All Things 2022 Minnesota High School Football Thread

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Some guy said:
I guarantee the opposing coaches saw that.
They literally lost the state title on an illegal play.
If the flag was correctly thrown the game is literally over as no time left on the clock and it can end on an offensive penalty.
The refs not enforcing the rules cost one team a state title
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Officials are taught to blow it dead if all 11 aren't set at one point before snap. If it was it would have been a 5 yard penalty and replay with 4 seconds. You also can't have a period end on an accepted penalty (had they let the play go and called the illegal shift), so the penalty would have been 5 yards from previous spot and they would have had an untimed down. So had it been called, NLS would have still got to run a play.
 


GFBfan said:
#1 for them is the safety furthest away from the pass, but doesn't move the direction of the pass as much as he could have had #7 not been running a route down the middle.
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#7 waits half a second longer, and is now set, and runs the exact same route.

Exact same thing happens.


Ticky tack. Didn't change the outcome. Tremendous effort, won the game.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Officials are taught to blow it dead if all 11 aren't set at one point before snap. If it was it would have been a 5 yard penalty and replay with 4 seconds. You also can't have a period end on an accepted penalty (had they let the play go and called the illegal shift), so the penalty would have been 5 yards from previous spot and they would have had an untimed down. So had it been called, NLS would have still got to run a play.
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Yep.

They run the exact same play, this time with the guy waiting half a second longer and now set. Exact same outcome happens.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Officials are taught to blow it dead if all 11 aren't set at one point before snap. If it was it would have been a 5 yard penalty and replay with 4 seconds. You also can't have a period end on an accepted penalty (had they let the play go and called the illegal shift), so the penalty would have been 5 yards from previous spot and they would have had an untimed down. So had it been called, NLS would have still got to run a play.
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I would have to rewatch. But I thought they were set and shifted but never reset


Even if that is the case,
Art 6…after a huddle or shift all 11 players of A shall come to an absolute stop and shall remain stationary simultaneously without movement of hands, feet, head or body for at least one second before snap

This is defined as illegal shift which is not a dead ball penalty


The rule you described being a dead ball is an ncaa rule not a nfhs rule
 
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Gophers_4life said:
Congrats!

Now that the prep bowl is over, I feel like it is OK to ask this in this thread.


I had never heard of either Mt. Iron or Buhl. Looked them up on Google maps. Buhl is about ~7mi East of Chisholm, right on 169. Mt. Iron is about ~5mi West of Virginia, right on 169.

.... how do these two little towns have separate school district from the two larger communities, right there?? I don't understand why that makes sense. Why wouldn't Buhl kids just go to Chisholm, and why wouldn't Mt Iron kids just go to Virginia?
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We discussed this very early in the thread. School districts are units of government (with power of taxation) that grew from consolidation of rural districts over the years. The voters would have to vote to dissolve or merge the districts. It's not as if the state can just say "you're too small - merge."
 

disco said:
We discussed this very early in the thread. School districts are units of government (with power of taxation) that grew from consolidation of rural districts over the years. The voters would have to vote to dissolve or merge the districts. It's not as if the state can just say "you're too small - merge."
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Sure.

And I get that, decades ago, there was no such thing as driving to school. You walked to school. Obviously back in those days you would never tell a kid to talk 5-7 miles each way, especially in winter. You just went to whatever school was in town.

I don't know when school buses became a normal thing, but probably a several decades ago. Would seem perfectly reasonable that Virginia could/would send buses into Mt Iron and similarly for Chisholm to Buhl, or even both of those to Hibbing!
 

Gophers_4life said:
#7 waits half a second longer, and is now set, and runs the exact same route.

Exact same thing happens.


Ticky tack. Didn't change the outcome. Tremendous effort, won the game.
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By that logic then we should get rid of a lot of penalties.
 

GophersInIowa said:
By that logic then we should get rid of a lot of penalties.
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Nah.

Every play penalties happen. It's still of course correct to give the refs subjective power to call it when it gets egregious and wrongly affects the actual football play.

That didn't happen in this case.
 



Gophers_4life said:
Sure.

And I get that, decades ago, there was no such thing as driving to school. You walked to school. Obviously back in those days you would never tell a kid to talk 5-7 miles each way, especially in winter. You just went to whatever school was in town.

I don't know when school buses became a normal thing, but probably a several decades ago. Would seem perfectly reasonable that Virginia could/would send buses into Mt Iron and similarly for Chisholm to Buhl, or even both of those to Hibbing!
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That's for the taxpayers of the MI-B district to decide. Nobody else.
Once again, it's a unit of government with voters - not a random geographic area.
 

disco said:
That's for the taxpayers of the MI-B district to decide. Nobody else.
Once again, it's a unit of government with voters - not a random geographic area.
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I think they should have decided that.

Why did the what 10-15 districts that eventually merged into the Hopkins district, decide to do that?
 

Gophers_4life said:
.... how do these two little towns have separate school district from the two larger communities, right there?? I don't understand why that makes sense. Why wouldn't Buhl kids just go to Chisholm, and why wouldn't Mt Iron kids just go to Virginia?
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There are many benefits going to a smaller school rather than a bigger one
 

Gophers_4life said:
Nah.

Every play penalties happen. It's still of course correct to give the refs subjective power to call it when it gets egregious and wrongly affects the actual football play.

That didn't happen in this case.
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So you want refs to wait until the play is over before deciding to to throw flags? In this example the play should have been blown dead just like a regular false start.
 



GophersInIowa said:
So you want refs to wait until the play is over before deciding to to throw flags? In this example the play should have been blown dead just like a regular false start.
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No, for example if they see an egregious example of holding, then they should call that right where they see it.


It wasn't like the kid did some Canadian Football League full sprint going forward as the ball was being hiked. That's what some of you are acting like.

He was perfectly lateral and had slowed down to zero momentum, he just wasn't perfectly set. Didn't gain an iota of advantage from that.

Would have been super ticky tack.
 

Gophers_4life said:
No, for example if they see an egregious example of holding, then they should call that right where they see it.


It wasn't like the kid did some Canadian Football League full sprint going forward as the ball was being hiked. That's what some of you are acting like.

He was perfectly lateral and had slowed down to zero momentum, he just wasn't perfectly set. Didn't gain an iota of advantage from that.

Would have been super ticky tack.
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Many offsides and false starts don't give the offending team an advantage but the opposing team would be pissed if it's not called.

Who gets to decide if the offending team gains and advantage or not? Some situations are not so black and white. Either it's a penalty or it's not.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Many offsides and false starts don't give the offending team an advantage but the opposing team would be pissed if it's not called.

Who gets to decide if the offending team gains and advantage or not? Some situations are not so black and white. Either it's a penalty or it's not.
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OL false starts every play. You're taught to jump the snap count to give yourself an advantage. Very difficult to call as a ref if all five are in sync.

DL lines up offsides every play. You're taught to cheat it as much as possible.


The reason why you have to set is merely so that you can't have forward momentum at the snap. That player had none.
 

Gophers_4life said:
I think they should have decided that.

Why did the what 10-15 districts that eventually merged into the Hopkins district, decide to do that?
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Gophers_4life said:
I think they should have decided that.

Why did the what 10-15 districts that eventually merged into the Hopkins district, decide to do that?
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Pretty sure I've posted this before, but I'm not going to dig for the exact statute. In the late 1960's the state passed an education reform bill that required all independent school districts to operate a secondary school. So smaller districts that only had primary schools either had to merge or open a high school. In most cases, this had already happened (the large suburban districts). The biggest example of this was the creation of the St. Michael - Albertville district - the last new ISD created in the state other than mergers and consolidations.

There are a few exceptions today. There are some border communities where the high school has since closed, like Browns Valley, where the kids are sent to school in another state (SD in this case).

There remain two non-operating school districts in Minnesota, and I don't know why they were exempted from the law. One is Prinsburg, which is a small, very conservative town where virtually everyone goes to the church school. The few that do not are bussed to MACCRAY, and the Prinsburg non-op school district has to pay for it.

The second is Franconia, which is between Scandia and Taylors Falls on the St. Croix river. Those kids, few as they must be, go to Osceola, WI. I have no idea why that hasn't been absorbed by either Chisago Lakes or Forest Lake.
 

disco said:
Pretty sure I've posted this before, but I'm not going to dig for the exact statute. In the late 1960's the state passed an education reform bill that required all independent school districts to operate a secondary school. So smaller districts that only had primary schools either had to merge or open a high school. In most cases, this had already happened (the large suburban districts). The biggest example of this was the creation of the St. Michael - Albertville district - the last new ISD created in the state other than mergers and consolidations.

There are a few exceptions today. There are some border communities where the high school has since closed, like Browns Valley, where the kids are sent to school in another state (SD in this case).

There remain two non-operating school districts in Minnesota, and I don't know why they were exempted from the law. One is Prinsburg, which is a small, very conservative town where virtually everyone goes to the church school. The few that do not are bussed to MACCRAY, and the Prinsburg non-op school district has to pay for it.

The second is Franconia, which is between Scandia and Taylors Falls on the St. Croix river. Those kids, few as they must be, go to Osceola, WI. I have no idea why that hasn't been absorbed by either Chisago Lakes or Forest Lake.
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Ah, did not know that about Prinsburg. Had only heard about them lately from the proposed ordinance, which they now backed down on -- please let's not turn this into a political thread.
 

Who are the favorites going into 2023? Usual suspects?
 

Gophers_4life said:
OL false starts every play. You're taught to jump the snap count to give yourself an advantage. Very difficult to call as a ref if all five are in sync.

DL lines up offsides every play. You're taught to cheat it as much as possible.


The reason why you have to set is merely so that you can't have forward momentum at the snap. That player had none.
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Moving forward would be illegal motion, not illegal shift. This was an example of an illegal shift.
 


Gophers_4life said:
Ah, did not know that about Prinsburg. Had only heard about them lately from the proposed ordinance, which they now backed down on -- please let's not turn this into a political thread.
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That's why I didn't bring up the recent issue of Prinsburg being in the news.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Who are the favorites going into 2023? Usual suspects?
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No clue but was publisized that Maple Grove had 46 seniors on their roster so would say there is a very good chance they take a pretty sizable step back next year.
 



Gophers_4life said:
Who cares??

No possible advantage was obtained.
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The call should have been made before anyone could determine if an advantage was obtained.

What it appears you're advocating for is to always let the plays play out and then have the refs decide after the fact if a penalty helped one team.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Nah.

Every play penalties happen. It's still of course correct to give the refs subjective power to call it when it gets egregious and wrongly affects the actual football play.

That didn't happen in this case.
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It absolutely did impact the play. For you to not acknowledge that just shows your ignorance to the game of football.
 

GophersInIowa said:
The call should have been made before anyone could determine if an advantage was obtained.

What it appears you're advocating for is to always let the plays play out and then have the refs decide after the fact if a penalty helped one team.
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I'm saying that I'm just fine that the refs missed this call. They're not perfect.

Would've been a damn shame if this tremendous play had never happened due to a ticky tack call, which is what it would've been.
 

Gophers_4life said:
#7 waits half a second longer, and is now set, and runs the exact same route.

Exact same thing happens.


Ticky tack. Didn't change the outcome. Tremendous effort, won the game.
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Ive seen bad takes, but you take the cake.

Only call penalties according to a "did it have an effect" rubric, which is batshit idiotic on it's face.....but also requires officials to wait UNTIL THE PLAY IS OVER and THEN decide through some sort of magic whether or not the false start, offside, or illegal shift had enough effect.

Good lord, man. Think, then post.
 


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