consciously or unconsciously - ignore or miss quite a few minor or ticky-tack infractions because they don't want to turn every game into 'flag-ball.'

as far as the play in the Prep Bowl game, I think it's a lot simpler. the refs didn't see it, and they can't call what they didn't see. I choose to believe that over negligence or some evil plot.
 



GFBfan

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Blatant violation of .... a rule that didn't affect the play?

There is probably a rule against wearing different colored socks, too.
There are many penalties that don't affect the play. Are you advocating that they don't get called just because of the result?
If a WR runs a route and pushes off to gain separation but the pass is thrown to the other side of the field should the offensive pass interference not be called?
How about a team with only 6 guys on the LOS at the start of a play. Should a penalty not be called if they go and score a TD on that play?

Again, your ignorance to the game and rules of football is shining through.
 

GFBfan

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we're talking about HS refs. not college or pro refs.

If you want to get picky, you could probably call a penalty on every play of every game, if you were going by the strict letter of the rules.

I suspect that a lot of refs - either consciously or unconsciously - ignore or miss quite a few minor or ticky-tack infractions because they don't want to turn every game into 'flag-ball.'

as far as the play in the Prep Bowl game, I think it's a lot simpler. the refs didn't see it, and they can't call what they didn't see. I choose to believe that over negligence or some evil plot.
I don't believe there was an evil plot. I just think they missed the call and it was a big one to miss as it changed the outcome of the game in a very dramatic way.

The play was unbelievable by NLS.
 

GFBfan

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Blatant violation of .... a rule that didn't affect the play?

There is probably a rule against wearing different colored socks, too.
This was a pre-snap penalty and by them not throwing a flag it did impact the play and the outcome of the game. Their illegal motion/shift, makes the play not count, moves them back 5 and then they try again.
 

Some guy

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^ trying to pretend like the kid did a Canadian Football play.

Good grief. The degree to which a violation affects a play or not is not only black or white in the slightest.
Procedural penalties are literally black and white

There are a lot of judgement calls. This isn’t one of them. It’s fine if you want to disagree with the rules and think they should be change
 




Gophers_4life

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There are many penalties that don't affect the play. Are you advocating that they don't get called just because of the result?
If every penalty that actually happened was actually called, you'd never be able to play the game.
 


Some guy

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Since the kid was running at full speed towards the LOS when the ball was snapped, right?
:rolleyes:
You are correct. The play would’ve been illegal in Canada as well

Edit nope I’m wrong

I don’t know the Canadian rules 😂
 
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disco

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I suspect that a lot of refs - either consciously or unconsciously - ignore or miss quite a few minor or ticky-tack infractions because they don't want to turn every game into 'flag-ball.'
I can tell you at the youth level (and as a coach, I read the referees handbook...) that they are absolutely instructed to not call penalties such as holding if they are away from the play and have no impact on it, for exactly this reason.

In the case of this game, I doubt it affected the game that the kid wasn't set, but it is something that should have been obviously seen and called.
 

Some guy

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I can tell you at the youth level (and as a coach, I read the referees handbook...) that they are absolutely instructed to not call penalties such as holding if they are away from the play and have no impact on it, for exactly this reason.

In the case of this game, I doubt it affected the game that the kid wasn't set, but it is something that should have been obviously seen and called.
It 100% effected the game. Most high school teams adjust their coverage to formations. As the offense was never set they never declared a formation. This if the defense was calling based on formation they may have never gotten their call in

This isn’t a judgement call. It’s just straight up illegal
 

MaxyJR1

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we're talking about HS refs. not college or pro refs.

If you want to get picky, you could probably call a penalty on every play of every game, if you were going by the strict letter of the rules.

I suspect that a lot of refs - either consciously or unconsciously - ignore or miss quite a few minor or ticky-tack infractions because they don't want to turn every game into 'flag-ball.'

as far as the play in the Prep Bowl game, I think it's a lot simpler. the refs didn't see it, and they can't call what they didn't see. I choose to believe that over negligence or some evil plot.
Absolutely true. They missed it. No way they saw it and ignored it, they just missed the call. It happens all the time and costs teams, but it's part of the game. No one likes flag ball and if you flag or warn early in the game, it usually cleans things up. It's always harder to swallow when it's the last play and game is on the line.
 

State of Football

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Absolutely true. They missed it. No way they saw it and ignored it, they just missed the call. It happens all the time and costs teams, but it's part of the game. No one likes flag ball and if you flag or warn early in the game, it usually cleans things up. It's always harder to swallow when it's the last play and game is on the line.
Well said.
 

GoForGold

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Absolutely true. They missed it. No way they saw it and ignored it, they just missed the call. It happens all the time and costs teams, but it's part of the game. No one likes flag ball and if you flag or warn early in the game, it usually cleans things up. It's always harder to swallow when it's the last play and game is on the line.
I agree, it's tough to take when you have no more time on the clock to make up for a bad call/no call. I believe this kind of thing is not reviewable at any level. For example, you see offsides or illegal procedure that doesn't get called or doesn't get called the right way a lot. The game always goes on.
 

GFBfan

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I can tell you at the youth level (and as a coach, I read the referees handbook...) that they are absolutely instructed to not call penalties such as holding if they are away from the play and have no impact on it, for exactly this reason.

In the case of this game, I doubt it affected the game that the kid wasn't set, but it is something that should have been obviously seen and called.
It absolutely did affect the game as the team committing the illegal motion won the game on that last play. It was obvious that he never was set.
 

Gopherchase

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No, for example if they see an egregious example of holding, then they should call that right where they see it.


It wasn't like the kid did some Canadian Football League full sprint going forward as the ball was being hiked. That's what some of you are acting like.

He was perfectly lateral and had slowed down to zero momentum, he just wasn't perfectly set. Didn't gain an iota of advantage from that.

Would have been super ticky tack.
Dumb.
 

State of Football

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I agree, it's tough to take when you have no more time on the clock to make up for a bad call/no call. I believe this kind of thing is not reviewable at any level. For example, you see offsides or illegal procedure that doesn't get called or doesn't get called the right way a lot. The game always goes on.
You are correct, this play was not reviewable. Unfortunately it was a missed call. It happens at all levels. Many of the white hats are also NCAA officials too.
 

MisterGopher

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Congrats!

Now that the prep bowl is over, I feel like it is OK to ask this in this thread.


I had never heard of either Mt. Iron or Buhl. Looked them up on Google maps. Buhl is about ~7mi East of Chisholm, right on 169. Mt. Iron is about ~5mi West of Virginia, right on 169.

.... how do these two little towns have separate school district from the two larger communities, right there?? I don't understand why that makes sense. Why wouldn't Buhl kids just go to Chisholm, and why wouldn't Mt Iron kids just go to Virginia?
It has to do with the history of individual communities that grew up around different mines to support the workforce needs of those mines. During the mining boom each community was large enough to support separate schools. The communities became very independent and rivalries developed. With the decline of the mining industry the populations shrunk greatly requiring consolidation. They still wanted to remain as independent as possible, so smaller schools combined instead of merging with larger schools.
 

disco

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Mt. Iron - Buhl shows an enrollment of 136, so about 34 kids per class. There are a number of smaller public schools in the state.
 

Gophers_4life

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Mt. Iron - Buhl shows an enrollment of 136, so about 34 kids per class. There are a number of smaller public schools in the state.
But what are the distances of those schools to the respective next public secondary school?

Guessing in most cases a lot longer than 5mi to Virginia at 443, which is merging with Eveleth at 246 to make a new combined high school, 7mi to Chisholm at 185, and 12mi to Hibbing at 596.

Absolute minimum it makes zero sense for MIB not to be merged with Chisholm. More kids is less overhead and more opportunities.

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default...llments-for-2021-22-and-2022-23-by-enroll.pdf


Info on Virginia Eveleth merger: https://bringmethenews.com/minnesot...a-hockey-schools-consolidate-to-form-new-team
 

cheeseheadgophfan

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I would have to rewatch. But I thought they were set and shifted but never reset


Even if that is the case,
Art 6…after a huddle or shift all 11 players of A shall come to an absolute stop and shall remain stationary simultaneously without movement of hands, feet, head or body for at least one second before snap

This is defined as illegal shift which is not a dead ball penalty


The rule you described being a dead ball is an ncaa rule not a nfhs rule
First of all....I come in peace. Just have a question so don't start calling me an idiot.
Couldn't the argument be made that this wasn't s "shift"? It looks to me like as they break the huddle, the two players moving realize they were on the wrong side of the play. Player on the bottom gets set, with Player #2 going in motion......if he's in motion he doesn't have to set for a second, or am I totally off base?
Respectfully,
:D:p
 




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