All Things 2022-2023 Minnesota Twins Off-Season Thread

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Ope3 said:
Mets are ready to win now, I would go with Verlander (reunited) and Scherzer too.

Did the Twins reinstate their $280M offer after the failed physical? I would have pulled that off the table completely.
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Depends what the issue is. Obviously the Mets aren't too concerned about it.
 


Once the Giants deal fell apart the Twins should have offered $325M over ten years with a one time player out after five years. No way Boras and Correa turn that deal down.
 




Trade Kepler for Escobar (may need a 3rd team)

Trade Pagan for a bucket of balls

Sign Taylor Rogers and Michael Fulmer

Sign Eovaldi and move Maeda to the bullpen/rotation depth

SS can be a platoon between Farmer and Polanco. Farmer mashes lefties but isn't good against RH. 2B a platoon between Polanco and Arreaz. 1B between Arreaz/Kiriloff/Miranda.

The bullpen with Rogers, Duran, Lopez, Theilbar, Moran, Jax, Fulmer and Maeda should be very good. The rotation at least decent. It would be a question of Buxton's health and at least one of Larnach/Kiriloff clicking for the offense.
 

this whole thing is weird.

IF the Correa "injury" is some old issue, then why would the Giants use that as a pretext to get out of the deal?

and why is Correa suddenly OK with the idea of moving to 3B?

there is something going on here that has not been made public.
 

howeda7 said:
Trade Kepler for Escobar (may need a 3rd team)

Trade Pagan for a bucket of balls

Sign Taylor Rogers and Michael Fulmer

Sign Eovaldi and move Maeda to the bullpen/rotation depth

SS can be a platoon between Farmer and Polanco. Farmer mashes lefties but isn't good against RH. 2B a platoon between Polanco and Arreaz. 1B between Arreaz/Kiriloff/Miranda.

The bullpen with Rogers, Duran, Lopez, Theilbar, Moran, Jax, Fulmer and Maeda should be very good. The rotation at least decent. It would be a question of Buxton's health and at least one of Larnach/Kiriloff clicking for the offense.
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Lol come on. Escobar? Rogers? Polanco playing SS? Talk about going even further backwards.

I'm going to guess they make a surprise trade or two but not for anyone on this list. I'd like to see some bullpen help but not Rogers, he's as bad as Pagan.

Otherwise it's time to bring up the young guys rather than letting them sit in the minors until they're 25.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Lol come on. Escobar? Rogers? Polanco playing SS? Talk about going even further backwards.

I'm going to guess they make a surprise trade or two but not for anyone on this list. I'd like to see some bullpen help but not Rogers, he's as bad as Pagan.

Otherwise it's time to bring up the young guys rather than letting them sit in the minors until they're 25.
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Backwards to what? Currently their payroll is ~$40 million less than last year. If they don't spend it, it's pocketed by the Pohlads not added to any future years. If they wanted to pivot to a rebuild and trade Gray, Mahle, Meada, Polanco, Lopez etc. that would be one way to go. But giving Joey Gallo $11 million makes it clear they're not doing that. So spend the $$ you have budgeted and try to win then. Currently they're in no-man's land.

None of these moves require long-term commitments and most can be flipped if they are out of the race in July along with everyone mentioned above.

Polanco has started twice as many games at SS in his career as Farmer has. He's slightly below average there. Farmer is almost exactly average. It's not that big of a gap. No reason it can't be platooned with late game substitutions when Polanco starts.

I'd still rather have Urshella, but Escobar now has no starting spot with the Mets and has been solid everywhere he's been and he's a better defender at 3B than Miranda. Miranda can and should be primarily a DH.

Rogers had a bad 2nd half of 2022, but he's not Pagan. He's always been up and down which is why I'm OK taking him on a rebound. Playing time for young players isn't an issue. There will be plenty of AB's/innings available. Who's blocked that you're worried about? I don't need to see 600 AB's from Farmer or another 400 from Celistino.
 
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howeda7 said:
Backwards to what? Currently their payroll is ~$40 million less than last year. If they don't spend it, it's pocketed by the Pohlads not added to any future years. If they wanted to pivot to a rebuild and trade Gray, Mahle, Meada, Polanco, Lopez etc. that would be one way to go. But giving Joey Gallo $11 million makes it clear they're not doing that. So spend the $$ you have budgeted and try to win then. Currently they're in no-man's land.

None of these moves require long-term commitments and most can be flipped if they are out of the race in July along with everyone mentioned above.

Polanco has started twice as many games at SS in his career as Farmer has. He's slightly below average there. Farmer is almost exactly average. It's not that big of a gap. No reason it can't be platooned with late game substitutions when Polanco starts.

I'd still rather have Urshella, but Escobar now has no starting spot with the Mets and has been solid everywhere he's been and he's a better defender at 3B than Miranda. Miranda can and should be primarily a DH.

Rogers had a bad 2nd half of 2022, but he's not Pagan. He's always been up and down which is why I'm OK taking him on a rebound. Playing time for young players isn't an issue. There will be plenty of AB's/innings available. Who's blocked that you're worried about? I don't need to see 600 AB's from Farmer or another 400 from Celistino.
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So just spend money just to spend it? None of your proposed moves do anything to move the needle of success for this team. Like I said, they will likely make moves via trade yet, and there's no point on going and getting journeymen that used to play here before. There are better options.

Miranda is 24 and hasn't even been given the chance to be a full time 3B yet. He deserves at least a full season there. I don't have a problem with Farmer as the SS until either Lewis, Martin, or Lee are ready. If Martin or Lee start the season hot in the minors, bring them up.

You're right Rogers isn't Pagan, he's worse than Pagan. It was far more than just a bad 2nd half last season.
 





howeda7 said:
Trade Kepler for Escobar (may need a 3rd team)

Trade Pagan for a bucket of balls

Sign Taylor Rogers and Michael Fulmer

Sign Eovaldi and move Maeda to the bullpen/rotation depth

SS can be a platoon between Farmer and Polanco. Farmer mashes lefties but isn't good against RH. 2B a platoon between Polanco and Arreaz. 1B between Arreaz/Kiriloff/Miranda.

The bullpen with Rogers, Duran, Lopez, Theilbar, Moran, Jax, Fulmer and Maeda should be very good. The rotation at least decent. It would be a question of Buxton's health and at least one of Larnach/Kiriloff clicking for the offense.
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73, 74 or 75 wins?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So just spend money just to spend it? None of your proposed moves do anything to move the needle of success for this team. Like I said, they will likely make moves via trade yet, and there's no point on going and getting journeymen that used to play here before. There are better options.
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In a way, yes. It won't be put to any other good use. They've got one foot in the pool, so they may as well jump in, to the extent it's still possible since they dithered while the more attractive free agents went off the board. The last thing they need to do is trade Luis Arreaz for another #3 starter, or worse yet, prospects from their already depleted minor leagues.

How do you define success? This team will not win the World Series no matter what signings or trades they make. Can they win the division and win a play-off game or series? Yes, if they add some bullpen and offense. If it doesn't work, which is fully possible, then it's more pieces to trade.

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Miranda is 24 and hasn't even been given the chance to be a full time 3B yet. He deserves at least a full season there.
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He's in the majors for his bat. He can DH and play 1B. If he plays 3B some, fine. But he will never be a good 3B. Do we care about defense or don't we? Polanco at SS is no more questionable than Miranda at 3B.

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't have a problem with Farmer as the SS until either Lewis, Martin, or Lee are ready. If Martin or Lee start the season hot in the minors, bring them up.
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That's fine. I think Lewis will still be fine there. But in the meantime, Polanco playing 40 games there and splitting time with Farmer is the best solution for the offense.
GopherWeatherGuy said:
You're right Rogers isn't Pagan, he's worse than Pagan. It was far more than just a bad 2nd half last season.
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That's simply ridiculous. Through June 30th, Rogers had a 2.84 ERA and 22 saves. He had a bad second half and was moved to lower leverage spots because of it. That will likely happen again, perhaps in reverse. As long as they use him when he's hot and hide him more when he's not, I'm OK with it. It also means he won't cost a ton or require a long-term contract.

Through June 30th, Pagan had an ERA of 5.26, 9 saves and 4 blown saves with multiple other blown leads. He was better the 2nd half after they started making him a 5th/6th inning guy. But he sucks in any pressure situation and has his whole career save one season in Tampa. To say Rogers is worse overall is ridiculous.
 
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
73, 74 or 75 wins?
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Sure, if Buxton, Larnnach and Kiriloff all repeat their 2022, then that's what we're headed for regardless. But if not, this would give us enough bullpen and and offense to win the 85-90 required to win the Central.
 

howeda7 said:
Trade Kepler for Escobar (may need a 3rd team)

Trade Pagan for a bucket of balls
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I’d take Escobar back. Guessing at this point the Mets aren’t going to want a 4th outfielder and would rather have young prospects that don’t have to be on their 40man. But that’s a total guess.

If we revise “bucket of balls” to “box of dilly bars”, I’m all for that as well. I’ll even throw in enough Hormel hot dogs to fill out the Hormel row of fame along with Pagan for the box of dilly bars.
 

Who knows maybe the Mets and SF swing a “trade” in Jan for Escobar and others - deferred compensation.
 

howeda7 said:
In a way, yes. It won't be put to any other good use. They've got one foot in the pool, so they may as well jump in, to the extent it's still possible since they dithered while the more attractive free agents went off the board. The last thing they need to do is trade Luis Arreaz for another #3 starter, or worse yet, prospects from their already depleted minor leagues.

How do you define success? This team will not win the World Series no matter what signings or trades they make. Can they win the division and win a play-off game or series? Yes, if they add some bullpen and offense. If it doesn't work, which is fully possible, then it's more pieces to trade.


He's in the majors for his bat. He can DH and play 1B. If he plays 3B some, fine. But he will never be a good 3B. Do we care about defense or don't we? Polanco at SS is no more questionable than Miranda at 3B.


That's fine. I think Lewis will still be fine there. But in the meantime, Polanco playing 40 games there and splitting time with Farmer is the best solution for the offense.

That's simply ridiculous. Through June 30th, Rogers had a 2.84 ERA and 22 saves. He had a bad second half and was moved to lower leverage spots because of it. That will likely happen again, perhaps in reverse. As long as they use him when he's hot and hide him more when he's not, I'm OK with it. It also means he won't cost a ton or require a long-term contract.

Through June 30th, Pagan had an ERA of 5.26, 9 saves and 4 blown saves with multiple other blown leads. He was better the 2nd half after they started making him a 5th/6th inning guy. But he sucks in any pressure situation and has his whole career save one season in Tampa. To say Rogers is worse overall is ridiculous.
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Escobar and Rogers are not the difference between them winning the division or not. Rogers slide started at the end of May, and he also had 4 blown saves by June 30th. Overall, Pagan had better numbers at the end of the season.

The Twins won't bring either one of them back, and they shouldn't.
 







BAHAHAH!!!!

First time they missed it was because they offered as much as they possibly could and he chose more money. Fine it is what it is.

Second time they missed it was cause they had not done a physical since March. It’s not like a physical would not be required for the contract to be signed. Honestly this physical excuse is worst than not saying anything and letting it die after he signed with the Mets.

It’s ok twins you were never going to give him $325million or you would have upped the offer in June and not waited until he was a free agent. If you were going to pay the money he wanted you could have avoided free agency all together. Instead you offered $280million and then waited until December to offer him $285million still over $30million short of what he got.
 


From the Parkinglot said:
It’s ok twins you were never going to give him $325million or you would have upped the offer in June and not waited until he was a free agent. If you were going to pay the money he wanted you could have avoided free agency all together. Instead you offered $280million and then waited until December to offer him $285million still over $30million short of what he got.
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Has a Boras client ever not waited until Free Agency to sign? Maybe Strasburg.

I can comfortably say there was a 99.99% chance Correa was going to wait until at least December to sign anything (barring injury), regardless of what was being offered.

Moving to 3B is really puzzling, unless whatever was discovered in the physical may limit his effectiveness at SS.
 

Ope3 said:
Has a Boras client ever not waited until Free Agency to sign? Maybe Strasburg.

I can comfortably say there was a 99.99% chance Correa was going to wait until at least December to sign anything (barring injury), regardless of what was being offered.

Moving to 3B is really puzzling, unless whatever was discovered in the physical may limit his effectiveness at SS.
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Probably not, but at $325million you would have stayed in the conversation longer than at $285million. Plus Boras might have even called you back once the giants deal fell through.
 

From the Parkinglot said:

BAHAHAH!!!!

First time they missed it was because they offered as much as they possibly could and he chose more money. Fine it is what it is.

Second time they missed it was cause they had not done a physical since March. It’s not like a physical would not be required for the contract to be signed. Honestly this physical excuse is worst than not saying anything and letting it die after he signed with the Mets.

It’s ok twins you were never going to give him $325million or you would have upped the offer in June and not waited until he was a free agent. If you were going to pay the money he wanted you could have avoided free agency all together. Instead you offered $280million and then waited until December to offer him $285million still over $30million short of what he got.
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MLB Trade Rumors.....I site I respect for their content......predicted nine years and $288 million at the end of the year for Correa. If the Twins were in the $280-$285 range, that isn't an illegitimate offer. The market was much higher than expected once Turner and Bogaerts signed. I certainly don't blame the Twins for not being north of $300 million back in June. In fact, I'm not even sure this is the right delegation of resources regardless.

That doesn't excuse them for not spending the money that they were willing to spend on Correa.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
Probably not, but at $325million you would have stayed in the conversation longer than at $285million. Plus Boras might have even called you back once the giants deal fell through.
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From the Athletic article above, Boras did call the Twins back. They said:

- They were not going to up the $285M offer
- No further negotiating until the medical records would be reviewed.

Boras/Correa moved onto the Mets and 12 hours later, done. I wonder what the rush was. Take it before the Cohen changes his mind?
 

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