All Things 2021 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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short ornery norwegian said:
If the 49'ers are willing to give up 2 #1 picks to move up in the draft and take a rookie QB, I wonder what they would have given up for Cousins?

Was listening to Doogie on Skor North with Mackey and Judd. the gist was that the Vikes are going "all in" on 2021. Ziggy wants to see the team in the playoffs, and Zimmer and Spielman's jobs may be on the line. So, Zimm and Spielman (according to Doogie) are basically saying "bleep the future" and doing whatever they can to have the best possible team this year. Which could really bite them in the butt a couple of years from now with cap room, etc.

But, if it doesn't work, then Zimm and Spielman won't be around to deal with the mess.
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I didn't hear the show, but I really don't understand their premise.

What specific moves have the Vikings made that says "bleep the future"?

They haven't traded any draft picks for veteran players.

Last season, they let almost all of their veteran DBs (Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander) walk in free agency, and then promptly replaced them with youngsters/rookies. That certainly doesn't say "bleep the future". They signed Michael Pierce last year, but he's only 28 years old.

This season, they let veteran starters Rudolph, Reiff and Harris leave via free agency. Their main free agent additions so far are Dalvin Tomlinson and Patrick Peterson. Tomlinson is only 27. Peterson signed a one-year deal, so that certainly isn't going to impact the future.

What am I missing? Where did Viking brass make any moves that look anything like mortgaging the future?
 

Vikings bringing back Mackensie Alexander to help bolster the secondary. No word on the money yet that I could see but if the price is right, they could use the help. Not a WOW move, but hopefully low risk, decent reward. At least he'll be familiar with what Zim wants to do on the back end.

Depth kicked the Vikings in the nuts last year, so while not sexy, moves like Mason Cole and Alexander will help
 

RememberMurray said:
They haven't traded any draft picks for veteran players.

What am I missing? Where did Viking brass make any moves that look anything like mortgaging the future?
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They traded what became the number 46 overall pick this year for Ngakoe this past season. I think that classifies as trading picks for veterans. And a veteran that only played here a handful of games.

They mortgaged the future by signing Cousins to a deal that puts his cap hit in ‘22 at $45million, which is already guaranteed. If you don’t think having an average quarterback counting that much against your cap isn’t going to hurt your team, I don’t know what to tell you.
 

forever a gopher said:
They traded what became the number 46 overall pick this year for Ngakoe this past season. I think that classifies as trading picks for veterans. And a veteran that only played here a handful of games.

They mortgaged the future by signing Cousins to a deal that puts his cap hit in ‘22 at $45million, which is already guaranteed. If you don’t think having an average quarterback counting that much against your cap isn’t going to hurt your team, I don’t know what to tell you.
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You can certainly criticize them for signing Cousins, and I know many Viking fans despise #8 (although I don't recall much criticism at the time, from fans) but that move in and of itself didn't mortgage the future in the sense that Cousins wasn't an aging player, and still isn't 'old'. He is what he is, but the guy plays every week — durable as hell. Also, the cap should go up substantially after this season, and when it does and teams start spending accordingly Cousins' deal may look a lot less burdensome.

The Ngakoe trade was obviously a swing and a miss. Awful. But that's the only draft pick they traded for a veteran player. I get your point, but I still don't see a wholesale mortgaging of the future.
 

Sam Danold?

Any ineptest from the board GMs in trading for him if the Jets take a QB @ #2 as expected.

He is still only 23, has experience as a starter and probably could be had for one or two middle round picks - the Jets won some games down the stretch despite not having a legit #1 WR or RB. He was old front office's QB, so I expect him to be moved in some form of fashion. I also think our current back up QBs blow.

I''ll hang up and listen.
 


RememberMurray said:
You can certainly criticize them for signing Cousins, and I know many Viking fans despise #8 (although I don't recall much criticism at the time, from fans) but that move in and of itself didn't mortgage the future in the sense that Cousins wasn't an aging player, and still isn't 'old'. He is what he is, but the guy plays every week — durable as hell. Also, the cap should go up substantially after this season, and when it does and teams start spending accordingly Cousins' deal may look a lot less burdensome.

The Ngakoe trade was obviously a swing and a miss. Awful. But that's the only draft pick they traded for a veteran player. I get your point, but I still don't see a wholesale mortgaging of the future.
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To be clear - I was trying to express what Doogie was saying. It's his contention that Zimmer and Spielman are under pressure to win this year and at the very least, get the team back in the playoffs.
And that they are making moves strictly with 2021 in mind.

But, I do tend to agree with him. The Vikes are doing a lot of restructuring moves to clear cap space for this season, but those bills tend to come due in future seasons. $10-mill for Patrick Peterson - a guy who has really slipped in coverage according to PFF. That smacks of a "win now" attitude. Not a long-term approach to building a contending roster. Look at the Patriots - they are always thinking 2 or 3 years down the road. That's what smart organizations do. Desperate organizations throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks.

I personally would have rather seen them try to move Cousins, move up in a QB-heavy draft, and get the QB of the future, and also build the OL. But, Zimmer wants veterans on defense, and he's getting them. So, we'll see how it works out.

And Doogie's point is that, if it doesn't work out, Zimmer and Spielman are probably gone, and someone else gets to inherit their mess, including all the salary cap issues, an aging defense, and one of the worst OL's in the NFL.
 

forever a gopher said:
They traded what became the number 46 overall pick this year for Ngakoe this past season. I think that classifies as trading picks for veterans. And a veteran that only played here a handful of games.

They mortgaged the future by signing Cousins to a deal that puts his cap hit in ‘22 at $45million, which is already guaranteed. If you don’t think having an average quarterback counting that much against your cap isn’t going to hurt your team, I don’t know what to tell you.
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He's above average .... if he gets time to throw. Maybe that's every NFL QB, but I'm not so sure.

As soon as he panics, and someone lightly touches his shoelace: sack.
 

forever a gopher said:
They traded what became the number 46 overall pick this year for Ngakoe this past season. I think that classifies as trading picks for veterans. And a veteran that only played here a handful of games.

They mortgaged the future by signing Cousins to a deal that puts his cap hit in ‘22 at $45million, which is already guaranteed. If you don’t think having an average quarterback counting that much against your cap isn’t going to hurt your team, I don’t know what to tell you.
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Well, Zim dumped Yannick N because he wouldn't play the way Zim wanted him to play; all he does is run upfield, run past the QB, lose contain. Now trading for him in the first place if that was the book on him? That's on either Zim or Spielman for sure, if that was indeed not new for his style of play.

I'd also be shocked if Cousins is playing for the Vikings in 2022 at a $45M cap hit also. That's not going to happen and it never was.
 

The Vikings either need to make the Superbowl this coming season, or we need to just fire the whole lot of them and start new.

I think that's how Zim/Spiel are playing it, too.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
To be clear - I was trying to express what Doogie was saying. It's his contention that Zimmer and Spielman are under pressure to win this year and at the very least, get the team back in the playoffs.
And that they are making moves strictly with 2021 in mind.

But, I do tend to agree with him. The Vikes are doing a lot of restructuring moves to clear cap space for this season, but those bills tend to come due in future seasons. $10-mill for Patrick Peterson - a guy who has really slipped in coverage according to PFF. That smacks of a "win now" attitude. Not a long-term approach to building a contending roster. Look at the Patriots - they are always thinking 2 or 3 years down the road. That's what smart organizations do. Desperate organizations throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks.

I personally would have rather seen them try to move Cousins, move up in a QB-heavy draft, and get the QB of the future, and also build the OL. But, Zimmer wants veterans on defense, and he's getting them. So, we'll see how it works out.

And Doogie's point is that, if it doesn't work out, Zimmer and Spielman are probably gone, and someone else gets to inherit their mess, including all the salary cap issues, an aging defense, and one of the worst OL's in the NFL.
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Yes, I get you that it was Doogie's premise, not yours.

Patrick Peterson is on a one-year deal, I believe. So the team is off the hook on him after this season; no repercussions for the future.

As far as moving Cousins is concerned, I agree that the team apparently feels as though they can compete in 2021. If that's their belief, there's no way they'll dump him — because there's no one available who is as good or better to replace him.

To me, Mackey and Judd and SKOR North have sounded as though they've been trying to get rid of Cousins — and Zim, and Spielman — for some time now. It's their go-to.

But I'm not sure this team is all that terrible. I think they might be pretty good in 2021. I'm not in favor of burning it down and starting over.
 

MplsGopher said:
He's above average .... if he gets time to throw. Maybe that's every NFL QB, but I'm not so sure.

As soon as he panics, and someone lightly touches his shoelace: sack.
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True... but in the most recent Super Bowl, Patrick Mahomes got pressured relentlessly — and, for maybe the first time that I've seen, he looked very, very average. Very flustered.

And Patrick Mahomes just might be the best QB in the NFL right now. So that tells me that most any QB can look bad under constant pressure.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I'd also be shocked if Cousins is playing for the Vikings in 2022 at a $45M cap hit also. That's not going to happen and it never was.
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In your opinion, what do you think will happen to him? IMO, it’ll depend on what happens this season and thus, what happens to Zim/Spielman. Because it’s guaranteed, really the only things that could occur is they let him play out his contract in ‘22 at that massive cap hit, or they restructure/extend again to kick that can further down the road, or they find somebody stupid enough to trade for him and they restructure/extend.

The problem with his deal being guaranteed is that he has no incentive to restructure to take years and/or salary off and become a free agent (like Barr). He’s not going to get a similar deal from another team on the open market. Other problem is with what is owed to him in ‘22, he is much less tradable next year than he is this year.
 

forever a gopher said:
In your opinion, what do you think will happen to him? IMO, it’ll depend on what happens this season and thus, what happens to Zim/Spielman. Because it’s guaranteed, really the only things that could occur is they let him play out his contract in ‘22 at that massive cap hit, or they restructure/extend again to kick that can further down the road, or they find somebody stupid enough to trade for him and they restructure/extend.

The problem with his deal being guaranteed is that he has no incentive to restructure to take years and/or salary off and become a free agent (like Barr). He’s not going to get a similar deal from another team on the open market. Other problem is with what is owed to him in ‘22, he is much less tradable next year than he is this year.
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I may be wrong, but just because the $45M is guaranteed, it isn't necessarily going to be a full cap hit of that amount. I forget what podcast I was listening to but I think they were dead sure that there will be a restructuring that will reduce some of that cap hit somehow. Apologies for not remembering the specifics, but the gist I got is that it won't be as bad as it sounds? The Vikings podcaster cap expert seemed relatively unconcerned.

Here's the thing; while I may not like it and you (or most Vikings fans!) may not like it, you can make a strong argument that Cousins is about as perfect a QB as Zimmer could ask for, at least without being a top-5, future HOF'er. From Zimmer's standpoint, a defensive-minded Head Coach, in Cousins you have a QB that is durable, answers the bell, is predictable and even-keeled and drama-free, is relatively turnover free, and is pretty close to a model, ball-control, control-the-TOP, keep-your-D-off-the-field Quarterback. That is 100% what Zimmer is looking for.

With a typical Zimmer defense, Cousins' performance last year could have easily had the Vikings winning the division and making the NFC Champ game. I haven't looked at the schedule yet but if they manage to land an interior OL like Vera-Tucker with their 1st rounder, and he plays well, I'd bet the OVER on Vikings wins this year for sure. An OL of O'Neill, Vera-Tucker (or other draft pick), Bradbury, Cole, Cleveland should be a reasonable improvement over last year
 



Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I may be wrong, but just because the $45M is guaranteed, it isn't necessarily going to be a full cap hit of that amount. I forget what podcast I was listening to but I think they were dead sure that there will be a restructuring that will reduce some of that cap hit somehow. Apologies for not remembering the specifics, but the gist I got is that it won't be as bad as it sounds? The Vikings podcaster cap expert seemed relatively unconcerned.

Here's the thing; while I may not like it and you (or most Vikings fans!) may not like it, you can make a strong argument that Cousins is about as perfect a QB as Zimmer could ask for, at least without being a top-5, future HOF'er. From Zimmer's standpoint, a defensive-minded Head Coach, in Cousins you have a QB that is durable, answers the bell, is predictable and even-keeled and drama-free, is relatively turnover free, and is pretty close to a model, ball-control, control-the-TOP, keep-your-D-off-the-field Quarterback. That is 100% what Zimmer is looking for.

With a typical Zimmer defense, Cousins' performance last year could have easily had the Vikings winning the division and making the NFC Champ game. I haven't looked at the schedule yet but if they manage to land an interior OL like Vera-Tucker with their 1st rounder, and he plays well, I'd bet the OVER on Vikings wins this year for sure. An OL of O'Neill, Vera-Tucker (or other draft pick), Bradbury, Cole, Cleveland should be a reasonable improvement over last year
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If people in the know aren’t concerned, that makes me feel a little better. I’m just going off what is listed in his contract. He is still owed $35MM next year + $10 MM signing bonus.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/
 

If the cap goes up, and goes up dramatically, with new, rich TV contracts (as is widely expected), Cousins' cap number won't look as bad as it does now.

But I do wonder what the team plans to do after 2022 at QB.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Here's the thing; while I may not like it and you (or most Vikings fans!) may not like it, you can make a strong argument that Cousins is about as perfect a QB as Zimmer could ask for, at least without being a top-5, future HOF'er. From Zimmer's standpoint, a defensive-minded Head Coach, in Cousins you have a QB that is durable, answers the bell, is predictable and even-keeled and drama-free, is relatively turnover free, and is pretty close to a model, ball-control, control-the-TOP, keep-your-D-off-the-field Quarterback. That is 100% what Zimmer is looking for.
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Those are all really valid points. He's durable. He can fit the ball in a window, and has a strong arm (which is great for Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen). And He's Mr. Clean off the field.

Regarding "drama-free": How would you like to be the management team for the Houston Texans right now?

Regarding "durable", how would you feel if your projected starter was Jimmy Garappolo?
 

forever a gopher said:
They traded what became the number 46 overall pick this year for Ngakoe this past season. I think that classifies as trading picks for veterans. And a veteran that only played here a handful of games.

They mortgaged the future by signing Cousins to a deal that puts his cap hit in ‘22 at $45million, which is already guaranteed. If you don’t think having an average quarterback counting that much against your cap isn’t going to hurt your team, I don’t know what to tell you.
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The Ngakoe trade made sense and they got a 3rd back when they traded him. Hardly a huge loss.

They will have to do something with Cousins next year with that cap #, but they haven't "mortgaged" anything yet. The cap will go way up in 2023.
 


howeda7 said:
The Ngakoe trade made sense and they got a 3rd back when they traded him. Hardly a huge loss.

They will have to do something with Cousins next year with that cap #, but they haven't "mortgaged" anything yet. The cap will go way up in 2023.
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Exactly.
 



Let's see. Starters on defense...
---------

DL: Hunter, Pierce, Tomlinson, Wonnum

LB: Barr, Kendricks, Vigil

CB: Dantzler, Alexander, Peterson, Gladney

S: Smith, Woods

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That looks pretty solid.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
Sam Danold?

Any ineptest from the board GMs in trading for him if the Jets take a QB @ #2 as expected.

He is still only 23, has experience as a starter and probably could be had for one or two middle round picks - the Jets won some games down the stretch despite not having a legit #1 WR or RB. He was old front office's QB, so I expect him to be moved in some form of fashion. I also think our current back up QBs blow.

I''ll hang up and listen.
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I would love to see that.
 


One thing I'm curious about, what type of growth will be seen from last year's rookie class with a full off-season program + training camp. Jefferson and Dantzler were standouts even with the truncated off/pre-season programs last season, and Cleveland and Gladney will be a big part of the future plans, we hope. I see Dye, Hand, Osborn, Brandel, Metellus, Willekes, and Hinton are still on the roster, along with a couple of undrafted free agents.

It seems overall they got a lot of snaps from that group last year, it'd be great to see them take a big leap. Among that second level of draftees, are there players that the braintrust is pretty high on?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I would love to see that.
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I wouldn't mind seeing them take a flyer on Darnold but I just don't see that happening. The Vikings, not this year, won't pay what it will take to get Darnold from the Jets. The Jets are in a position to slow play this and hang on to Darnold until someone desperate overpays for him, IF they haven't decided to keep him anyway. They are wisely keeping things close to the vest right now, seeing if someone will pay a King's ransom to move up to that spot.

Don't forget that Saleh (Jets new HC) came from the 49ers who just traded up to #3; I wouldn't be SHOCKED if the 49ers possibly got some kind of commitment from the Jets on what they were doing at #2? It seems odd that they would gamble that the QB they like the most will be there at #3 without having a pretty good idea of what the Jets were doing at #2. The only hole in that theory, if the Jets plan on sticking with Darnold and drafting the best non-QB, is that they would almost be closing the door on someone blowing their doors off for the QB they want to grab ahead of the 49ers.
 

coolhandgopher said:
One thing I'm curious about, what type of growth will be seen from last year's rookie class with a full off-season program + training camp. Jefferson and Dantzler were standouts even with the truncated off/pre-season programs last season, and Cleveland and Gladney will be a big part of the future plans, we hope. I see Dye, Hand, Osborn, Brandel, Metellus, Willekes, and Hinton are still on the roster, along with a couple of undrafted free agents.

It seems overall they got a lot of snaps from that group last year, it'd be great to see them take a big leap. Among that second level of draftees, are there players that the braintrust is pretty high on?
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Agree 100%. I think the defense could be really, really good this year. The DE opposite Hunter is kinda up in the air; Wonnum, Weatherly, Holmes, Hercules, Lynch, player to be named later?

At the very least, you gotta believe with the recent offseason moves at the very least they should NOT be taking a DB in the first round, at least if they stay where they are. That would be a refreshing change in itself.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I wouldn't mind seeing them take a flyer on Darnold but I just don't see that happening. The Vikings, not this year, won't pay what it will take to get Darnold from the Jets. The Jets are in a position to slow play this and hang on to Darnold until someone desperate overpays for him, IF they haven't decided to keep him anyway. They are wisely keeping things close to the vest right now, seeing if someone will pay a King's ransom to move up to that spot.

Don't forget that Saleh (Jets new HC) came from the 49ers who just traded up to #3; I wouldn't be SHOCKED if the 49ers possibly got some kind of commitment from the Jets on what they were doing at #2? It seems odd that they would gamble that the QB they like the most will be there at #3 without having a pretty good idea of what the Jets were doing at #2. The only hole in that theory, if the Jets plan on sticking with Darnold and drafting the best non-QB, is that they would almost be closing the door on someone blowing their doors off for the QB they want to grab ahead of the 49ers.
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I’m a hard pass on Darnold. He wasn’t spectacular at USC, and was drastically over drafted to begin with (granted, that comes with the position). I can’t imagine anybody other than a QB will go at 2. Either the Jets draft one (most likely), or they trade it to another QB hungry team. I’m all in on drafting a franchise QB, whatever it takes. I know it won’t happen this year. The only thing you can call a franchise QB in this teams history is Tarkenton and Culpepper (and that one is a stretch). Especially with the way the league is now, you need an elite QB to succeed. The rules are more QB friendly now than ever. Darnold is not an elite QB. At best, he is a placeholder. And this franchise has only had placeholders for the better part of 40 years.
 
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Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Agree 100%. I think the defense could be really, really good this year. The DE opposite Hunter is kinda up in the air; Wonnum, Weatherly, Holmes, Hercules, Lynch, player to be named later?

At the very least, you gotta believe with the recent offseason moves at the very least they should NOT be taking a DB in the first round, at least if they stay where they are. That would be a refreshing change in itself.
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Kiper had a piece speculating the Vikes could trade up and get Sewell. While I don’t see that happening, I would love that. Getting a guy that could be a 10+ year anchor at LT is worth a lot.

I would love to see them go OT at 14, I just don’t see them going anywhere but DE.
 

I heard the Vikings are still $6.8 million under the cap, and that number supposedly increases dramatically after June 1 — something to do with Rudolph's exit.

If all that's accurate, then they still have some dough to address the o-line, or a defensive end, in free agency.
 

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