All Things 2022-2023 Minnesota Twins Off-Season Thread

GopherWeatherGuy

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I understand not wanting to go 12+ years on a Correa, that said not having a backup plan is inexcusable. We got a below average player in Gallo, a very very average player in Vasquez and 0 pitching. This team is going to end up like 70-92.

They have Farmer and 3 high end prospects who can play SS. How is that not a backup plan? Their expected pitching rotation going into this season is better than it has been in years. Vasquez is a huge upgrade over Sanchez/Jeffers.
 

howeda7

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They have Farmer and 3 high end prospects who can play SS. How is that not a backup plan? Their expected pitching rotation going into this season is better than it has been in years. Vasquez is a huge upgrade over Sanchez/Jeffers.
They had a back-up plan for SS. They didn't have a back-up plan on how to replace his offense or where else to spend the $. So we're going to roll with a payroll $40 million less than last year and a very weak line-up apparently.
 


leib0039

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They have Farmer and 3 high end prospects who can play SS. How is that not a backup plan? Their expected pitching rotation going into this season is better than it has been in years. Vasquez is a huge upgrade over Sanchez/Jeffers.
Saying that is like saying it's ok if the Vikings let Jefferson walk because we have KJ Osborn to take his spot.

And our rotation is weak. On a good team we have a bunch of 3-4-5 starters. Good luck again elite pitching. There is a reason Gray, Paddock, mahle maeda were available, they are extremely average
 



From the Parkinglot

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Didn’t need him we have Tyler Mahle who’s arm may or may not still be attached to his body. Plus we have Chris Paddock who won’t pitch competitively in 2023, but he’s under “team control” for 2024.

This front office just makes it so tough to root for them. Ever since they signed Josh Donaldson in 2020 after hitting the most homeruns in baseball history in 2019.

Merry Christmas
 

howeda7

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Didn’t need him we have Tyler Mahle who’s arm may or may not still be attached to his body. Plus we have Chris Paddock who won’t pitch competitively in 2023, but he’s under “team control” for 2024.

This front office just makes it so tough to root for them. Ever since they signed Josh Donaldson in 2020 after hitting the most homeruns in baseball history in 2019.

Merry Christmas
Why sign him for only $ when we can trade Luis Arreaz for a #3 starter intead? Strategery.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Saying that is like saying it's ok if the Vikings let Jefferson walk because we have KJ Osborn to take his spot.

And our rotation is weak. On a good team we have a bunch of 3-4-5 starters. Good luck again elite pitching. There is a reason Gray, Paddock, mahle maeda were available, they are extremely average

Jefferson was drafted and developed by the Vikings. That would be a better comparison for the Astros, who let Correa walk, and then won a World Series after replacing him with a top prospect.

The Twins top starters the last time they made the playoffs were: Berrios, Maeda, Dobnak, Rich Hill, and Pineda. Prior to that it was Berrios, Perez, Gibson, Odorizzi, and Pineda, and Gibson's ERA was pushing 5, and Perez was over 5. No one wanted most of those guys either, and none of them are top of the rotation starters.

I'd easily take potential starters of Ryan, Gray, Mahle, Maeda, Ober, with Winder, Varland, and Woods Richardson lurking - who may be better than any of them, over those last two rotations.

I have far more concerns about their lineup than their pitching rotation, but I want nothing to do with Correa on a contract for more than 7 years. These expensive, long term contracts rarely work out for the teams who sign them.
 

From the Parkinglot

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Why sign him for only $ when we can trade Luis Arreaz for a #3 starter intead? Strategery.
What makes that worse is at one point and time they had a top 5 farm system. Now all those players are either hurt in the majors, playing ok in the majors, or have been traded away. There is no savior coming from the minors to help this team. All these prospect pitchers were pretty bad in 2022.

These are trying times for the couple hundred thousand twins fans around the world.
 



BleedGopher

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Twins’ Royce Lewis talks injury rehab, positional future: ‘I’m a lot stronger’​


The emotional swings Royce Lewis regularly experiences are to be expected. He’s an elite athlete grounded for a second straight year of rehab after tearing the anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee for a second time in May.

As good as the Twins prospect feels and as well as his rehab goes, Lewis is forced to play the waiting game for at least the third time in his career.

The pandemic wiped out the 2020 season for Lewis, the first pick of the 2017 amateur draft. Lewis also missed all of the 2021 campaign with a torn ACL and tore his ACL again last season on May 29. He isn’t expected back in the majors until late June or July.

Based on how it’s transpired so far, Lewis would love to accelerate his rehab, which reached the six-month mark on Dec. 21. In the same breath, Lewis sounds anxious to go full speed before he steps back and notes that taking the proper amount of time could be the difference in the length of his career.

This time around, Lewis is much more confident in his understanding of the process, which includes mostly good days mixed with the occasional bad one. But even though Lewis sees the big picture, it doesn’t entirely eliminate his desire to immediately play and compete for a spot on the 2023 Twins roster.

“It feels like the process already has to be slowed down from what I want compared to what they want,” Lewis said by phone last week. “The athlete mentality is so different than the longevity/business mentality of it. I’m trying to understand that as best as I can.

“It just sucks because I want to play and be there with the team. But you know what? I get it and I think the more I think about the end of my career as well, I would definitely want to take it slower. What’s one month compared to the last five years of your career, if that’s what it takes to save that?”

Last week’s benchmark meant Lewis could begin to increase running and change-of-direction activities. Though Lewis sounded thrilled after spending a recent afternoon riding an exercise bike alongside his grandfather at a Southern California gym, he yearns for more.

Next on the list is picking up a bat.

Lewis has a call scheduled with his rehab team for early January and hopes to begin swinging by the middle of the month.


Win Twins!!
 

golfing18now

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Jefferson was drafted and developed by the Vikings. That would be a better comparison for the Astros, who let Correa walk, and then won a World Series after replacing him with a top prospect.

The Twins top starters the last time they made the playoffs were: Berrios, Maeda, Dobnak, Rich Hill, and Pineda. Prior to that it was Berrios, Perez, Gibson, Odorizzi, and Pineda, and Gibson's ERA was pushing 5, and Perez was over 5. No one wanted most of those guys either, and none of them are top of the rotation starters.

I'd easily take potential starters of Ryan, Gray, Mahle, Maeda, Ober, with Winder, Varland, and Woods Richardson lurking - who may be better than any of them, over those last two rotations.

I have far more concerns about their lineup than their pitching rotation, but I want nothing to do with Correa on a contract for more than 7 years. These expensive, long term contracts rarely work out for the teams who sign them.

I agree with this post. I think this is the best rotation the Twins have had in awhile, assuming they stay healthy. You have eight (nine or 10 if you include Sands and Paddock) starters that are at least serviceable. It's probably not a World Series winning rotation but it's probably above average and good enough to win the Central.

Although I'm not super excited about their offseason, I also don't think this roster is a train wreck. This team was running away with the Central in May last year before all the injuries and even before Correa took off. The core group that we have been reading about over the last handful of years has now arrived (Buxton/Lewis/Miranda/Kirilloff/Walner/Larnach/Arraez/Gordon). Is this group good enough to rival some of the core groups we have seen over the last 20 years of Twins baseball? I think it could be with the improved rotation if it all stays reasonably healthy. Many of the players getting the at-bats in August and September last year were not your first options (Cave/Palacios/Leon/Contreras/Celestino). Let's see what this core can do with a little better luck/health.
 

From the Parkinglot

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I agree with this post. I think this is the best rotation the Twins have had in awhile, assuming they stay healthy. You have eight (nine or 10 if you include Sands and Paddock) starters that are at least serviceable. It's probably not a World Series winning rotation but it's probably above average and good enough to win the Central.

Although I'm not super excited about their offseason, I also don't think this roster is a train wreck. This team was running away with the Central in May last year before all the injuries and even before Correa took off. The core group that we have been reading about over the last handful of years has now arrived (Buxton/Lewis/Miranda/Kirilloff/Walner/Larnach/Arraez/Gordon). Is this group good enough to rival some of the core groups we have seen over the last 20 years of Twins baseball? I think it could be with the improved rotation if it all stays reasonably healthy. Many of the players getting the at-bats in August and September last year were not your first options (Cave/Palacios/Leon/Contreras/Celestino). Let's see what this core can do with a little better luck/health.
I get all this but most of these “core” guys have a health history that tends to show they are hurt more than they are healthy. Call it back luck, bad timing, poor training, whatever the reason. You can’t have any faith that Buxton, Kiriloff, Lanrnach, Lewis, and most of the pitchers will be healthy more then they are hurt.

My bigger problem is you have roughly $30-40 million to spend to get to $150 million payroll. If they want it save that money this year and see what happens that’s fine. But then that money better be invested back into the 2024 payroll at at least get it to $175 million. These guys love 1 year contracts, so to have $175 payroll for 1 year should not be an issue as long as the contracts are correct.
 

golfing18now

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I get all this but most of these “core” guys have a health history that tends to show they are hurt more than they are healthy. Call it back luck, bad timing, poor training, whatever the reason. You can’t have any faith that Buxton, Kiriloff, Lanrnach, Lewis, and most of the pitchers will be healthy more then they are hurt.

My bigger problem is you have roughly $30-40 million to spend to get to $150 million payroll. If they want it save that money this year and see what happens that’s fine. But then that money better be invested back into the 2024 payroll at at least get it to $175 million. These guys love 1 year contracts, so to have $175 payroll for 1 year should not be an issue as long as the contracts are correct.

The injury history is certainly a concern. You probably know what you have in Buxton at this point. I can't imagine they feel all that great about Lewis but this is a position of strength in the organization that has two guys not far away in Martin and Lee. The other guys you mention are the wildcard for me. If Kirilloff, Larnach, Ober, Polanco, Paddock, Mahle, and others remain injured this year, then you probably have a big problem that $35.0 million won't solve. That would be too many holes to fill and the depth in the organization isn't good enough to finish dissimilar to last year.

On the money issue you raise......I actually think the Twins have acted differently in the last 24 months than their own reputation suggests.
  1. They went out and signed a big contract in Donaldson. Eventually they found out he was a cancer and moved him. But it was pretty un-Twins like at the time.
  2. They shipped money away in a trade as opposed to the opposite in the Taylor/Pagan/Paddock trade. Pretty un-Twins like.
  3. They sent out one of their best prospects to get Sonny Grey from the Reds. Typically they had been over protective of their prospects.
  4. They were hyper aggressive before the season and at the deadline last year to acquire Sanchez, Urshela, Lopez, and Mahle.
  5. They needed to keep the SS seat warm for a year for Lewis so they went out and signed the best possible stopgap in Correa as opposed to somebody like Andrelton Simmons.
I'm not trying to be an apologist for the Twins offseason this year. In fact, their moves of the last 24 months make this off-season very odd. But they also haven't been the Rays/A's/Royals/Reds/Marlins the last couple years. Their inactivity this year to me suggests one of two things. Either they put all their eggs in the Correa basket and really whiffed on any alternative or they have the same concerns as you and feel this core might not be good enough to justify large free agent contracts at the moment. I don't know.
 



forever a gopher

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I still can't get over Tommy Watkins keeping his job.
What is Watkins' WAR? Like -10? It's merely a sign of complacency and ineptitude that he was allowed to keep his job. At the end of the day, unless there are significant changes, this team is looking like a 70 win team at best. So really, what's the difference? If a sub-par season gets this organization cleaned out, that's maybe a fair price to pay.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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As the Correra unsigned saga - some info regarding the possible medical issue -


Doctor weighs in on Carlos Correa’s ankle as deal with Mets remains on hold​


It’s been more than a week since Carlos Correa and the Mets came to an overnight agreement on a 12-year, $315 million contract and six days since the club found something they didn’t like the shortstop’s medical examination. They Mets became the second team to cite something on Correa’s physical, with the San Francisco Giants being the first to raise concerns about his surgically-repaired right leg.

While playing in the minor leagues in June of 2014, Correa fractured his fibula and suffered what the Houston Astros called minor ligament damage high in his right ankle. A plate was inserted to reduce the fracture and stabilize the ankle, which allowed the ligaments to heal.

The biggest question is what exactly the Mets and Giants found in the physical that was so alarming. Dr. Laith Jazrawi, a sports orthopedic surgeon at NYU Langone who has not treated Correa, said the two teams likely saw post-traumatic arthritis in the ankle. This could possibly lead to problems with the ankle within the next decade, which is well within the range of the 12-year contract the Mets offered Correa and the 13-year deal the Giants offered him before it fell apart and he agreed to terms with the team in Queens.

“Post-traumatic arthritis — meaning even if you stabilize it and make it perfect, there’s still an injury that’s impacted on the ankle,” Dr. Jazrawi told the Daily News in a phone interview on Thursday. “And there may be finding suggestive of some other issues there that may necessitate surgery later on, that doesn’t necessarily have a great outcome.”


Correa could suffer from cartilage degeneration later on his career, which may require another surgery. This could be what gave the Mets and Giants some trepidation.

“Sometimes you can clean it out, right? But that’s an issue that they don’t want to have to deal with because it’s unpredictable,” Dr. Jazrawi said. “Once you have sort of arthritis set it in, it’s unpredictable how the athlete will respond to it, and it’s a degenerative process.”

[ Bill Madden: Steve Cohen’s Carlos Correa deal is just plain reckless for the Mets ]

Dr. Jazrawi, who serves as the team physician for NYU and LIU athletics and was named a top doctor his field by New York Magazine in 2013, said athletes who incur similar injuries and undergo similar procedures sometimes require additional procedures to clean out damaged cartilage or to repair holes in the cartilage.

The outcomes of those procedures differ from athlete to athlete. But if the Mets and Giants are already seeing signs of degeneration, then it would make sense that clubs would be inclined to reduce the number of years on the contract. This also explains why the Minnesota Twins medically cleared him to play last winter after he signed as a free agent — arthritis may not have appeared yet, or may not have been as significant.

Late last season with the Twins, he appeared injured after a player slid into his right leg and hit the plate, but he missed no time. Dr. Jazrawi said this is not a warning sign or any reason for concern.

“That’s not a big deal,” he said. “You can take the plate out if you want, if the plate is irritating you or anything like that. That’s not what the issue is. There are probably some findings on the X-ray that they’re concerned with, and the MRI, which showed, probably, some other issues with the cartilage.”

Correa has not missed any time with any right leg or ankle injuries since it was repaired. He did sprain his left ankle in 2015 and spent time on the injured list in 2018 and 2019 with lower back injuries, but the right leg has not been a factor for him throughout his eight-year major league career.

A year after he underwent surgery, he made his heralded MLB debut and was named the AL Rookie of the Year. The 28-year-old Puerto Rican is a two-time All-Star who helped the Astros win the 2017 World Series.
 

howeda7

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We got him. Take that all haters who think Derek Falvey is in over his head, sitting on his thumbs.

 

short ornery norwegian

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Pitchers and catchers begin reporting in 6 weeks. Spring Training games will be played starting Feb 24th.

One of my bucket list things to do is to go down to Florida for Spring training some year.
Now I just have to come up with the money.
 

#2Gopher

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Pitchers and catchers begin reporting in 6 weeks. Spring Training games will be played starting Feb 24th.

One of my bucket list things to do is to go down to Florida for Spring training some year.
Now I just have to come up with the money.
I wish I had done it back in the days when spring training wasn't a big deal. Calvin Giffith and others would sit in the stands and small talk with the fans. That would have been cool. Clearly not the same anymore. Much more progress now.
 



forever a gopher

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I hope Jim Pohlad doesn't get a backache from keeping that extra $30 million in his wallet.
I'm not a Pohlad apologist, but it depends on how they spend it. Dropping $10mil on the Gallo signing made no sense. At that point, just save your money. Or maybe here's a better idea, recognize you're going to be worse this year, and since you didn't spend the money on payroll, how about you roll back ticket prices by 15-20%. Or instead of slyly no longer including sales tax in the concessions prices, roll it back in. I think a $12 beer was expensive enough with sales tax already included.
 

short ornery norwegian

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I still think that there will be some trades before Spring Training.

keep seeing the same rumors that Kepler will be dealt, which makes sense. currently have left-handed hitting OF group of Kepler, Gallo, Larnach, Wallner, and Kirilloff. somebody from that group has to go.

now long-term, IF he's healthy, I see Kirilloff at 1B. But unless Arraez does get traded, Kirilloff looks like a mix of OF, DH and spot duty at 1B.

I would also like to see another relief pitcher added to the group.
 

howeda7

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I'm not a Pohlad apologist, but it depends on how they spend it. Dropping $10mil on the Gallo signing made no sense. At that point, just save your money. Or maybe here's a better idea, recognize you're going to be worse this year, and since you didn't spend the money on payroll, how about you roll back ticket prices by 15-20%. Or instead of slyly no longer including sales tax in the concessions prices, roll it back in. I think a $12 beer was expensive enough with sales tax already included.
I'm not really blaming Pohlad, this is on Falvey. But there isn't anything left to spend $30 million or even $20 million on. They can/better add a couple relievers but I doubt they'll be high-end ones.
 

GophersInIowa

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I have a weird feeling Correa will end up back with the Twins but with a small contract. Could see essentially the same thing he signed last year. The longer nothing happens, the worse it is for him.
 

howeda7

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I have a weird feeling Correa will end up back with the Twins but with a small contract. Could see essentially the same thing he signed last year. The longer nothing happens, the worse it is for him.
I wouldn't give him that. Short-term OK, but not one year. 2 years $70 million. Take it or leave it.
 

From the Parkinglot

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Right now there is nothing to spend the money on. And after they trade Kepler they will have around $40million to spend just to get back to 2022’s payroll.
 

howeda7

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Right now there is nothing to spend the money on. And after they trade Kepler they will have around $40million to spend just to get back to 2022’s payroll.
Maybe they'll trade for Chris Sale (Falvey loves an injured pitcher) and get the Red Sox to give us prospects for eating his contract. He's owed $27.5 million per year for 2023 and 2024.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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I have a weird feeling Correa will end up back with the Twins but with a small contract. Could see essentially the same thing he signed last year. The longer nothing happens, the worse it is for him.
FWIW -

The Twins beat reporter, Gleeman, said that he puts it at 1% that Correra ends up here - originally he thought it was 10%.

The Mets still want him, but not for that long as his injured leg will likely turn arthritic in the latter years of the deal- the article I posted earlier in this page (#615) details the concerns from an Orthopedist perspective.
Correra loves cohen and is best buddies with Lindor, so he wants to stay.
They are likely hashing out the years at this point, if this scenario is accurate
 

From the Parkinglot

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FWIW -

The Twins beat reporter, Gleeman, said that he puts it at 1% that Correra ends up here - originally he thought it was 10%.

The Mets still want him, but not for that long as his injured leg will likely turn arthritic in the latter years of the deal- the article I posted earlier in this page (#615) details the concerns from an Orthopedist perspective.
Correra loves cohen and is best buddies with Lindor, so he wants to stay.
They are likely hashing out the years at this point, if this scenario is accurate
In the end Carlos wants a big market and big money compared to a small market and big money. He was willing to play 3rd base and give up some money to go to the Mets once the Giants deal fell apart. I guess I can’t blame him. So it goes for the twins. Who can we trade for an often injured #5 starter?
 

Breakin' The Plane

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Jon Heyman reporting that Correa camp has engaged with talks with a team other than the Mets.
Falvine's appetite for damaged goods will not be denied.
 




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