Next Gopher Head Coach

I didn't see the report, and I know you are paraphrasing not quoting, but I bristle at the use of the phrase "counter offers." It suggests that Coyle offered the position to both of them, which is almost certainly incorrect. It is possible that he made an offer to Musselman and a conditional offer to Dutcher ("we'd like to offer you $X over Y years, but only if Musselman turns us down") but that is rarely how negotiations work with high profile people. Far more likely, in my opinion, is that Coyle has reached out to representatives of the top candidates with a suggestion of what terms he'd propose if there is mutual interest and is awaiting responses. Then he can conduct interviews in whatever order he feels appropriate, but only with parties where there is a likley fit on the financial terms.
FYI, I think WCCO has those newscasts on demand, so anyone could check out what his actual wording was. I think it was counteroffer, but I could be mistaken. It may or may not be useful to parse words; who knows how precise that script was.
 

Not to turn this into a thread about the tourney, but I think the Syracuse-San Diego State match up is really interesting. Both are gritty, smart defense-minded coaches. It also shows level of respect for Dutcher and that team, giving 3 to a Syracuse team that's looked good lately. Ditto for Utah Sate-Texas Tech, given the national respect for Chris Beard. Smith is no slouch. There are always upsets and clunker games every year, and who knows this year with players dropping re covid (see Oklahoma). But these two games 'should' be fun to watch. Also points to sometimes putting too much emphasis on conference affiliation. Both San Diego State and Utah State, barring injuries, are rock solid. Can't believe Utah State barely snuck in.
 

FYI, I think WCCO has those newscasts on demand, so anyone could check out what his actual wording was. I think it was counteroffer, but I could be mistaken. It may or may not be useful to parse words; who knows how precise that script was.
Appreciate the response and, either way, my quibble isn't with you. I just get frustrated with the public/media narrative of how these things go. I could easily foresee a circumstance where Musselman stays in Arkansas with a new contract and Dutcher decides to ride things out in San Diego. To a sizeable portion of the public the perception will be that Coyle had to "settle for his third or fourth choice because nobody wanted the job" when in reality neither of them may have ever had a serious interest in the job or been realistic candidates.
 

Assuming that our next coach is coaching in the NCAA tournament, we probably won't get much concrete info until that team is eliminated.
 

Appreciate the response and, either way, my quibble isn't with you. I just get frustrated with the public/media narrative of how these things go. I could easily foresee a circumstance where Musselman stays in Arkansas with a new contract and Dutcher decides to ride things out in San Diego. To a sizeable portion of the public the perception will be that Coyle had to "settle for his third or fourth choice because nobody wanted the job" when in reality neither of them may have ever had a serious interest in the job or been realistic candidates.
Agreed. People think a coach not taking your job is an indictment of some kind. Most people don’t get how recruiting candidates for jobs works period, and most people are not in a position where they get recruited. Just because someone isn’t interested in a job does not mean they don’t find it desirable, they just like where they are at. See that all the time in the real world outside of college athletics.

And, that is why there is so little movement between P5 jobs, and less and less from successful mid-majors. If a coach has things going positively and is happy where they are at, they stay. I’m sure Mark Few sees numerous places he’s been recruited to and could have made more money at as desirable, but he’s happy in Spokane.
 


Appreciate the response and, either way, my quibble isn't with you. I just get frustrated with the public/media narrative of how these things go. I could easily foresee a circumstance where Musselman stays in Arkansas with a new contract and Dutcher decides to ride things out in San Diego. To a sizeable portion of the public the perception will be that Coyle had to "settle for his third or fourth choice because nobody wanted the job" when in reality neither of them may have ever had a serious interest in the job or been realistic candidates.
On one hand, I've been saying that you can't let the newspaper or public perception get in your head. On the other hand, these things are real things and do have to be managed. It's a bit of a delicate balance. At the end of the day, one potential downside of making an overture to a longer-shot possibility is the perception that you struck out and ended up with Plan B or C. BUT...the bottom line is how well your eventual hire does on the job and with public relations.
 

Agreed. People think a coach not taking your job is an indictment of some kind. Most people don’t get how recruiting candidates for jobs works period, and most people are not in a position where they get recruited. Just because someone isn’t interested in a job does not mean they don’t find it desirable, they just like where they are at. See that all the time in the real world outside of college athletics.

On the other hand, whether a desired coach says "I really liked that school and would have liked working there but (Insert name of eventual destination) just had a bit of an edge when it came to what I was looking for" OR "I really didn't have much interest in going there but figured I'd listen anyway as a possible safety school" the end result is the same. The former probably makes you feel better about yourself and your future prospects but both responses leave you empty handed in the present.
 

The Mike Max report was amusing to me.

-- Love how he is loosely throwing around "counter-offers" as if he knows with any certainty that it will even get to that place with Dutcher and Musselman.

-- Provincialism at its finest. I thought it was laughable how his "report" only addressed the candidates with Minnesota ties (with Damon Stoudermire randomly dropped in).

Gates is definitely getting an interview, so I guess I'm not sure how he can offer up a picture without mentioning him?

At the end of this, it will be interesting to see if the local media personalities or people on message boards had better info. Maybe it will be neither and Coyle will shock us with someone who hasn't even been mentioned.
 

The Mike Max report was amusing to me.

-- Love how he is loosely throwing around "counter-offers" as if he knows with any certainty that it will even get to that place with Dutcher and Musselman.

-- Provincialism at its finest. I thought it was laughable how his "report" only addressed the candidates with Minnesota ties (with Damon Stoudermire randomly dropped in).

Gates is definitely getting an interview, so I guess I'm not sure how he can offer up a picture without mentioning him?

At the end of this, it will be interesting to see if the local media personalities or people on message boards had better info. Maybe it will be neither and Coyle will shock us with someone who hasn't even been mentioned.

Larry Suggs?
 




I'd be pretty shocked to see Stoudamire in the mix for this job, but stranger things have happened. If he's being considered, I'd think Coyle would also be looking at Stan Johnson even though Johnson just got his first HC job with LMU. Who knows.
 

The Mike Max report was amusing to me.

-- Love how he is loosely throwing around "counter-offers" as if he knows with any certainty that it will even get to that place with Dutcher and Musselman.

-- Provincialism at its finest. I thought it was laughable how his "report" only addressed the candidates with Minnesota ties (with Damon Stoudermire randomly dropped in).

Gates is definitely getting an interview, so I guess I'm not sure how he can offer up a picture without mentioning him?

At the end of this, it will be interesting to see if the local media personalities or people on message boards had better info. Maybe it will be neither and Coyle will shock us with someone who hasn't even been mentioned.
It was a bit of a strange data point in all this, but filed in the file cabinet that, like I've said, seems to get more curious and confusing with time and not less.
 

Appreciate the response and, either way, my quibble isn't with you. I just get frustrated with the public/media narrative of how these things go. I could easily foresee a circumstance where Musselman stays in Arkansas with a new contract and Dutcher decides to ride things out in San Diego. To a sizeable portion of the public the perception will be that Coyle had to "settle for his third or fourth choice because nobody wanted the job" when in reality neither of them may have ever had a serious interest in the job or been realistic candidates.
I didn't really think of it that way but a great point, and will probably spun that way/viewed that way. I understand Dutcher has the MN buyout clause but I really feel he has a sweet gig at SDSU.
 



It was a bit of a strange data point in all this, but filed in the file cabinet that, like I've said, seems to get more curious and confusing with time and not less.

Appreciate you posting the recap for those of us outside of the state who can't watch/listen to these reports as easily!
 

I don't hate the Sam Mitchell idea. He's got plenty of experience and chops. Can he recruit?
 

At the end of this, it will be interesting to see if the local media personalities or people on message boards had better info. Maybe it will be neither and Coyle will shock us with someone who hasn't even been mentioned.

If I were betting, I'd take the field over anyone of the "mentioned" names.
 

Appreciate you posting the recap for those of us outside of the state who can't watch/listen to these reports as easily!
Glad to do it. I was brushing my teeth and heard him start to throw out those names, and I rushed into the bedroom and was like, what did he say?
 

Appreciate the response and, either way, my quibble isn't with you. I just get frustrated with the public/media narrative of how these things go. I could easily foresee a circumstance where Musselman stays in Arkansas with a new contract and Dutcher decides to ride things out in San Diego. To a sizeable portion of the public the perception will be that Coyle had to "settle for his third or fourth choice because nobody wanted the job" when in reality neither of them may have ever had a serious interest in the job or been realistic candidates.

I don't agree with this at all. One is playing mid major ball, the other in a mediocre conference in a mediocre state.

When guys get blown away with money offers for good programs, they will seriously look at it. Flat out. Especially guys that are competitive.

This is the same thing as the media apologizing for the Twins not getting free agents they want, saying it is because they wanted to live a certain place when our offer was 20% less than the other guy.

The only thing keeping us from getting exactly who we want will be what we pay and who we are. And fans have every right to question the athletic department here if that does indeed happen.

If we have to sink down to another guy way down the list, this will also give the impression that the AD doesn't know what he is doing or can't assess his own university. Don't fire a guy if you are who you are bringing in is a huge crapshoot.
 

The Mike Max report was amusing to me.

-- Love how he is loosely throwing around "counter-offers" as if he knows with any certainty that it will even get to that place with Dutcher and Musselman.

-- Provincialism at its finest. I thought it was laughable how his "report" only addressed the candidates with Minnesota ties (with Damon Stoudermire randomly dropped in).

Gates is definitely getting an interview, so I guess I'm not sure how he can offer up a picture without mentioning him?

At the end of this, it will be interesting to see if the local media personalities or people on message boards had better info. Maybe it will be neither and Coyle will shock us with someone who hasn't even been mentioned.
I don’t think Max is as connected as he once was, and the comment that the search is picking up steam - no kidding!
 

I don't agree with this at all. One is playing mid major ball, the other in a mediocre conference in a mediocre state.

When guys get blown away with money offers for good programs, they will seriously look at it. Flat out. Especially guys that are competitive.

This is the same thing as the media apologizing for the Twins not getting free agents they want, saying it is because they wanted to live a certain place when our offer was 20% less than the other guy.

The only thing keeping us from getting exactly who we want will be what we pay and who we are. And fans have every right to question the athletic department here if that does indeed happen.

If we have to sink down to another guy way down the list, this will also give the impression that the AD doesn't know what he is doing or can't assess his own university. Don't fire a guy if you are who you are bringing in is a huge crapshoot.
This is so dumb. Musselman has a good job and may be really happy and not want to move again. Dutcher could love the situation he is in. Mark Few, for example, has been offered more money at jobs any coach would see desirable, and he stayed in Spokane because he likes what he has going. There are people in all kinds of work, not just basketball coaches, who don’t just jump to new jobs for more money or because it is a perceived better job. If they are happy, feel positively challenged day to day, like the person they report to and the team they work with, and feel compensated well enough they stay in their job. It’s not all about a job paying more money or being more desirable - some people just don’t want to leave. Again, this why you see guys rarely leave a P5 job for another.
 

I don't agree with this at all. One is playing mid major ball, the other in a mediocre conference in a mediocre state.

When guys get blown away with money offers for good programs, they will seriously look at it. Flat out. Especially guys that are competitive.

This is the same thing as the media apologizing for the Twins not getting free agents they want, saying it is because they wanted to live a certain place when our offer was 20% less than the other guy.

The only thing keeping us from getting exactly who we want will be what we pay and who we are. And fans have every right to question the athletic department here if that does indeed happen.

If we have to sink down to another guy way down the list, this will also give the impression that the AD doesn't know what he is doing or can't assess his own university. Don't fire a guy if you are who you are bringing in is a huge crapshoot.
I think there are only two names written at the top of Coyle's list, and they're written in bold and underlined: Dennis Gates and Craig Smith.
 

Im saying its Dutcher! Theres a reason why he has the buyout to minnesota in his contract. Other side of it is that Coyle has to go for the homerun here! May cost you more money, but it will save you in long run. If its dutcher ticket sales will go up immediately. Just my 2 cents. Could be way off!
 

I'd be pretty shocked to see Stoudamire in the mix for this job, but stranger things have happened. If he's being considered, I'd think Coyle would also be looking at Stan Johnson even though Johnson just got his first HC job with LMU. Who knows.
I'd be game for Stan Johnson
 

I can't unsee the misspelling of Aryan Nation, and think of Bruce Arians or Arian Foster instead.

And I agree that comment is absurd.
Or the Arian heresy from the third century still alive and well now.
 


I don't agree with this at all. One is playing mid major ball, the other in a mediocre conference in a mediocre state.

When guys get blown away with money offers for good programs, they will seriously look at it. Flat out. Especially guys that are competitive.

This is the same thing as the media apologizing for the Twins not getting free agents they want, saying it is because they wanted to live a certain place when our offer was 20% less than the other guy.

The only thing keeping us from getting exactly who we want will be what we pay and who we are. And fans have every right to question the athletic department here if that does indeed happen.

If we have to sink down to another guy way down the list, this will also give the impression that the AD doesn't know what he is doing or can't assess his own university. Don't fire a guy if you are who you are bringing in is a huge crapshoot.
Couldn't disagree more. The whole, just throw a bunch of money at someone and they will go, has been disproven over and over again, in business and sports.

Maybe it's more relevant to a mid-major coach to hit the mercenary ladder, but someone like Musselman or Few has already pocketed so much money that they are set for life and it is no longer the determining factor for them in my opinion.

10 or 20 years ago, much different.
 


Im saying its Dutcher! Theres a reason why he has the buyout to minnesota in his contract. Other side of it is that Coyle has to go for the homerun here! May cost you more money, but it will save you in long run. If its dutcher ticket sales will go up immediately. Just my 2 cents. Could be way off!
I’m impressed by your optimism. I’m not sure I agree with Brian increasing ticket sales. His attraction by history is to us old people. People under 40 will have little to no affinity for Brian through history. Maybe through appreciation of his current success but I don’t think the casual fan even knows that. He’ll keep tickets from tanking but probably not increase until success on the floor.
 






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