All Things 2021 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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short ornery norwegian said:
Ogee - with all due respect, Gladney is done. If the Vikes keep him, the me too and cancel culture crowd will destroy the Vikes for supporting a guy who beats up women. The Vikes - and their corporate sponsors - want no part of that kind of publicity.

Assuming the charges are accurate, under league rules, Gladney is facing at the minimum a 6-game suspension. based on that alone, I think he's gone, because Zimmer is in "win-now" mode and he can't afford to wait 6 weeks to get a guy back from suspension.
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He might very well be in rough shape. It's hard to say. In the NFL, there are players that have done a lot worse and managed to recover just fine. Hearing more details, it sure isn't good, that's for sure. I don't know what anyone's definition of "done" is; it'll be interesting to see what the Vikings say in the coming weeks in terms of support.

I guess the upside for some people is it gives folks a chance to not only piss on Spielman/Zim for drafting strategies (because nobody misses on picks at the end of the 1st round) but also to have another 5-10 years of pining away about Winfield and missed opportunities. If you aren't aware of just how large the medicals weigh in the war room on draft day, there's no helping you. I love Winfield as much as anyone, he'll always have some of the greatest moments in recent Gopher history but he's just one of 60-80+ players that got drafted after the 1st round that could turn out to be better than Gladney. Winfield missed major parts of two seasons with injury in college; good luck getting drafted in the 1st round with that history while being a relatively under-sized safety.

The needs at the time weren't close to warranting drafting Winfield either. A quick Google search I found ranking NFL safeties at the start of last season had Anthony Harris #6 and Harrison Smith #7, and the Vikings were sitting there with just having a number of departing CB's off the roster. Jeremy Chin, the rookie Safety for the Panthers got drafted after Winfield and finished a lot higher in Def ROY voting. Some draft picks hit, some miss; you move on. I wish they wouldn't have drafted Christian Ponder in the first round, but I've gotten over it.
 

Done to me means cut by the Vikings. As in, they're done with him. If anyone else wants to deal with it, that's on them.

I mean, unless someone pays the woman off under the table to suddenly decide she wants to drop the charges. But at this point it might be too late, and the district attorney could decide to pursue the charges anyway?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Ogee - with all due respect, Gladney is done. If the Vikes keep him, the me too and cancel culture crowd will destroy the Vikes for supporting a guy who beats up women. The Vikes - and their corporate sponsors - want no part of that kind of publicity.

Assuming the charges are accurate, under league rules, Gladney is facing at the minimum a 6-game suspension. based on that alone, I think he's gone, because Zimmer is in "win-now" mode and he can't afford to wait 6 weeks to get a guy back from suspension.
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Minneapolis ain't Dallas.
 

The NFL (and all pro sports) are kinda funny when it comes to this type of thing. If you still have potential, the player will almost always find a new home. So team A takes heat for having a POS on their team, so they cut him. Then team B plays the "rehabilitation" card and signs him, and while they may take some heat, it's not nearly as much as if team A had kept him around. Don't know how those situations are really all that different, but for whatever reason, a team signing a POS takes way less heat than if they just keep a POS on their roster. It also is completely dependent on value. The Chiefs cut Hunt, and kept Hill. Hill was harder to replace than Hunt, so they kept him.

I don't know the particulars of the charges. But we'll see how much "win now mode" Zim and Spielman are truly in if he stays on the team.
 



howeda7 said:
Not sure what that means. But if the details if the police report are true, he's done. It's Ray Rice level bad and he's a marginal player. He might re-surface in a year or two.
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I haven't seen the police report. Rice's domestic assault was made much worse by the video (it is obvious heinous in and of itself. I meant to reply to Ogee that Glandy is done in MN and instead posted it to SON's post.

My comment (based on being born and spending my first 32 years in MN) was a reference to how the Cowboys handled the Greg Hardy signing, in case you need a refresher, see the link/article below. My supposition is that it wouldn't by possible to employee a Viking with that type of legal issue, while in Dallas maybe not a deal breaker (Jerry Jones).

abcnews.go.com

Dallas Cowboys Defend Deal With Greg Hardy After Domestic Abuse Allegations

The Dallas Cowboys are getting flak for signing a one-year deal with Greg Hardy, who was convicted of domestic violence but later had the conviction overturned.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

Dallas Cowboys Defend Deal With Greg Hardy After Domestic Abuse Allegations​

The Dallas Cowboys are on the defense today, as outrage brews over the team's decision to sign defensive lineman Greg Hardy, who faces a league suspension over domestic-violence allegations.

In July 2014, Hardy was convicted on domestic violence charges after then-girlfriend Nicole Holder said he'd thrown her in the bathroom, tossed her on a couch covered in semiautomatic weapons and then threatened to kill her.


In one recorded 911 call, a caller can be heard saying: "Some girl is getting her a-- beat upstairs."

Two NFL Players Ineligible to Play Over Abuse Allegations
Greg Hardy: Domestic Violence Charges Dropped
In September, the then-Carolina Panthers defensive end agreed to be placed on the commissioner's exempt list, which suspended him from playing, as he and his lawyers appealed the court decision.

The charges against Hardy were dropped in February when Holder failed to show up for the hearing. According to ESPN, Holder and Hardy reportedly reached a civil settlement.

Hardy became a free agent in March but no team signed him. ABC News' attempts to reach Hardy were not successful.


And Hardy still may not be allowed on the field when the season starts. On Wednesday, the NFL sought evidence from Hardy's trial. An NFL spokesman told the AP that Hardy was being investigated for further discipline from the league.

The Cowboys signed the All-Pro defensive end Wednesday to a one-year deal worth up to more than $13 million Wednesday, after owner Jerry Jones said the team had spent weeks investigating him.

"Our organization understands the very serious nature of domestic violence in our society and in our league," Jones said. "We know that Greg has a firm understanding of those issues as well."

But critics aren't happy he was signed.

"Is there no line you [Cowboys] won't cross? Is there no crime you won't accept," said Dale Hansen, an outspoken sports anchor at ABC News affiliate WFAA-TV. "Now you can beat a woman and play with a star on your helmet."

As the Cowboys announced the deal, thousands gathered in Dallas for a Crimes Against Women conference.

"I'm afraid this is taking a huge step backwards," said Jan Langbein of the Genesis Women's Shelter. "If it isn't good enough for the Ravens, or Carolina, I can't imagine it's good enough for Dallas."
 


Shortly after losing linebacker Eric Wilson, the Minnesota Vikings have seen another defensive player move on in free agency.

Numerous sources are reporting that defensive tackle Jaleel Johnson has signed a one-year deal with the Houston Texans.

Johnson was a fourth-round pick of the Vikings out of Iowa in the 2017 NFL Draft. He played in just five games his rookie season, but appeared in all sixteen games for the Vikings in each of the past three seasons. He was thrust into a starting role at defensive tackle this past season after Michael Pierce opted out for COVID-related reasons and picked up 38 total tackles and 1.5 sacks.

Prior to the 2020 season, Johnson had gotten just four starts, but started every game for the purple this past season.

With Johnson’s departure, the Vikings don’t have a whole lot of in-house free agents remaining. The list includes
  • QB Sean Mannion
  • LB Todd Davis
  • OL Brett Jones
  • S George Iloka
 



2021 or bust.


Thing will be -- and of course, this will happen -- what decision do you make if they're 10-6, make the playoffs, and either lose the wildcard game or win that and then lose the divisional?


Unless we're 13-3 and at least go to the NFC championship, I say can their asses.
 

MplsGopher said:
2021 or bust.


Thing will be -- and of course, this will happen -- what decision do you make if they're 10-6, make the playoffs, and either lose the wildcard game or win that and then lose the divisional?


Unless we're 13-3 and at least go to the NFC championship, I say can their asses.
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So, if they go 12-4 and win a playoff game, you're in favor of firing everybody?
 


Gopher_In_NYC said:
Good signing by them - productive player @ reasonable cost.
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Eric Wilson showed me enough that if I was a GM, I think he would have been worth a 3yr/$10-12mil deal. Is he elite? No. But he was in the right place at the right time, and was steady. He's a good, steady player to have on your team that also leaves you money left over to sign higher-impact guys elsewhere.
 



RememberMurray said:
So, if they go 12-4 and win a playoff game, you're in favor of firing everybody?
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Yes. 12-4 with one playoff win is not good enough as a ceiling.

The Vikings only goal should be to hire a staff that is good enough to make it to the Super Bowl in the next 10 years. The long time fans deserve it one last time ...
 

MplsGopher said:
Yes. 12-4 with one playoff win is not good enough as a ceiling.

The Vikings only goal should be to hire a staff that is good enough to make it to the Super Bowl in the next 10 years. The long time fans deserve it one last time ...
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Wow. So, after a 12-4 season with another playoff appearance and another playoff win, you've determined Zimmer & Co. simply can't get you there.

Then you hire a new coaching staff and a new GM. How long do you give the new people to win a Super Bowl before you fire them as well?
 

RememberMurray said:
Then you hire a new coaching staff and a new GM. How long do you give the new people to win a Super Bowl before you fire them as well?
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The second sentence in the post still exactly applies to this question.

That should be the goal, no matter if Zim/Spiel are retained further or we start fresh in 2022.

If the Browns can do it ...
 

MplsGopher said:
The second sentence in the post still exactly applies to this question.

That should be the goal, no matter if Zim/Spiel are retained further or we start fresh in 2022.

If the Browns can do it ...
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If the Browns can do... what? Sorry, you lost me.
 


MplsGopher said:
Hire an excellent pair of youngish, up and coming, talented GM/HC.
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????????????

So is this an age thing?

How long, in your timeline, does the current Browns staff have before you'd fire them, assuming they don't win a Super Bowl?
 

RememberMurray said:
So is this an age thing?
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Not at all. No reason for you to make this into a strawman.

RememberMurray said:
How long, in your timeline, does the current Browns staff have before you'd fire them, assuming they don't win a Super Bowl?
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I said what I said, for the Vikings. I am not changing it.

I guess you'll just have to deal with that, and stop the faux outrage over the idea of firing Zim and Spiel.
 

MplsGopher said:
Not at all. No reason for you to make this into a strawman.


I said what I said, for the Vikings. I am not changing it.

I guess you'll just have to deal with that, and stop the faux outrage over the idea of firing Zim and Spiel.
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I asked a few simple questions. There is no straw man, and I have no idea why you would sense any 'outrage' on my part.

I'm sincerely sorry if I upset you, though.
 

Well, when you use 17 question marks, it does imply a certain tone to the post ...

Apologies if I misread it.
 

MplsGopher said:
Well, when you use 17 question marks, it does imply a certain tone to the post ...

Apologies if I misread it.
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No apology necessary. The question marks were intended to imply that I was puzzled by what you wrote.
 

Two or three gets it done. ;)

Nothing to do with age. I just think that it's time to go in a new direction if Zim and Spiel can't get it done this year.

Honestly, the regular season record doesn't matter near as much as at least getting to the NFC championship game. Regular season record can get bogged down by injuries at times, etc.
 

MplsGopher said:
Two or three gets it done. ;)

Nothing to do with age. I just think that it's time to go in a new direction if Zim and Spiel can't get it done this year.

Honestly, the regular season record doesn't matter near as much as at least getting to the NFC championship game. Regular season record can get bogged down by injuries at times, etc.
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Okay, I think I get it now.

I have to say, though, that I would be shocked if the Vikings — or any other NFL team — fired their entire staff after a 12-4 season that included a playoff win.
 

RememberMurray said:
Okay, I think I get it now.

I have to say, though, that I would be shocked if the Vikings — or any other NFL team — fired their entire staff after a 12-4 season that included a playoff win.
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But they're setting the team up for 2021 or bust. And less than NFC championship is bust for me.

So they should reap what they sow.


Going 12-4 and then losing in the division (regardless if BYE or not) should also be seen as a choke job.
 

MplsGopher said:
Yes. 12-4 with one playoff win is not good enough as a ceiling.

The Vikings only goal should be to hire a staff that is good enough to make it to the Super Bowl in the next 10 years. The long time fans deserve it one last time ...
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Generally speaking, I agree with you. Zim/Spielman have had enough time that you should stand back and look at the aggregate and determine if this arrangement is something that will get you to a superbowl. Honestly, basing a decision on one year doesn't make sense to me. You have enough evidence to base a decision on the whole body of work. I look at it a lot like the Pitino situation; I honestly didn't care what he did this year in terms of record. I did not see his system being a long term path to success. Could he potentially have success here and there with the right mix of players? Sure. But to me, there wasn't a framework to success that could be relied upon. Look at places like Purdue and Wisconsin- the players change, but the system and success are relatively consistent (and at non-blue blood schools). This is also why a one-season dip in performance for Fleck doesn't bother me. I believe he has setup a framework to long-term success. Now, if he has three seasons in a row below .500, you may need to look at that framework and determine if it's still viable. But that hasn't happened yet.

In regard to the Vikes, the unwillingness to address the two glaring holes in the team year after year- OL and an elite QB make me question their ability to have sustained success. They've had SOME success, but when you look at the actual record and playoff performance over their tenure, my perception is that they've been more successful than they actually have been. Look at SF- they have a QB that got them to a superbowl, but I think all would agree is not elite. They acknowledged this, and are going all-in on a long-term replacement at no.3 in the draft. Now, if they select the wrong guy (Mac Jones seems like a stretch to me), it will all blow up in their face. But they realized that Jimmy G is not a way to sustain success. The Vikes haven't gotten as far as Jimmy G has taken the 49ers, and still people are willing to cut Cousins (and the Vikes) endless amounts of slack.

Going forward, it would seem leadership will be on a year-to-year basis based on past performance. That's not a way to build a team for the future, with the GM and coach constantly looking over their shoulder waiting for the grim reaper to arrive. I believe a decision has to be made at the top to either cut the rope and fire them, and find suitable replacements. Or commit long term (at least 3 years) to the current guys to give them some latitude to plan for the future and take time to be able to develop a QB for the future. I would prefer they be let go, but this year-to-year shit has to end. It is not going to ultimately get them where they want to go.
 

MplsGopher said:
But they're setting the team up for 2021 or bust. And less than NFC championship is bust for me.

So they should reap what they sow.


Going 12-4 and then losing in the division (regardless if BYE or not) should also be seen as a choke job.
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I'm not arguing with you, but I'm curious as to what the team has done this offseason that says "2021 or bust"?
 

RememberMurray said:
I'm not arguing with you, but I'm curious as to what the team has done this offseason that says "2021 or bust"?
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Read the thread. Others (Ogee in particular) have laid out that case pretty well, I think.

The biggest thing by far is Cousin's contract. Even though, yes, the obvious thing is to rework it to kick the can down the road. But still ...
 

forever a gopher said:
Generally speaking, I agree with you. Zim/Spielman have had enough time that you should stand back and look at the aggregate and determine if this arrangement is something that will get you to a superbowl. Honestly, basing a decision on one year doesn't make sense to me. You have enough evidence to base a decision on the whole body of work. I look at it a lot like the Pitino situation; I honestly didn't care what he did this year in terms of record. I did not see his system being a long term path to success. Could he potentially have success here and there with the right mix of players? Sure. But to me, there wasn't a framework to success that could be relied upon. Look at places like Purdue and Wisconsin- the players change, but the system and success are relatively consistent (and at non-blue blood schools). This is also why a one-season dip in performance for Fleck doesn't bother me. I believe he has setup a framework to long-term success. Now, if he has three seasons in a row below .500, you may need to look at that framework and determine if it's still viable. But that hasn't happened yet.

In regard to the Vikes, the unwillingness to address the two glaring holes in the team year after year- OL and an elite QB make me question their ability to have sustained success. They've had SOME success, but when you look at the actual record and playoff performance over their tenure, my perception is that they've been more successful than they actually have been. Look at SF- they have a QB that got them to a superbowl, but I think all would agree is not elite. They acknowledged this, and are going all-in on a long-term replacement at no.3 in the draft. Now, if they select the wrong guy (Mac Jones seems like a stretch to me), it will all blow up in their face. But they realized that Jimmy G is not a way to sustain success. The Vikes haven't gotten as far as Jimmy G has taken the 49ers, and still people are willing to cut Cousins (and the Vikes) endless amounts of slack.

Going forward, it would seem leadership will be on a year-to-year basis based on past performance. That's not a way to build a team for the future, with the GM and coach constantly looking over their shoulder waiting for the grim reaper to arrive. I believe a decision has to be made at the top to either cut the rope and fire them, and find suitable replacements. Or commit long term (at least 3 years) to the current guys to give them some latitude to plan for the future and take time to be able to develop a QB for the future. I would prefer they be let go, but this year-to-year shit has to end. It is not going to ultimately get them where they want to go.
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Great post!

The way you talk about the 9ers "doing whatever it will take", I agree, and it's almost like this really weird thing where it's the MLB. The Yankees can just buy whatever they want, to win.

All the NFL teams have the same salary cap and share revenue ... but it still seems somehow that some teams can just decide that they want/need to do it big time and then do it, while others "can't" somehow.
 

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