All Things 2021 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread


Ogee Ogilthorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
15,635
Reaction score
7,913
Points
113
At first glance, it would appear to be a brutal schedule. Ouch. Every home opponent (except Detroit) was in contention for the playoffs on Week 17 and the road schedule doesn't look very manageable either.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
15,635
Reaction score
7,913
Points
113
Chad Graff at The Athletic, hitting it early talking about the Vikings pending offseason. Highlighting the article, some tough decisions on respected veterans like Anthony Harris, Kyle Rudolph, Reily Reiff and Anthony Barr;

The Athletic: Vikings Offseason Decisions
 

coolhandgopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
4,837
Reaction score
1,344
Points
113
Here are the quarterbacks the Vikings will face next season (presuming good health):
Goff, Prescott, Roethlisberger, Mayfield, Wilson, Rodgers, Stafford, Murray, Jackson, Bridgewater, Burrow, Jimmy G, and Trubisky/Foles.

The defense better improve quickly over the off-season-that’s a murderer’s row of QB’s they’ll be facing.
 

BleedGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
57,283
Reaction score
9,646
Points
113
ESPN: What's next for non-playoff teams

Minnesota Vikings (7-9, 3rd NFC North)
What went wrong: The Vikings couldn't predict Michael Pierce opting out or Danielle Hunter, Anthony Barr and Mike Hughes sustaining season-ending injuries. Minnesota learned how challenging it would be to plug inexperienced players into starter's roles and expect the same results on defense. The Vikings went all-in with several moves that suggested they were trying to win in 2020 -- extending Kirk Cousins and Dalvin Cook, drafting Justin Jefferson -- but tried to execute a rebuild with a defense that lost nine players from 2019. And in 2020, they were no longer able to pull off game-altering stops. While the Vikings' offensive line finished tied for 16th in pass block win rate thanks to the play of the tackles, the interior remains a major problem. And for how well the offense performed, ranking sixth in yards per game, fifth in rushing and 13th in scoring, the Vikings often played from behind and relied more on their rushing attack than their wide receivers when they needed an offensive surge.

Biggest offseason question: With needs on the offensive and defensive lines, how will the Vikings prioritize their decisions in free agency and the draft? The offense has leapfrogged the defense as the strength of the team, but if Minnesota doesn't upgrade the offensive line and find a better balance with the run and pass game, it will struggle to improve. Could the Vikings consider drafting a quarterback if they don't extend Cousins after his deal ends after 2022? Defensively, Minnesota needs its injured and opt-out players to return and continue to add in the secondary and up front.


Skol Vikes!!
 


BleedGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
57,283
Reaction score
9,646
Points
113
per Shama:

What’s the future for Vikings general manager Rick Spielman and head coach Mike Zimmer?

A source outside the organization told Sports Headliners that the franchise ownership will meet with both Spielman and Zimmer tomorrow (Tuesday). The source does not know what direction that meeting will take, including the possibility things remain status quo.

Another source close to the organization said the Wilf ownership is frustrated with the on-field results versus financial investment. The Vikings haven’t qualified for the NFL playoffs in two of the last three years—yet Minnesota has one of the league’s higher payrolls. Ownership has also invested extensively in stadium and practice facilities.

The second source said the only thing owners Zygi Wilf and Mark Wilf are “concerned about is winning.” Although Spielman and Zimmer have worked for them since 2005 and 2014 respectively, the source said emotion including loyalty to the GM and head coach won’t drive a decision.


Skol Vikes!!
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
32,015
Reaction score
8,376
Points
113
Vikings will be playing Seattle every year for the rest of time. At least it's home.

NFC West and AFC North, will be two tough divisions. + Dallas and Carolina again.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
32,015
Reaction score
8,376
Points
113
You would've thought the Lions game was the perfect opportunity to start Cleveland at LT, if that's the planned direction. Maybe this signals they want to keep Bradbury - Cleveland - O'Neill as is going forward, and find a LT and LG through the draft and/or FA ?
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
15,813
Reaction score
8,477
Points
113
That is what makes this season such a mess.

Didn't make the playoffs, but won enough games to only get a mid-round draft pick. and they traded away the 2nd-round draft pick for a DE who played what, 5 games?

Now, they have a ton of holes to fill in an off-season that will likely see a reduction in the salary cap.

I know some fans would love to see the Vikes get a QB in the 1st round - but if you can't get one of the top 3 or 4 QB's I would rather seem them go interior OL - Guards and/or a Center. How many times did you see the middle of the line just collapse and leave the QB with no place to step up into the pocket?

But - I will bet you even money that Zimmer will be screaming for more help on defense. Watch them pick another CB in the 1st round.
 






forever a gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,578
Reaction score
2,059
Points
113
I'm expecting Zim to push Spielman to draft the best available DE at pick 14. Pass rush was abysmal with no Hunter, and Zim most often gets what he wants. Do they have the money to pay Hunter what he wants? If he doesn't play/demands a trade, it almost guarantees they go DE at 14.

In an ideal world, a legitimate QB falls to them at 14. Or they find another GM like Spielman that will trade down for late round picks and move up a bit. However, with Spielman and Zim effectively being here on a year-by-year basis, I don't see Spielman "wasting" the pick on a future piece past 2021. I have to imagine missing the playoffs this year means they have to next year or they're gone. Spielman will mortgage whatever he needs to do to win now (see Ngokue trade and how that turned out). If they don't get a QB, I would hope there is a stud OT available. Draft OT and don't resign Reiff. Use that money saved to get a good value veteran OG/DE/Nickel corner.

They currently has the following picks- 1, 3, 3 (Ravens), 4, 4 (Bears), 4 (Bills), 5, 5 (Ravens), 5 (Steelers), 6, 7.
 



MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
32,015
Reaction score
8,376
Points
113
I'm expecting Zim to push Spielman to draft the best available DE at pick 14. Pass rush was abysmal with no Hunter, and Zim most often gets what he wants. Do they have the money to pay Hunter what he wants? If he doesn't play/demands a trade, it almost guarantees they go DE at 14.

In an ideal world, a legitimate QB falls to them at 14. Or they find another GM like Spielman that will trade down for late round picks and move up a bit. However, with Spielman and Zim effectively being here on a year-by-year basis, I don't see Spielman "wasting" the pick on a future piece past 2021. I have to imagine missing the playoffs this year means they have to next year or they're gone. Spielman will mortgage whatever he needs to do to win now (see Ngokue trade and how that turned out). If they don't get a QB, I would hope there is a stud OT available. Draft OT and don't resign Reiff. Use that money saved to get a good value veteran OG/DE/Nickel corner.

They currently has the following picks- 1, 3, 3 (Ravens), 4, 4 (Bears), 4 (Bills), 5, 5 (Ravens), 5 (Steelers), 6, 7.
Do you trust them to draft a starting NFL level LT? In the first round is one thing, but I think they think we have too many other concerns to use it there.

We've used two first round picks to draft two Remington award winning centers (Elflein Ohio St 2017, Bradbury NC St 2019). Elf was a bust, Bradbury is starting and assume he will next year too, but to me has still been inconsistent.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
71,053
Reaction score
26,573
Points
113
Retiring at age 59? Health problems? Or is he trying to put over his son as the new OC?
Health. He had strokes as Head Coach in Houston. Then more spells in Denver and retired as Broncos Head Coach after two seasons. Came back after a year off. He was originally an "advisor" to reduce the stress/workload until Stefanski left. I could see doing that again with Klint as the OC.

Another possibility though. John Elway just "kicked himself upstairs" and will no longer be the Broncos GM, just the President. They will hire a new GM. It wouldn't shock me if Kubiak was considered. He assisted Elway during his "retirement" year.
 

forever a gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,578
Reaction score
2,059
Points
113
Do you trust them to draft a starting NFL level LT? In the first round is one thing, but I think they think we have too many other concerns to use it there.

We've used two first round picks to draft two Remington award winning centers (Elflein Ohio St 2017, Bradbury NC St 2019). Elf was a bust, Bradbury is starting and assume he will next year too, but to me has still been inconsistent.
No, I don’t have trust, but you have to pick them to see if they’ll pan out. As the saying goes, even a blind squirrel can find a nut on occasion. Treadwell had to be one of the biggest busts of the Spielman era. But then the next high WR he picked turned out to be Jefferson, who looks like he could be elite. The OL has been a disappointment his entire era. You at least have to throw different options out there to try and fix it.

There are plenty of college award winners that don’t pan out. How many Heisman winners and/or finalists don’t do squat in the NFL?
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
32,015
Reaction score
8,376
Points
113
No, I don’t have trust, but you have to pick them to see if they’ll pan out. As the saying goes, even a blind squirrel can find a nut on occasion. Treadwell had to be one of the biggest busts of the Spielman era. But then the next high WR he picked turned out to be Jefferson, who looks like he could be elite. The OL has been a disappointment his entire era. You at least have to throw different options out there to try and fix it.

There are plenty of college award winners that don’t pan out. How many Heisman winners and/or finalists don’t do squat in the NFL?
Of course, you're correct.

But if it mostly just boils down to luck, why does it feel like we get unlucky too often? :(
 

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
13,100
Reaction score
9,465
Points
113
Here are the quarterbacks the Vikings will face next season (presuming good health):
Goff, Prescott, Roethlisberger, Mayfield, Wilson, Rodgers, Stafford, Murray, Jackson, Bridgewater, Burrow, Jimmy G, and Trubisky/Foles.

The defense better improve quickly over the off-season-that’s a murderer’s row of QB’s they’ll be facing.

I'm not sure I would consider that a murderers row of QBs. We play Rodgers twice every year, and seemingly Wilson every year too. Besides those two, Jackson and maybe Murray are the only other QBs on that list better than Cousins. Roethlisberger is declining, and Bridgewater, Jimmy G, Trubisky/Foles may not even be starters next season. Stafford could also end up on a new team.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
15,635
Reaction score
7,913
Points
113
I'm not sure I would consider that a murderers row of QBs. We play Rodgers twice every year, and seemingly Wilson every year too. Besides those two, Jackson and maybe Murray are the only other QBs on that list better than Cousins. Roethlisberger is declining, and Bridgewater, Jimmy G, Trubisky/Foles may not even be starters next season. Stafford could also end up on a new team.
Stafford could very well end up on a new team if anybody offers Detroit anything decent. The problem for Detroit is, I really think there will be a ton of movement in front of them positioning to draft QBs. There may very well not be a top-4 QB there for Detroit when they draft at #7. Sounds crazy, but virtually every team drafting in the top 10 (currently) you can't rule out them drafting a QB other than Cincinnati.

Good for teams like the Vikings who were VERY likely not going to draft a QB, it will slide a lot of good players at the top of the draft down to them potentially.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
32,015
Reaction score
8,376
Points
113
How crazy would it be if we did a straight up trade of Cousins for Stafford. I have no idea if that would save us money or how much.

Or what could possibly be the benefit to Detroit, other than getting a Michigan State guy to come "home".
 


forever a gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,578
Reaction score
2,059
Points
113
Stafford could very well end up on a new team if anybody offers Detroit anything decent. The problem for Detroit is, I really think there will be a ton of movement in front of them positioning to draft QBs. There may very well not be a top-4 QB there for Detroit when they draft at #7. Sounds crazy, but virtually every team drafting in the top 10 (currently) you can't rule out them drafting a QB other than Cincinnati.

Good for teams like the Vikings who were VERY likely not going to draft a QB, it will slide a lot of good players at the top of the draft down to them potentially.
The biggest wild card is always trades. Just looking at the Vikes and earlier, it would seem the following teams are likely to need a QB:
1- Jax (lock to draft QB)
2- NYJ (lock to draft QB, or trade to QB hungry team if they want to give Darnold another year)

3- Dolphins (no)
4- Falcons (no- if they cut Ryan prior to 2021, they would have a $50MM dead cap hit, so they would need to trade him)
5- Bengals (no)
6- Eagles (no)
7- Lions (I would say unlikely, but wouldn't be shocked considering there will be a new GM)
8- Panthers (would seem likely, depending on who's available)

9- Broncos (unlikely, seems they like Lock, and would Elway get run out of town if he drafts ANOTHER QB bust?)
10- Cowboys (unlikely, have to imagine they'll end up resigning Dak, but JJ is unpredictable)
11- NYG (unlikely, think they'll give Jones another year)
12- SF (unlikely, they'd have to find a trade partner for Garropollo, as they can't afford to have him on their roster and not start him)
13- Chargers (no)

If Detroit's new GM wants a fresh QB, they should have the no.3 pick at QB, pending trades. But who is the #3 QB behind Lawrence and Fields? Also, cutting Stafford would carry a $19MM dead cap hit prior to 2021. They could draft a QB and cut Stafford after 2021 for minimal impact.

edited: looking at Stafford's contract looks like he'll be easy to trade.
 
Last edited:

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
71,053
Reaction score
26,573
Points
113
I predict Stafford will either be a Patriot or a Bronco next year.
 

forever a gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,578
Reaction score
2,059
Points
113
How crazy would it be if we did a straight up trade of Cousins for Stafford. I have no idea if that would save us money or how much.

Or what could possibly be the benefit to Detroit, other than getting a Michigan State guy to come "home".
Their contracts are (relatively) similar. Both could be cut after 2021 with minimal impact, but hard to cut prior to 2021. Stafford's contract was a bit front-loaded, so his yearly salary is actually pretty cheap. Thus, would be pretty easy to trade and could get a decent return.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/matthew-stafford-6078/

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
15,813
Reaction score
8,477
Points
113
most draft sites have the QB's ranked something like this
1. Lawrence - Clemson
2. Fields - OSU
3. Wilson - BYU
4. Trey Lance -NDSU
5. Jones - Bama

So, depending on how things go, the Vikes could have a shot at one of the top 5 QB's at 14. Personally, I would love it if Lance fell to the Vikes. Let him back up Kirk until the cap hit comes down.

If there isn't a QB they like at that spot, I would go with the best G or C available.

But - my gut tells me that Zimmer will want to draft defense. and he usually gets his way.

My crazy prediction - Spielman trades down in the 1st round to accumulate more late-round draft picks.......
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
15,635
Reaction score
7,913
Points
113
The biggest wild card is always trades. Just looking at the Vikes and earlier, it would seem the following teams are likely to need a QB:
1- Jax (lock to draft QB)
2- NYJ (lock to draft QB, or trade to QB hungry team if they want to give Darnold another year)

3- Dolphins (no)
4- Falcons (no- if they cut Ryan prior to 2021, they would have a $50MM dead cap hit, so they would need to trade him)
5- Bengals (no)
6- Eagles (no)
7- Lions (I would say unlikely, but wouldn't be shocked considering there will be a new GM)
8- Panthers (would seem likely, depending on who's available)

9- Broncos (unlikely, seems they like Lock, and would Elway get run out of town if he drafts ANOTHER QB bust?)
10- Cowboys (unlikely, have to imagine they'll end up resigning Dak, but JJ is unpredictable)
11- NYG (unlikely, think they'll give Jones another year)
12- SF (unlikely, they'd have to find a trade partner for Garropollo, as they can't afford to have him on their roster and not start him)
13- Chargers (no)

If Detroit's new GM wants a fresh QB, they should have the no.3 pick at QB, pending trades. But who is the #3 QB behind Lawrence and Fields? Also, cutting Stafford would carry a $19MM dead cap hit prior to 2021. They could draft a QB and cut Stafford after 2021 for minimal impact.

edited: looking at Stafford's contract looks like he'll be easy to trade.
I don't totally disagree, but can you really say the Dolphins are 100% certain on Tua? And Atlanta, provided you see the prospect you like as needing a little bit of time, they could certainly be looking at Ryan's replacement. The Eagles, if they were able to find a trade partner for Wentz, could easily be looking for another QB to pair with Hurts (they don't have a 1st rounder invested in Hurts). I'm just reiterating what I heard on one or two podcasts and I don't totally disagree. Also not sure the Broncos are sold on Lock.

Stafford is an interesting prospect. I look at him and I can easily see Carson Palmer. Stafford, if moved this year, would be a year younger (Palmer 34, Stafford 33) than when Palmer got to the desert with the Cardinals and instantly made them relevant and powerful, going 38-21-1 as a starter for Arizona, including an NFC Champ game appearance. He played for the Cardinals for 5 years before retiring.

I would absolutely give up some decent capital for a QB that could make my team really relevant for 5-7 years? Hell yes. For a team that doesn't have very many holes, other than a top-10 QB, I would without question consider Stafford
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
71,053
Reaction score
26,573
Points
113
most draft sites have the QB's ranked something like this
1. Lawrence - Clemson
2. Fields - OSU
3. Wilson - BYU
4. Trey Lance -NDSU
5. Jones - Bama

So, depending on how things go, the Vikes could have a shot at one of the top 5 QB's at 14. Personally, I would love it if Lance fell to the Vikes. Let him back up Kirk until the cap hit comes down.

If there isn't a QB they like at that spot, I would go with the best G or C available.

But - my gut tells me that Zimmer will want to draft defense. and he usually gets his way.

My crazy prediction - Spielman trades down in the 1st round to accumulate more late-round draft picks.......
I agree, except I want Trask from Florida over Lance.
 

forever a gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,578
Reaction score
2,059
Points
113
I don't totally disagree, but can you really say the Dolphins are 100% certain on Tua? And Atlanta, provided you see the prospect you like as needing a little bit of time, they could certainly be looking at Ryan's replacement. The Eagles, if they were able to find a trade partner for Wentz, could easily be looking for another QB to pair with Hurts (they don't have a 1st rounder invested in Hurts). I'm just reiterating what I heard on one or two podcasts and I don't totally disagree. Also not sure the Broncos are sold on Lock.

Stafford is an interesting prospect. I look at him and I can easily see Carson Palmer. Stafford, if moved this year, would be a year younger (Palmer 34, Stafford 33) than when Palmer got to the desert with the Cardinals and instantly made them relevant and powerful, going 38-21-1 as a starter for Arizona, including an NFC Champ game appearance. He played for the Cardinals for 5 years before retiring.

I would absolutely give up some decent capital for a QB that could make my team really relevant for 5-7 years? Hell yes. For a team that doesn't have very many holes, other than a top-10 QB, I would without question consider Stafford
Valid points. But with the steep incline in QB compensation, the contracts of these players are going to dictate a lot more in decisions than they probably did in the past. Ryan’s contract for example is such that they essentially can’t cut him, so they’d have to be pretty confident they could find a trade partner willing to take on that contract. Just like Cousins- is any team willing to take on that contract, even if they don’t need to give anything up? I’m not sold on Tua, but has any team spent top 5 picks on QBs in consecutive drafts? Much more likely is they trade down for somebody that wants to reach for Wilson.

After watching Stafford for years, I am still unclear if he could be successful elsewhere. I’m not sure he has “it”. He has the tools, but is inconsistent and doesn’t seem to excel in big games (not that the Lions play many of those).
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
32,015
Reaction score
8,376
Points
113
Their contracts are (relatively) similar. Both could be cut after 2021 with minimal impact, but hard to cut prior to 2021. Stafford's contract was a bit front-loaded, so his yearly salary is actually pretty cheap. Thus, would be pretty easy to trade and could get a decent return.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/matthew-stafford-6078/

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/
Our only "out" with Cousins is a pre-June 1st, 2021 trade. That's the only option of the four (cut/trade, pre/post June 1st) that saves cap money for 2021. Just click on the red "X" on the right side of the spotrac table.

Stafford on the other hand, they save cap money for 2021 with any of the four options: $14M for cut or trade before June 1st, $10M for cut or trade after June 1st.

I guess it would have to be something like: we trade Cousins for Stafford before June 1st with both agreeing to reworked deals? Like if Stafford was willing to forgo his massive roster bonuses, then in 2021 we'd "only" owe him $10M for the year. I think ...


But if they're both willing to do that, I guess why not just agree to those reworked contracts staying with the current teams. Not sure what benefit switching would do, other than the idea of "trying something different to try something different, because staying the same probably won't result in anything different".
 





Top Bottom