All Things 2022 Minnesota High School Football Thread

Donate To GopherHole
Gophers_4life said:
Illegal motion would have been the correct call.

No players performed any shifts. The lower player (who started running up, then realized he was supposed to be on the other side) got set before the snap. The top player (who started running down, then realized he was supposed to be on the other side) never got set, and so was illegally in motion before the snap.

Quite simple, really, if you know what you're talking about and actually look at the play closely before spouting off into a rage.
Click to expand...
This is incorrect
 

Gophers_4life said:
Wrong.

No shift ever occurred because neither player ever got set and then moved. That's the definition of what shift a is. The definition of motion is being physically in motion at the snap.
Click to expand...
It's actually an illegal procedure (formation/false start signal). All 11 were never set from the previous play before the snap. Should have been blown dead and called.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Wrong.

No shift ever occurred because neither player ever got set and then moved. That's the definition of what shift a is. The definition of motion is being physically in motion at the snap.
Click to expand...
This is incorrect
 

MaxyJR1 said:
It's actually an illegal procedure (formation/false start signal). All 11 were never set from the previous play before the snap. Should have been blown dead and called.
Click to expand...
But it is defined as an illegal shift in the rule book. Dead ball foul though you are correct
 

Gophers_4life said:
Wrong.

No shift ever occurred because neither player ever got set and then moved. That's the definition of what shift a is. The definition of motion is being physically in motion at the snap.
Click to expand...
This is incorrect per 7-2-6
Where if all 11 never get set after a huddle for one full second it is an illegal shift


The big difference being illegal shift is a team penalty and illegal motion is an individual penalty
If the team never gets set it is on the team not the individual
 


MaxyJR1 said:
It's actually an illegal procedure (formation/false start signal). All 11 were never set from the previous play before the snap. Should have been blown dead and called.
Click to expand...
Sure.

No shift ever occurred, per the well known definition of what a shift is. Therefore, it is not an illegal shift.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Sure.

No shift ever occurred, per the well known definition of what a shift is. Therefore, it is not an illegal shift.
Click to expand...
This is not a thing.
Not sure what your own personal definition of a shift is, but this is what the rule book defines it as

SECTION 39 SHIFT
A shift is the action of one or more offensive players who, after a huddle or after taking set positions, move to a new set position before the ensuing snap.
 

New set position = there was a previous set position. Therefore, cannot apply to someone who never became set out of the huddle.

Words mean what their definitions are.


For anyone interested in the definition of shift vs motion, I invite you to read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_(gridiron_football)

There is a distinction drawn between a shift and motion in football. Motion occurs when a player is moving at the time of the snap. A shift occurs when one or more players changes their position on the offensive side of the ball before the snap, causing a change in formation. For example, players may line up initially in an I-formation and then shift the two running backs into wide receiver positions to put the offense in a spread formation. A team may shift any number of players into new positions, so long as they all come to a complete stop for a full second before the ball is snapped to start the play.
 

Some guy said:
This is not a thing.
Not sure what your own personal definition of a shift is, but this is what the rule book defines it as

SECTION 39 SHIFT
A shift is the action of one or more offensive players who, after a huddle or after taking set positions, move to a new set position before the ensuing snap.
Click to expand...
Correct. Going from a huddle to a position is considered a shift.
 




Gophers_4life said:
New set position = there was a previous set position. Therefore, cannot apply to someone who never became set out of the huddle.

Words mean what their definitions are.


For anyone interested in the definition of shift vs motion, I invite you to read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_(gridiron_football)

There is a distinction drawn between a shift and motion in football. Motion occurs when a player is moving at the time of the snap. A shift occurs when one or more players changes their position on the offensive side of the ball before the snap, causing a change in formation. For example, players may line up initially in an I-formation and then shift the two running backs into wide receiver positions to put the offense in a spread formation. A team may shift any number of players into new positions, so long as they all come to a complete stop for a full second before the ball is snapped to start the play.
Click to expand...
Really Wikipedia?

There are all kinds of rules that designate what a player can and can't do in order to shift or go in motion legally. You're trying to distract from the fact the team did something illegal, and it wasn't caught.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Really Wikipedia?

There are all kinds of rules that designate what a player can and can't do in order to shift or go in motion legally. You're trying to distract from the fact the team did something illegal, and it wasn't caught.
Click to expand...
How so? I've acknowledged multiple times that it was a penalty and should have been flagged.

I'm simply saying I'm glad it didn't get caught, because the play was so awesome.
 

By the way, in the NFL there is no such thing as "Illegal Shift". They only have "Illegal Motion".

NFL gets it right
 




No it is correct.

The National Football League defines all motion and shift penalties as "illegal motion"
 



MNVCGUY said:
I mean I want to look away and stop clicking on this thread but it is fascinating to see just how long the argument can go on knowing that neither side is ever going to give in and admit they are wrong......this thread could go on forever..... :)
Click to expand...
Nuh-Uh!!!!

/s
 





Alright, reading the NFL rulebook explanation was helpful.


I admit defeat. I take the Loss. It would be an illegal shift.



And I'm glad it was not called. :) Would've been a ticky-tack call to nullify such a great play. :)
 


Is it Fall yet?

on the bright side, at some point in the Spring, the MSHSL will come out with new Section assignments and new District Football assignments. that will give the fellows something new to argue about.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Is it Fall yet?

on the bright side, at some point in the Spring, the MSHSL will come out with new Section assignments and new District Football assignments. that will give the fellows something new to argue about.
Click to expand...
Do you think they will have solved the shift vs. motion debate by then? Is that enough time?...
 

MNVCGUY said:
I'm pretty sure they can keep this going for at least another 10 pages or so....maybe we should start a betting pool on just how long it will go......
Click to expand...
Just mention something about suburban high school enrollment and how wealthy "those" schools are and you'll probably get another 10 pages from G4L.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Wrong. It's illegal shift as two players shifted and both never reset. Illegal motion is moving forward at the snap (not simulating the snap) or going in motion from being on the line.
Click to expand...
And they were set at one time. Illegal shift according to the Rules Book
 

Gophers_4life said:
Gophers_4life said:
Alright, reading the NFL rulebook explanation was helpful.


I admit defeat. I take the Loss. It would be an illegal shift.



And I'm glad it was not called. :) Would've been a ticky-tack call to nullify such a great play. :)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
For the sake of this thread, I believe there would have been nothing to nullify. Those illegal shift penalties (players never come to a stop prior to the snap) convert into false starts and should have been blown dead.

If they would have properly made the call, there would not have even been a play and we would never have even had this debate.

So now I'm really pissed about the call.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom