All Things 2021 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

[short ornery norwegian]

My ideal scenario:
Vikes trade Cousins to the 49ers for some package of draft picks.
Using the extra picks, they move up in the draft and get the QB of the Future.
Then, they go after the best 2 OL they can draft or sign as free-agents.

When Zimmer complains, remind him that he'll be getting Pierce, Hunter, Barr and Kendricks back from injury and covid. That's better than any rookie draft choice you might land.

the only drawback is that - barring a big move by Wilf, you would still have Spielman making the draft picks with Zimmer in his ear screaming for more defensive help.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

If you feel that the QB puts you over the top as a Super Bowl contender, then you get the QB regardless of the draft capital.

The reason Tampa Bay is in the Super Bowl this season has far more to do with the HOF QB they signed than it does with who they drafted in the 1st round over the last several years. If Stafford wins the Rams a Super Bowl in the next year or two, no one will care about the picks they gave up to get him.

The more I think about it and the more I dig into it, the Lions (not surprisingly) got fleeced in this trade. I listened to an interesting discussion on the value of draft picks in relation to their time value. In general, a first rounder next year, all things being equal, is worth about 80-85% of a first round pick THIS year, and a first rounder 2 years from now is only worth about 70% of a first rounder this year. Jimmy Johnson allegedly simplified it to a first rounder next year is worth a SECOND rounder this year.

- The Rams draft picks in 2022 and 2023 are very very likely to be in the 20's
- Goff was the backup in this years playoff game to a guy who was an AAF starter, essentially
- Stafford is one very, VERY talented QB and he's arguably still in his prime
- The Rams got rid of that terrible Goff contract

Shit, the Panthers were apparently offering the #8 this year and the value of the 2 future first rounders of the Rams don't even equal the value of that #8 pick this year and it's not close.

I heard a couple crazy stats;

- Stafford has had a top 10 defense ONCE in his career in Detroit and they went 11-5.
- Stafford has had an RB have a 100-yd rushing game 11 times in TWELVE years

The Rams made a strong, bold move, you gotta give them some credit. They have the defense, they have some weapons on offense, and they have what I'm starting to realize more and more is one of the best coaches in the game.

As a Cardinals season ticket holder, I hate this move more and more and more.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

My ideal scenario:
Vikes trade Cousins to the 49ers for some package of draft picks.
Using the extra picks, they move up in the draft and get the QB of the Future.
Then, they go after the best 2 OL they can draft or sign as free-agents.

When Zimmer complains, remind him that he'll be getting Pierce, Hunter, Barr and Kendricks back from injury and covid. That's better than any rookie draft choice you might land.

the only drawback is that - barring a big move by Wilf, you would still have Spielman making the draft picks with Zimmer in his ear screaming for more defensive help.

Moving up in this draft only works if you love, Love, LOVE one of the QB's not named Trevor Lawrence. I'm just not sure I'm at that point right now? I LIKE the other 3 being talked about in the top 10 (Wilson, Fields, Lance) but I'm not sure I LOVE them that much.

Oh, and as far as needing more defensive help, that's pretty much EXACTLY what this team needs right now, yes, along with additional OL help, but they need help up front in a big way. Today's NFL is about getting a pass rush by only rushing 4 and the Vikings are a long ways away from that right now, even with Pierce and Hunter (hoping/praying they can resolve the Hunter situation).

This will be one heck of an offseason in the next few months. Even without the combine, the NFL will dominate the next couple of months like they always do

 

[MplsGopher]

My ideal scenario:
Vikes trade Cousins to the 49ers for some package of draft picks.
Using the extra picks, they move up in the draft and get the QB of the Future.
Then, they go after the best 2 OL they can draft or sign as free-agents.

When Zimmer complains, remind him that he'll be getting Pierce, Hunter, Barr and Kendricks back from injury and covid. That's better than any rookie draft choice you might land.

the only drawback is that - barring a big move by Wilf, you would still have Spielman making the draft picks with Zimmer in his ear screaming for more defensive help.

Even if we could somehow get Fields or whoever ends up the #3 QB in the draft, I think that's pretty dangerous rolling out straight away with a rookie, unless you're already near the bottom like the Bengals or Browns. Even the Chargers started out with Tyrod. And so on.

 

[howeda7]

Even if we could somehow get Fields or whoever ends up the #3 QB in the draft, I think that's pretty dangerous rolling out straight away with a rookie, unless you're already near the bottom like the Bengals or Browns. Even the Chargers started out with Tyrod. And so on.

They would not roll with him week 1. They would have to sign someone like Ryan Fitzpatrick or see if they can get Big Ben for a year, etc.

 

[howeda7]

I prefer: Trade Cousins to the 49ers for a 1st and 3rd.

Trade our 1st, the 49ers first, a 3rd rounder, Hunter and Gladney for Watson and JJ Watt.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I just don't see the Vikings moving off of Cousins at this point. I could be wrong, but I don't see it.

In Cousins, Zim sees a guy who is durable, answers the bell and stays healthy, generally doesn't turn the ball over, and led what was essentially a top-10 offense last year. As a defensive-minded HC, that's about all you can ask for in your starting QB and offense. Damn near a dream scenario.

For this to happen, I think two things need to take place (which I also don't think will happen); D. Watson needs to be moved to a team NOT named the 49ers, and for a KING's ransom, which might cause the 49ers to overpay the Vikings for Cousins. And quite honestly, I'm in that same school of thought also; I'm not moving off of Cousins right now, unless someone overpays and by a big margin. It's like on Zillow, that "Make Me Move" option; my house is with $800k, but if you offer me $1.1M, you can have it

The only reason I give this even a glimmer of hope, Shanahan knows at this point that Jimmy G is not the QB to lead his offense and take them where they want to go. Guy can't stay healthy and when he is, he's not effective throwing the ball from the pocket remotely downfield. For Shanahan, that's a big problem.

For that reason, it could happen, but I don't see it. And I still don't see Watson leaving Houston either

 

[stocker08]

YIKES!!!!! I can't endorse that!!

I heard an interesting take on a podcast recently; you can make the argument that Jones at Alabama was throwing to a better WR corps than just about any NFL team he will go to, and to guys that were almost always wide open.

Have not heard great things about Jones, and to top things off, he's an extremely subpar athlete by today's standard. Dude runs like just a couple hundredths under a 5-second 40. Damn, that's almost hard to do

Completely agree. I think Jones looks fine. But he was throwing to wide open receivers and was playing behind a line that gave him enough time to camp out. Definitely would not use a first round pick on him.

 

[LakevilleBro]

Cousins has had many offensive weapons at his disposal, has been paid 94 million over the last 3 years, and we have still missed the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Cousins has had many offensive weapons at his disposal, has been paid 94 million over the last 3 years, and we have still missed the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years.

I have a hard time laying it on Cousins that the defense was arguably by far the worst of Zim's tenure, and essentially a bottom-10 defense in the league. Ooofff Plenty of blame to go around though.

Chad Graff at The Athletic does a good job of breaking down the dilemma with Riley Reiff and the likelihood he returns. It's the 4th in a 5-part breakdown of some of the biggest questions facing the Vikings this offseason, a pretty good job.

Will Reiff Return To The Vikings in 2021?

It's going to be a really tough decision but I agree with Graff, it's probably more likely Reiff does not return.

 

[LakevilleBro]

I have a hard time laying it on Cousins that the defense was arguably by far the worst of Zim's tenure, and essentially a bottom-10 defense in the league. Ooofff Plenty of blame to go around though.

Chad Graff at The Athletic does a good job of breaking down the dilemma with Riley Reiff and the likelihood he returns. It's the 4th in a 5-part breakdown of some of the biggest questions facing the Vikings this offseason, a pretty good job.

Will Reiff Return To The Vikings in 2021?

It's going to be a really tough decision but I agree with Graff, it's probably more likely Reiff does not return.

The issue I have with Cousins is that we are not getting better with him as QB. The team has a lot of issues, but I do not believe that Cousins is a winner, and I would like to see us go in a different direction. Look at how different Philly looks, after they made the Wentz to Hurts change.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

The issue I have with Cousins is that we are not getting better with him as QB. The team has a lot of issues, but I do not believe that Cousins is a winner, and I would like to see us go in a different direction. Look at how different Philly looks, after they made the Wentz to Hurts change.

Hurts was 1-3.
Wentz was 3-8-1

They weren't better with Hurts.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Hurts was 1-3.
Wentz was 3-8-1

They weren't better with Hurts.

Yup. The Eagles used 13 different O-Line combinations in the first 14 games of the season. Their OL injuries were bad in 2019 (the whole offense actually, WR's especially) and even worse in 2020. With reasonable luck in regards to health I wouldn't be surprised to see the Eagles win the NFC East with Wentz running the show this year, and an OC not named Doug Pederson, who's allergic to running the ball.

Reviews of Hurts 2020 play overall shortly after the season were far from flattering, he's got a long ways to go to be a starting QB in the league consistently. Takes him way too long to get off that first read, bails the pocket instantly (even when facing just a 3-man rush) and the accuracy is concerning. I think he's got a solid future as a backup and possible change-of-pace kind of QB behind a strong starter.

 

[LakevilleBro]

Hurts was 1-3.
Wentz was 3-8-1

They weren't better with Hurts.

The Eagles look "different" with Hurts, than Wentz. In his first NFL start, Hurts beats New Orleans, and then had over 400 yards of offense vs Arizona, and vs Dallas. Not bad for his first 3 NFL starts.

 

[GFBfan]

The Eagles look "different" with Hurts, than Wentz. In his first NFL start, Hurts beats New Orleans, and then had over 400 yards of offense vs Arizona, and vs Dallas. Not bad for his first 3 NFL starts.

52% completion rate on the season with 6 TD’s and 4 ints doesn’t scream NFL starting QB.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Wow. Multiple sources saying a Carson Wentz trade out of Philly is imminent. I'm really, really surprised, if it does indeed happen. Especially when the return isn't expected to be very much from what I've seen (apparently they'd be lucky to even get one first rounder).

QB carousel is in full swing, buckle up

 

[MplsGopher]

Gotta move him before March 20. They'll save a tremendous amount of cap over the next four years for a QB that won't be starting. https://overthecap.com/player/carson-wentz/4715/

Will even save around $850k in cap for 2021 (switch it to trade), even though most of his money that year is already guaranteed. Hey, it's more than nothing.

 

[MplsGopher]

Come on San Franny! You know you want Cousins.

He eats up too much cap, for a guy who can't put us on his back to the Superbowl. Ready to start over with something new.

 

[howeda7]

The Bears are trading a 1st, 3rd and Nick Foles for Carson Wentz. Cousins should be worth at least that much as his contract is far less awful and he's better than Wentz.

 

[GophersInIowa]

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

The Bears are trading a 1st, 3rd and Nick Foles for Carson Wentz. Cousins should be worth at least that much as his contract is far less awful and he's better than Wentz.

Ummmmmm.... What?

Wentz is 4 years younger and was on his way to a league MVP the year his team won the Super Bowl. Cousins is better than Wentz? His contract is far from disastrous by today's standards, it's got an average annual value of about $32M and the Eagles have eaten a huge majority of the guaranteed money already.

Wentz to the Bears would not be good news for Vikings fans, more than likely. The only good thing is the Bears had just about as bad of an OL last year as the Eagles, but will at least have a coach who may actually try to run the ball and not just throw it 75% of the game.

I'd still be surprised if the Vikings trade Cousins, but I guess it could happen. They need to get a starter in return though because there's ZERO chance Zim rolls into 2021 with a 2021 drafted QB.

 

[Wally]

Offensive line..
Protect Kirk and he is more than good enough.

 

[MplsGopher]

^^ None of Ogee's points are invalid. Even if I don't like em.

Will say: what about 2017? Granted, Bradford was the starter. Only went 8-8 in 2016 and no playoffs, though. But he did play very well in 2017 week 1. His knee crapped out, and we know the rest. Picked up Case that year for 1yr/$2M. Shoulda coulda went to the Super Bowl, at home no less.

Not saying we should, or that Zim and Spiel will, try to roll into 2021 with only a "Case like" pickup and a first round rookie.

But maybe they should ........

 

[MplsGopher]

Offensive line..
Protect Kirk and he is more than good enough.

This is probably more likely.

Just that Kirk eats up so much money. They need the OL, but they also need defense.

 

[forever a gopher]

I know nothing about Klint Kubiak. But what are the chances he would be getting an OC job anywhere but here, right after his father retired? Between Zim's kid and Kubiak's kid, if I was the Wilfs, I'd sure be critical that we're not hiring the most qualified, but rather the ones with the correct last names.

 

[Wally]

This is probably more likely.

Just that Kirk eats up so much money. They need the OL, but they also need defense.

Kirk is the 7th highest paid qb, maybe a little high but not prohibitive of fielding a competitive team.

The Superbowl showed that even the best are screwed without a decent line to protect.

I think D will be fine if they are healthy next year.

 

[MplsGopher]

I know nothing about Klint Kubiak. But what are the chances he would be getting an OC job anywhere but here, right after his father retired? Between Zim's kid and Kubiak's kid, if I was the Wilfs, I'd sure be critical that we're not hiring the most qualified, but rather the ones with the correct last names.

I don't think they're ready to fire Zim and Spiel for 2021, is frankly what it comes down to. And if they're still throwing in with those two, they want to let them call the shots on coordinators and decisions like keeping the schemes and playcalling style the same as much as possible.

If 2021 goes badly, I think you just clean house, in which both Zim and Kub's kids will be out the door as well.

 

[Wally]

I know nothing about Klint Kubiak. But what are the chances he would be getting an OC job anywhere but here, right after his father retired? Between Zim's kid and Kubiak's kid, if I was the Wilfs, I'd sure be critical that we're not hiring the most qualified, but rather the ones with the correct last names.

Nepotism is great, just ask the Chiefs.

 

[Wally]

Kirk Ciarrocca is free....

 

[MplsGopher]

Kirk is the 7th highest paid qb, maybe a little high but not prohibitive of fielding a competitive team.

The Superbowl showed that even the best are screwed without a decent line to protect.

I think D will be fine if they are healthy next year.

Right but we're not building a team with a clean slate. We have contracts on other guys.

It's possible we were another solid OL rookie away from a playoff season. But we also need to replace Rieff and I think the LG too.

Harris, Harrison, Barr, Kenricks, Pierce, Hunter, Wilson if we keep him ... these guys aren't on rookie contracts and they've got to be paid. Adds up.