All Things 2021-2022 Minnesota Twins Off-Season Thread

GophersInIowa

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This clip pops up from time to time. Always get a kick out of the reactions from the dugout.

 


short ornery norwegian

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during the 1981 work stoppage, I remember they were showing minor-league games on TV.

I wonder if Bally's, MLB network, etc have plans to broadcast minor-league games.

don't know about the logistics, but it would be fun if they could alternate between Triple A, Double A, or Single A games - showcase some of the younger prospects.
 




short ornery norwegian

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I will just point out that those are the "prospects" - meaning that they have no major league time or in the case of Ryan, just a few games. There are other young players like Kirilloff who have lost their 'prospect' status because of accrued major league time, but are still considered rising talents.

the real test on Falvey will be over the next couple of years. this current group of young players and prospects has to pay off - especially with the pitching. if 3 or 4 of the pitching prospects pan out, the Twins could have a really fun nucleus of young talent to build around.
 

forever a gopher

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It’s international signing day. I guess this is still happening even with the lockout.


So until the 2021 draft, Falvine has ignored pitching completely in the top rounds. They supplement this by adding three more position player prospects and no pitching. With how much they spend, the Twins can accumulate enough offense through trades and free agency to be competitive. They cannot do the same with pitching. The only way the Twins can stockpile arms is through the draft, rule 5, and international signings. It's no different than Spielman not giving enough weight to the QB position. If you use more bullets, you will hit more targets. Scoring runs may get you into the playoffs, but pitching is what gets you a WS.
 

GophersInIowa

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So until the 2021 draft, Falvine has ignored pitching completely in the top rounds. They supplement this by adding three more position player prospects and no pitching. With how much they spend, the Twins can accumulate enough offense through trades and free agency to be competitive. They cannot do the same with pitching. The only way the Twins can stockpile arms is through the draft, rule 5, and international signings. It's no different than Spielman not giving enough weight to the QB position. If you use more bullets, you will hit more targets. Scoring runs may get you into the playoffs, but pitching is what gets you a WS.
You’re forgetting trades. They have certainly stockpiled pitchers. Duran, Woods-Richardson, Canterino, Petty, Winder, Moran, Sands and Enlow are all top 15-20 Twins prospects, they just aren’t in the overall top 100.
 




howeda7

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100 divided by 30 (teams) is 3 1/3. That the Twins have 1 2/3 prospects above the average team is good, not bad.
Yes. But 1 in the top 50 and 4 from 82-100. It's not as good as it has been previously, especially considering two of them are from the "bounty" we netted in trades last summer. The pitcher we got for Berrios isn't even top 100 and Lewis's ranking has plummeted.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Twins Daily had a breakdown on 1st round draft pick Chase Petty.

Kid is just out of HS. hits 102 with the fast ball, has a good slider and he's working on a change-up.

best thing was a video from some guy who breaks down mechanics. He said Petty has some of the best mechanics he's ever evaluated for a kid that age. went into a long breakdown on how he uses his hips to generate power.

worth a view.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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I will just point out that those are the "prospects" - meaning that they have no major league time or in the case of Ryan, just a few games. There are other young players like Kirilloff who have lost their 'prospect' status because of accrued major league time, but are still considered rising talents.

the real test on Falvey will be over the next couple of years. this current group of young players and prospects has to pay off - especially with the pitching. if 3 or 4 of the pitching prospects pan out, the Twins could have a really fun nucleus of young talent to build around.
Let’s see who joins Bailey and Joe in the starting rotation- 1 this year is mandatory, but 2 would be great - Rays did it last year
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Yes. But 1 in the top 50 and 4 from 82-100. It's not as good as it has been previously, especially considering two of them are from the "bounty" we netted in trades last summer. The pitcher we got for Berrios isn't even top 100 and Lewis's ranking has plummeted.
Not playing 2 years in a row causes anyone’s ranking to drop. If you want to evaluate the recency bias where did it drop year to year from 2020 to 2020
 



forever a gopher

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You’re forgetting trades. They have certainly stockpiled pitchers. Duran, Woods-Richardson, Canterino, Petty, Winder, Moran, Sands and Enlow are all top 15-20 Twins prospects, they just aren’t in the overall top 100.
Look at the Twins roster over the past 5-ish years and list all the starting pitchers that have been above average (not exactly an incredibly high bar). The list isn't very long. Berrios, Odorizzi for about 2 seasons, Big Mike for stretches within a season, Maeda for one season, Ervin Santana for a couple seasons. Now make the same list for position players. I don't have time to do it, but the list is significantly longer. Not that this is necessarily unique to the Twins.

However, go back even farther. How many dominant pitchers have the Twins had since Santana/Liriano? Berrios....and maybe a couple of guys for a season or two at a time, but nothing long term. This has been a dearth in the organization for a LONG time. So your list includes 8 guys in the top 15-20. If your 25 man roster consists of 13 pitchers, then at least half your "top" prospects should be pitchers. I'm saying they need to overcompensate for the severe lack of pitching this organization has endured for a long time. They can sign guys like Donaldson, Cruz . You can sign guys off the trash heap like Eddie Rosario (and guys at his level) for comparatively a pittance and have a competent offense. With what they're willing to pay to free agents, you can't get pitchers like that and have a competent pitching staff. Thus, they need to overcompensate on pitching and infill the holes on offense via free agency, not the other way around. That's what they've been doing, and we're left with guys like Homer Bailey penciled in your 5 man rotation to start the season.
 

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Position players are also safer than pitchers. If a position player prospect and a pitching prospect are equally rated, then the position player is the more valuable player.
 

GophersInIowa

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Look at the Twins roster over the past 5-ish years and list all the starting pitchers that have been above average (not exactly an incredibly high bar). The list isn't very long. Berrios, Odorizzi for about 2 seasons, Big Mike for stretches within a season, Maeda for one season, Ervin Santana for a couple seasons. Now make the same list for position players. I don't have time to do it, but the list is significantly longer. Not that this is necessarily unique to the Twins.

However, go back even farther. How many dominant pitchers have the Twins had since Santana/Liriano? Berrios....and maybe a couple of guys for a season or two at a time, but nothing long term. This has been a dearth in the organization for a LONG time. So your list includes 8 guys in the top 15-20. If your 25 man roster consists of 13 pitchers, then at least half your "top" prospects should be pitchers. I'm saying they need to overcompensate for the severe lack of pitching this organization has endured for a long time. They can sign guys like Donaldson, Cruz . You can sign guys off the trash heap like Eddie Rosario (and guys at his level) for comparatively a pittance and have a competent offense. With what they're willing to pay to free agents, you can't get pitchers like that and have a competent pitching staff. Thus, they need to overcompensate on pitching and infill the holes on offense via free agency, not the other way around. That's what they've been doing, and we're left with guys like Homer Bailey penciled in your 5 man rotation to start the season.
I didn’t list the two guys that were already listed because they were in the top 100 overall. So it’s 10 in the top 15-20 which is right around where you’d hope they’d be right now. They haven’t drafted pitchers in the first few rounds but they’ve done a great job stockpiling through trades.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Look at the Twins roster over the past 5-ish years and list all the starting pitchers that have been above average (not exactly an incredibly high bar). The list isn't very long. Berrios, Odorizzi for about 2 seasons, Big Mike for stretches within a season, Maeda for one season, Ervin Santana for a couple seasons. Now make the same list for position players. I don't have time to do it, but the list is significantly longer. Not that this is necessarily unique to the Twins.

However, go back even farther. How many dominant pitchers have the Twins had since Santana/Liriano? Berrios....and maybe a couple of guys for a season or two at a time, but nothing long term. This has been a dearth in the organization for a LONG time. So your list includes 8 guys in the top 15-20. If your 25 man roster consists of 13 pitchers, then at least half your "top" prospects should be pitchers. I'm saying they need to overcompensate for the severe lack of pitching this organization has endured for a long time. They can sign guys like Donaldson, Cruz . You can sign guys off the trash heap like Eddie Rosario (and guys at his level) for comparatively a pittance and have a competent offense. With what they're willing to pay to free agents, you can't get pitchers like that and have a competent pitching staff. Thus, they need to overcompensate on pitching and infill the holes on offense via free agency, not the other way around. That's what they've been doing, and we're left with guys like Homer Bailey penciled in your 5 man rotation to start the season.
Strongly disagree as Bailey showed MLB talent last year - do a deep dive on his stats, he isn’t going to be an ace, but you need 5 reliable starters and he can be one of those
 

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Congratulations to former Twins slugger David Ortiz for being elected into Cooperstown.

What 2 dimwits voted for his former teammate AJ Pierzynski?


Hunter, Nathan & Morneau also got a few.
 

GophersInIowa

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Congratulations to former Twins slugger David Ortiz for being elected into Cooperstown.

What 2 dimwits voted for his former teammate AJ Pierzynski?


Hunter, Nathan & Morneau also got a few.
It’s a shame Nathan didn’t get more votes. One of the top closers of his time.
 

Ope3

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It’s a shame Nathan didn’t get more votes. One of the top closers of his time.
While not a HoFer in my mind, I agree he's at least worthy for some consideration. If he stayed healthy, he could have really compiled some stats. If his teams, specifically the Twins, had post-season success he probably gets a much closer look.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Congratulations to former Twins slugger David Ortiz for being elected into Cooperstown.

What 2 dimwits voted for his former teammate AJ Pierzynski?


Hunter, Nathan & Morneau also got a few.
Unleash the cyber ninjas 🥷
 

#2Gopher

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Kind of strange turn around for Ortiz. He was struggling when he left here, no one claimed him on waivers, Boston came extremely close to cutting him as he wasn't producing at all and then he literally sky rocked. People then started laughing at the Twins etc. Baseball players are hard to gauge at times as to who will excel and who won't. Look at Hicks who ended up with the Yankees and doing pretty good now. Regardless good for Ortiz. He never gave up.
 

GophersInIowa

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While not a HoFer in my mind, I agree he's at least worthy for some consideration. If he stayed healthy, he could have really compiled some stats. If his teams, specifically the Twins, had post-season success he probably gets a much closer look.
Saw the other day that he has the highest save percentage of anyone with at least 200 career saves. There are over 50 guys with at least 200 saves.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Kind of strange turn around for Ortiz. He was struggling when he left here, no one claimed him on waivers, Boston came extremely close to cutting him as he wasn't producing at all and then he literally sky rocked. People then started laughing at the Twins etc. Baseball players are hard to gauge at times as to who will excel and who won't. Look at Hicks who ended up with the Yankees and doing pretty good now. Regardless good for Ortiz. He never gave up.
I think he needed a space where he felt comfortable.
 




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