Wisconsin made a bold move, do we have the nerve to do the same?


Gophers_4life

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You make the call when you know.
Yeah if you’re terrible next year and you know you make the call. What’s the point in talking about that now?


What if we go 6-6 for 23 years in a row? What should we do then.
What if we go 9-3 next year but 3-9 the year after that? What then?
What if we go 7-6 then 85? What then?


I’m thankful the AD is in charge and not some of the chicken littles in this board
No matter what, you don't drag it out for three years when it should've been done the first year.

I'm not calling for any decision to be made until after next year.

I don't think Coyle will have the balls to do it then. That worries me.
 

Some guy

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I won't even try to refute you there. That is what it is
Seriously though.
K state lost to Tulane
Ok state lost a game 48-0 to a 3 loss team
Texas lost to 6-5 Texas tech and has 4 losses
Baylor has 5 losses including to 4-7 west virginia and 6-5 ByU


After watching this college football season the craziest result of the year was maybe Iowa state beating Iowa
 

Some guy

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No matter what, you don't drag it out for three years when it should've been done the first year.

I'm not calling for any decision to be made until after next year.

I don't think Coyle will have the balls to do it then. That worries me.
You don’t think Coyle has the balls to make a move you wouldn’t make?
If you know you will want to do it after next year then why are you not wanting to now?
If you aren’t sure yet then why are you already down on Coyle for not doing something that you also wouldn’t do
 



Gophers_4life

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You don’t think Coyle has the balls to make a move you wouldn’t make?
What I said is very clear.

After next year, if it is indeed a bad season, you do it then. Not three years after that.


Seems crystal clear to me.
 

Gophers_4life

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If you know you will want to do it after next year then why are you not wanting to now?
As everyone agrees: you give him the chance to see if he can pull something off next year.

If he can, then he kept his job. Good luck to him
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Another thing is: Chryst was Bert's guy. Not sure if he was really ever Barry's guy?

I don't know the politics or anything over there, but tough for me to believe Barry doesn't have his fingers in every pot and still an important opinion on every major decision.


My point is -- Fleck is 1000% Coyle's guy. Coyle thinks he's some special finder of diamonds on the beach, when it comes to coaches. Look no further than BJ for proof of that.

Coyle will go down with the ship, to the bitter end.

A rumor was they didn’t want to lose Leonard, so they figured he was their future and this was the time to make the change and elevate him, thus ensuring he stats put.

Whether Leonard can be a good HC, who knows - some coordinators can do it and some can’t.
 




Replacement Gopher

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You have to check their join dates. My thoughts are that we have newer fans who haven't been around long enough to know what a decade in the doldrums feels like.



You know who didn't tolerate the results and ended up being 🤪 Nebraska :ROFLMAO: ?
Nope.
Been on this site since it was Jason Groth. Back when you had to click on every post. Back when oldtimer and Bob-39 were regular posters. That’s longer than some posters here have been alive.
 


Some guy

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What I said is very clear.

After next year, if it is indeed a bad season, you do it then. Not three years after that.


Seems crystal clear to me.
What’s a bad year?
Is this a bad year?
Do you fire him after an average year?
What’s an average year?

You have all this concerns about Coyle not having the balls so tell me what you’re looking for. I might even agree with you.
If it’s crystal clear it will be easy to define



Do you think northwestern should fire Fitzgerald? (For me yes)
Do you think Iowa state should fire Matt Campbell? (For me no)
Do you think ok state should fire Gundy? (For me no)
Should Pitt fire Narduzzi?
(For me no)
Should UCLA fire chip Kelly?
(For me no)
Should Stanford fire David Shaw?
(For me yes)
Should Kentucky fire Stoops?
(For me no)
 

Gophers_4life

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You have all this concerns about Coyle not having the balls so tell me what you’re looking for. I might even agree with you.
If it’s crystal clear it will be easy to define
It somewhat depends on how this year plays out.

I fear we will find a way to lose to Wisconsin next week. We may or may not win a low-mid bowl after that, Mo and maybe Nubin might choose not to play. Maybe JMS? That is a trend in that kind of thing, whatever their agents tell them to do.


Then next year:
- if we fail to be bowl eligible = should be gone

I don't think I can get any more crystal clear than that.


Do you think northwestern should fire Fitzgerald? (For me yes)

Do you think Iowa state should fire Matt Campbell? (For me no)
Do you think ok state should fire Gundy? (For me no)
Should Pitt fire Narduzzi?
(For me no)
Should UCLA fire chip Kelly?
(For me no)
Should Stanford fire David Shaw?
(For me yes)
Should Kentucky fire Stoops?
(For me no)
I don't follow any of these programs anywhere near closely enough to have an opinion.

Our situation and theirs are irrelevant to each other, in each case.
 



Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0

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Here's what I'm worried about:

TCU and Gary Patterson. (You all remember Kill's best man, right??)


2014 they have an incredible year 11-1, finish ranked #5 in the (first ever) final CFP rankings. Win a NY6 bowl to ultimately finish 12-1. Had a couple very good years after that, as well.

But Patterson was fired after last year after 8 games.

Q8yHRXW.png




They hire a new coach this year -- BOOM -- sitting at 11-0.



Point is simply: they waited wayyyyy too long, excrutiatingly too long, to fire Patterson.


Is that how it's going to end up with Fleck???
The Big 12 is easily the weakest Power 5 conference and has been for quite a few years.
 

CentralGopher

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People responded similarly when we said the same thing about Glen Mason, Mrs. Fleck.

Besides, you didn’t answer the question: do you think Iowa or Wisconsin would tolerate the same results? Writer Gopher, not Reading Comprehension Gopher.
People called for Mason to be fired because he never attempted to recruit better and it was clear we had reached the ceiling with him. That isn’t the case currently. Mason was making zero attempt to improve the program. That isn’t the case currently.
 

disco

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I'd be shocked if TCU didn't have a bigger NIL base to pay players.
 

Some guy

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I don't follow any of these programs anywhere near closely enough to have an opinion.

Our situation and theirs are irrelevant to each other, in each case.

See to me this hurts your credibility as an evaluator. You don’t follow other college football programs in their efforts to build a program? So what do you use as a point of reference for this program?
Is every program just the same?


You think 5-7 gone? 6-6 back?
I think there is a lot more nuance than that. There are probably some 6-6s where we should think about letting him go and some 5-7s he should definitely be back.
 

Gophers_4life

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Mason was making zero attempt to improve the program. That isn’t the case currently.
This is an interesting thing to say.


It's hard for me to accept that any staff is actively not trying to make it better/do better. Certainly, the results may not hold.

Why do you think Mason was not trying, and why do you think Fleck is trying?


All the BS Fleck spouts with his slogans and culture, does not equate to "trying" for me.
 

Gophers_4life

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I'd be shocked if TCU didn't have a bigger NIL base to pay players.
Rich Texan Christians??

Sonny Dykes gets six years and "close to" $30M. We don't pay Fleck that much but don't think we're that far off?
 

Gophers_4life

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See to me this hurts your credibility as an evaluator. You don’t follow other college football programs in their efforts to build a program? So what do you use as a point of reference for this program?
Is every program just the same?


You think 5-7 gone? 6-6 back?
I think there is a lot more nuance than that. There are probably some 6-6s where we should think about letting him go and some 5-7s he should definitely be back.
Why should it matter a single iota what programs that aren't the Gophers do, when I'm only commenting on what the Gophers do?

Seems like an arbitrary thing you concocted there.


There probably is more nuance ... but the nuance will come into effect if we do get bowl eligible. Also, like said, how this year finishes out.


If we lose to Wisconsin this year, and we don't get bowl eligible next year -- GONE. That's a redline for me.

Sure, if they go 5-7 but blow out Wisc and Iowa by 50 points each, we can talk. How likely is that?



As was pointed out in a different thread. Our situation next year could in fact be very similar to Iowa's situation this year. Schedule similar.
 

Some guy

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Why should it matter a single iota what programs that aren't the Gophers do, when I'm only commenting on what the Gophers do?

Seems like an arbitrary thing you concocted there.


There probably is more nuance ... but the nuance will come into effect if we do get bowl eligible. Also, like said, how this year finishes out.


If we lose to Wisconsin this year, and we don't get bowl eligible next year -- GONE. That's a redline for me.

Sure, if they go 5-7 but blow out Wisc and Iowa by 50 points each, we can talk. How likely is that?



As was pointed out in a different thread. Our situation next year could in fact be very similar to Iowa's situation this year. Schedule similar.
Arbitrary thing? The context of the season and the program is arbitrary?

I’m not sure you know what arbitrary means
 

Gophers_4life

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Huh?

I don't need to know a single thing about firing Pitt coach to have a reasonable opinion on if Gophers should fire their coach.

You don't have a leg to stand on, there. I will bow out and agree to disagree with you.
 

MNfootballfan

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Check field position on those three plays
Don’t disagree, Iowa was in no man’s land but I wouldn’t have posted it if yesterday was an isolated incident. I can’t remember the last time I watched Fleck make calls throughout the game that he is coaching to win the game.
 

stocker08

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Nope.
Been on this site since it was Jason Groth. Back when you had to click on every post. Back when oldtimer and Bob-39 were regular posters. That’s longer than some posters here have been alive.

Well I wasn't referring directly to you.
 


Live in the now

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Wisconsin literally did say the same thing when they didn’t fire Alvarez for having 3 5 loss seasons in between his first 10 win season and his second.
They also didn’t fire Alvarez for going 13-19 in conference from 2000-2003
Excellent point. Wisconsin has had lots of success but they have had some bumps in the road also. They have a massive following and are the only game in town in a pretty big city. They put a ton of money in that program.
 

Some guy

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Excellent point. Wisconsin has had lots of success but they have had some bumps in the road also. They have a massive following and are the only game in town in a pretty big city. They put a ton of money in that program.
And they typically have consistency because they’re not knee jerk.
They better get the next year right or they could fall back to the pack

Same with Iowa. Imagine if they changed everything after 5 weeks like the mob wanted
 

tjgopher

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Simple question. Do you think Iowa or Wisconsin would tolerate the same results.

Well, Ferentz lost 8 of the last 10 to Wisconsin and 5 of 6 (the only win coming in the COVID year when Wisconsin had no players healthy and nearly cancelled the game).

Guess who coached Iowa to a win over Wisconsin last week?

Kirk Ferentz.

So, yeah, Iowa would tolerate it, it seems.

Anyone who bases hiring or firing a coach on one rivalry series is not thinking clearly, frankly.

If other things accumulate in addition to a rivalry series, then so be it.
 

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And they typically have consistency because they’re not knee jerk.
They better get the next year right or they could fall back to the pack

Same with Iowa. Imagine if they changed everything after 5 weeks like the mob wanted
Great points. I 100 percent think they let pc go because they wanted to lock down jimmy long term. If they don’t make jimmy the head coach I’ll be shocked. I think the programs with true long term success aren’t switching coaches all the time.
 

Some guy

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Great points. I 100 percent think they let pc go because they wanted to lock down jimmy long term. If they don’t make jimmy the head coach I’ll be shocked. I think the programs with true long term success aren’t switching coaches all the time.
Not very many programs can.
Baylor
LSU a little?
 




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