Wisconsin made a bold move, do we have the nerve to do the same?

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If "better" recruits just won't be persuaded to come to Minneapolis, MN, from some combination of brutal winters, distance, not a historical winning program, and of course under (now over) the table money ........ at some point, wouldn't you have had enough too?

Hey, maybe that's the point when you should move on and hang em up. Just sayin
 

Spoofin said:
I agree Coyle isn’t going to fire PJ. I don’t even think he should. That has its own downside tho - we will continue to get more of the same. I think that is what has some fans down 🤷‍♂️
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Most of those fans being down has nothing to do with the gophers and more to do with their personality

Doom and gloom people are doom and gloom
 

Spoofin said:
I agree Coyle isn’t going to fire PJ. I don’t even think he should. That has its own downside tho - we will continue to get more of the same. I think that is what has some fans down 🤷‍♂️
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The problem is "more of the same" from Fleck is better than what any coach has given us in 50+ years. So, why pull the plug now? Let's see where it takes us.

Interesting, in today's environment of message boards, social media, instant knee jerk reactions, hot take talk show hosts, I wonder if Alavarez would have survived at Wisconsin after years 6-7-8, even though he had a Rose Bowl appearance in his pocket. He won 4 games in Year Six, then eight regular season games in Year Seven and seven regular season wins in Year Eight.

In today's world, they might have run him out because they were just getting "more of the same" and winning seven or eight is more of the same. Guess what happened in Year Nine and in Year Ten? Rose Bowl in both.

I mean we win 11, 9, and maybe 8 in the last three "full" schedule seasons and we are trying to run this guy out of town? I sure wouldn't.

There is no doubt this has turned into a disappointing season. I thought they had a great shot at winning the west. Are there flaws with the head coach? Of course, like all coaches. But, as disappointed as I am at having to acknowledge that, I still wouldn't say we should fire him.
 
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tjgopher said:
The problem is "more of the same" from Fleck is better than what any coach has given us in 50+ years. So, why pull the plug now? Let's see where it takes us.

Interesting, in today's environment of message boards, social media, instant knee jerk reactions, hot take talk show hosts, I wonder if Alavarez would have survived at Wisconsin after years 6-7-8, even though he had a Rose Bowl appearance in his pocket. He won 4 games in Year Six, then eight regular season games in Year Seven and seven regular season wins in Year Eight.

In today's world, they might have run him out because they were just getting "more of the same" and winning seven or eight is more of the same. Guess what happened in Year Nine and in Year Ten? Rose Bowl in both.

I mean we win 11, 9, and maybe 8 in the last three "full" schedule seasons and we are trying to run this guy out of town? I sure wouldn't.

There is no doubt this has turned into a disappointing season. I thought they had a great shot at winning the west. Are there flaws with the head coach? Of course, like all coaches. But, as disappointed as I am at having to acknowledge that, I still wouldn't say we should fire him.
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Very well said.
 



MNfootballfan said:
Don’t disagree, Iowa was in no man’s land but I wouldn’t have posted it if yesterday was an isolated incident. I can’t remember the last time I watched Fleck make calls throughout the game that he is coaching to win the game.
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Fleck went for it on 4th and 1 around their own 29 yard line in the 1st Q against Purdue. A coach doesn't make that sort of call if they're not trying to win. Kramer got stuffed for no gain.

As I recall many wondered WTF he was doing and roasted him for the decision. Coaches are always looking to shake things up and motivate the team. It didn't work against Purdue but they only got 3 points out of it.
 

tjgopher said:
The problem is "more of the same" from Fleck is better than what any coach has given us in 50+ years. So, why pull the plug now? Let's see where it takes us.

Interesting, in today's environment of message boards, social media, instant knee jerk reactions, hot take talk show hosts, I wonder if Alavarez would have survived at Wisconsin after years 6-7-8, even though he had a Rose Bowl appearance in his pocket. He won 4 games in Year Six, then eight regular season games in Year Seven and seven regular season wins in Year Eight.

In today's world, they might have run him out because they were just getting "more of the same" and winning seven or eight is more of the same. Guess what happened in Year Nine and in Year Ten? Rose Bowl in both.

I mean we win 11, 9, and maybe 8 in the last three "full" schedule seasons and we are trying to run this guy out of town? I sure wouldn't.

There is no doubt this has turned into a disappointing season. I thought they had a great shot at winning the west. Are there flaws with the head coach? Of course, like all coaches. But, as disappointed as I am at having to acknowledge that, I still wouldn't say we should fire him.
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Well, for the most point I agree - I'm not calling for PJ's head.... I'm just saying his recruiting has stagnated, his messaging is running its course, and his results are showing that. When I say "more of the same" I mean more seasons where we win 7-8 games. Sounds OK, but we can't always play 7 teams with a losing record 🤷‍♂️
 

Some guy said:
Most of those fans being down has nothing to do with the gophers and more to do with their personality

Doom and gloom people are doom and gloom
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I'll disagree. I think a lot of fans are down because we had an experienced team playing in a weak B1G West and were gifted a very manageable cross over schedule, yet failed to produce anything other than 7 wins against teams that are under .500. Maybe this Saturday will be different?
 

Spoofin said:
I'll disagree. I think a lot of fans are down because we had an experienced team playing in a weak B1G West and were gifted a very manageable cross over schedule, yet failed to produce anything other than 7 wins against teams that are under .500. Maybe this Saturday will be different?
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it won’t be different. Even if the team wins Saturday you’ll be whiny the next time we lose anyways. Which will happen.

It isn’t the team. It’s you.
 



Gophers_4life said:
OK.

So ... why does it work for Wisconsin? Why do they get to do it, but we don't?

Coaches like Madison, Wisconsin, but hate Minneapolis, MN? Makes no sense to me ....
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Since Alvarez, pretty much every Wisconsin coach left on their own accord, aside from Chryst. I guess we'll see how they do.
I am still in the "ride with PJ" camp.
 
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Some guy said:
it won’t be different. Even if the team wins Saturday you’ll be whiny the next time we lose anyways. Which will happen.

It isn’t the team. It’s you.
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Sure thing Bozo.
 




I'm disappointed in PJ for not learning from the past and changing his best. I wonder if his CEO type of leadership has a lower ceiling compared to an Xs and Os type of head coach? The Illinois 2 year turnaround seems pretty remarkable. That said I want PJ to succeed, but he needs to get out of his own way sometimes. ie in-game management.
 

Michigan fans wanted to run Jim Harbaugh out of town due to his record vs. OSU. Would that have been a bold move?

In his 8th year, Harbaugh doesn't have a winning record against their two biggest rivals. Yet somehow, Michigan is the #3 team in the country.
 

Whytetale said:
I'm disappointed in PJ for not learning from the past and changing his best. I wonder if his CEO type of leadership has a lower ceiling compared to an Xs and Os type of head coach? The Illinois 2 year turnaround seems pretty remarkable. That said I want PJ to succeed, but he needs to get out of his own way sometimes. ie in-game management.
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You should call Nick Saban and see if he thinks you can win big without calling either side of the ball


**no I am not calling fleck Nick Saban
 

Whytetale said:
I'm disappointed in PJ for not learning from the past and changing his best. I wonder if his CEO type of leadership has a lower ceiling compared to an Xs and Os type of head coach? The Illinois 2 year turnaround seems pretty remarkable. That said I want PJ to succeed, but he needs to get out of his own way sometimes. ie in-game management.
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I'm not ready to crown Illinois yet. Remember Minnesota 2019?
 

tjgopher said:
The problem is "more of the same" from Fleck is better than what any coach has given us in 50+ years. So, why pull the plug now? Let's see where it takes us.

Interesting, in today's environment of message boards, social media, instant knee jerk reactions, hot take talk show hosts, I wonder if Alavarez would have survived at Wisconsin after years 6-7-8, even though he had a Rose Bowl appearance in his pocket. He won 4 games in Year Six, then eight regular season games in Year Seven and seven regular season wins in Year Eight.

In today's world, they might have run him out because they were just getting "more of the same" and winning seven or eight is more of the same. Guess what happened in Year Nine and in Year Ten? Rose Bowl in both.

I mean we win 11, 9, and maybe 8 in the last three "full" schedule seasons and we are trying to run this guy out of town? I sure wouldn't.

There is no doubt this has turned into a disappointing season. I thought they had a great shot at winning the west. Are there flaws with the head coach? Of course, like all coaches. But, as disappointed as I am at having to acknowledge that, I still wouldn't say we should fire him.
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Nobody of importance is putting pressure on Fleck or making his seat warm.

I notice a trend on this board- on the one hand, you have people that are frustrated we don't have a bigger fan base or that the stadium has empty seats - and on the other, you have people that get frustrated at "hot takes," or passionate responses to underwhelming performances. The reality is that a strong fan base is going to bring spirited responses to games or seasons that are a let down.

I don't want a mild mannered fan base, I want a passionate one. Luckily, level headed shot callers at the U understand that Fleck has earned safety. Beating Wisconsin will def help the average fan.
 

Mr. 131 said:
Nobody of importance is putting pressure on Fleck or making his seat warm.

I notice a trend on this board- on the one hand, you have people that are frustrated we don't have a bigger fan base or that the stadium has empty seats - and on the other, you have people that get frustrated at "hot takes," or passionate responses to underwhelming performances. The reality is that a strong fan base is going to bring spirited responses to games or seasons that are a let down.

I don't want a mild mannered fan base, I want a passionate one. Luckily, level headed shot callers at the U understand that Fleck has earned safety. Beating Wisconsin will def help the average fan.
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There is passionate and then there is ridiculous. Being frustrated, upset, critical, is all understandable. Losing to Iowa sucks, especially when we out played them most of the game….again

but the small group calling for Fleck’s head aren’t being passionate, they are being ridiculous.
 



Some guy said:
You should call Nick Saban and see if he thinks you can win big without calling either side of the ball


**no I am not calling fleck Nick Saban
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Don't have his number. Can you call him for me?
 


Whytetale said:
Don't have his number. Can you call him for me?
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Don’t need to call him. Maybe you’ll figure out what I was saying about your “maybe a CEO coach has a lower ceiling” take
 

Some guy said:
Don’t need to call him. Maybe you’ll figure out what I was saying about your “maybe a CEO coach has a lower ceiling” take
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I guess when PJ recruits like Saban the answer will be more apparent.
 

Whytetale said:
I guess when PJ recruits like Saban the answer will be more apparent.
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You said you wonder if a CEO head coach has a lower ceiling than an Xs and Os guy.
Saban is the model CEO head coach
He is also the greatest coach possibly in college football history.

I was answering your question. Sorry you don’t like the answer. But NO, the ceo model doesn’t have a lower ceiling. You can win national championship both both styles…and we know this because people have.

PJ fleck doesn’t need to recruit better for people to definitively say that if PJ fleck isn’t the answer it isn’t because you have to have a play caller as a head coach
 

I will say this again, Wisconsin firing their HC may be their "Nebraska firing Bo Pelini" moment. Only time will tell, and I would much rather wait and see how it turns out for them before following them into the fire.
 

Some guy said:
You said you wonder if a CEO head coach has a lower ceiling than an Xs and Os guy.
Saban is the model CEO head coach
He is also the greatest coach possibly in college football history.

I was answering your question. Sorry you don’t like the answer. But NO, the ceo model doesn’t have a lower ceiling. You can probably win national championship both both styles.
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Ok, fair enough. And my point is that our CEO needs to be a better CEO.
 

Taji34 said:
I will say this again, Wisconsin firing their HC may be their "Nebraska firing Bo Pelini" moment. Only time will tell, and I would much rather wait and see how it turns out for them before following them into the fire.
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It’s an interesting deal. I don’t have high level contacts but I have low level contacts.

They knew this year was going to be like this a little. They thought they’d lose JL at some point. They wanted to give him a little bit to lead the room and see what it looks like before making a decision.


It’s a big risk IMO
Right now wisconsin is a top 20-25 program and could land a big time coach I would think. If they hire JL and are looking again in 5 years after a bunch of 7, 8, and 9 win seasons they’re barely better than the Mn job. Which is crazy.
If they’re smart they’re doing due diligence on outside hires.
 

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