We need Royce

[Foggie14]

Please everyone Royce White is not the end-all be-all, he is not the savior of this team, and I think Mbakwe will be playing before White will, which IMO will help alot with his rebounding. We DO have a good team, we just had a poor shooting night, that happens.

And why do people put down Gopher fans from other states? Who cares where they live, I'm sure there are people who grew up in Minnesota and moved away for school, jobs or other reasons, it does not make them less of a fan than someone who lives in Minnesota (which I do)

 

[Mikie S]

You call yourself a fan and take a cheapshot at Royce. I know you wouldn't say boo to his face--you keyboard coward.

You seem to be a one-trick-pony with your posts. ALL of them concern getting White (not Mbakwe, not Bostick, just White) back on the court.

White could be out there helping the Gophers, but entirely through his own actions he's not. It's not Tubby's fault. It's not Maturi's fault. IT'S WHITE'S OWN FAULT!

 

[MRJ]

Royce is neither a great free throw shooter or a three point specialist. We will need him eventually, but his absence was not why we lost.

This is where I came out as well. There is no reason to assume Royce was going to save us. After all, every guy on our team pretty much stunk last night. No basis to believe he would have been the exception.

 

[jovs]

Trevor or Royce would have been helpfull. They would have a better inside game with either of them. That is why they were recruited. They are not playing so why be concerned about it. There is plenty of talent on this team to be successfull without them.

 

[CaliforniaGopher]

I'm just pointing out that we won't be significantly better than last year without Royce. Losing to Portland shows how bad we can be. With Royce we wouldn't lose to a bunch of unathletic white guys who weren't recruited by any decent school.

 

[Section201]

Admin

I'm just pointing out that we won't be significantly better than last year without Royce. Losing to Portland shows how bad we can be. With Royce we wouldn't lose to a bunch of unathletic white guys who weren't recruited by any decent school.

Admin, clean up on aisle 3.

Can we get rid of this troll? Please.

 

[CaliforniaGopher]

LOL at Section 201 who can't take anyone who disagrees with him. Portland was a horrible loss even if you disagree 20 times.

 

[MRJ]

LOL at Section 201 who can't take anyone who disagrees with him. Portland was a horrible loss even if you disagree 20 times.

No one is suggesting it wasn't a bad loss. But even a bad loss doesn't provide the basis to absolve Royce of the stupid stuff he's done and say "well, we played a bad game and lost so all is forgiven. Welcome back!!!" If anybody should be blamed for this scenario, it should be Royce White.

 

[Blizzard]

As far as Royce and Trevor go, we do all know that even if they came back soon, which in at least Trevor's case, probably won't be until around January, when his next court date is, it will take time for him to get used to Big Ten play. Same with Royce except even more so as he's never played a minute against major conference teams.

 

[Section201]

whoooaaa

No one is suggesting it wasn't a bad loss. But even a bad loss doesn't provide the basis to absolve Royce of the stupid stuff he's done and say "well, we played a bad game and lost so all is forgiven. Welcome back!!!" If anybody should be blamed for this scenario, it should be Royce White.

Wait a minute please. I AM suggesting it wasnt a BAD loss. Yes, we played a bad game, shooting horribly etc, etc, etc. I believe by next March this Portland game will NOT be viewed as a BAD loss.

A BAD loss would be losing to Brown at the barn!

 

[CaliforniaGopher]

As far as I know Royce hasn't been found guilty yet of anything more serious than disorderly conduct. Its my understanding that Joel or Tubby can reinstate Royce. Royce has already paid a price for things he is accused of (not convicted of). If Maturi and Tubby want to take the high road and kick Royce off team that's their prerogative--but they'd have to kick Trevor off too since his charges are more serious.

But whatever you think of Royce as a person, you must admit we haven't had a 5 Star Player in a long time (maybe since Kris Humphries?) and we shouldnt' be too quick to condemn one of these rare gifts.

 

[XMan]

We Lost. We played poorly in many many ways. Against a team that we should have beat.

OK.....despite our worst shooting performance in years. Despite not being able to hit free throws. Despite missing three players (two who would have made a huge difference).....we still could have tied the game on Hoff's three.

I tire of the posters who say we are going to the final four when we win a big game and also the posters who say we won't even make the NIT when we lose a game that we should have won.

 

[Dice]

Royce had nothing to do with that loss. Portland is a very good team and for a "3-point based" team, they slashed to the basket for high percentage shots. We need less Damien and Ralph taking 20 foot jumpers and more driving to the hoop. Don't think Royce would have helped much in the free throw shooting department anyway.

 

[Mikie S]

As far as I know Royce hasn't been found guilty yet of anything more serious than disorderly conduct. Its my understanding that Joel or Tubby can reinstate Royce. Royce has already paid a price for things he is accused of (not convicted of). If Maturi and Tubby want to take the high road and kick Royce off team that's their prerogative--but they'd have to kick Trevor off too since his charges are more serious.

But whatever you think of Royce as a person, you must admit we haven't had a 5 Star Player in a long time (maybe since Kris Humphries?) and we shouldnt' be too quick to condemn one of these rare gifts.

Once again you seem willing, even anxious, to throw Mbakwe under the bus and excuse White. But you can take all the bad plays that the Gophers have made all year and they still don't add up to the bad play White made at the MOA.

 

[maxwellsmart]

I didn't miss it, California and agree others should perhaps go back and re-read your original post here. Pretty plain that you put the responsibility on White, which is where it belongs.

 

[Rick Mons]

As far as I know Royce hasn't been found guilty yet of anything more serious than disorderly conduct. Its my understanding that Joel or Tubby can reinstate Royce. Royce has already paid a price for things he is accused of (not convicted of). If Maturi and Tubby want to take the high road and kick Royce off team that's their prerogative--but they'd have to kick Trevor off too since his charges are more serious.

Maybe a foreign concept, but there's the context to consider as well. White had issues before being offered a scholarship and I'm sure that there was discussion of what the expectations were for future conduct. White was reportedly transferred from one dorm to another due to behavioral issues. And then White is charged with shoplifting and assault.

You keep trying to make the connection that Mbakwe should suffer the same consequences as White. Mbakwe's charges are based upon "she said/he said" and eyewitness testimony as to where Mbakwe was and when he left Florida. The facts are in dispute.

The facts of the shoplifting are not, to our knowledge, in dispute. And while I know you minimize the assault charge and others have laid out all sorts of creative explanations as to why it's justified, there's no dispute over whether the guard(s) were shoved and fell to the ground.

But whatever you think of Royce as a person, you must admit we haven't had a 5 Star Player in a long time (maybe since Kris Humphries?) and we shouldnt' be too quick to condemn one of these rare gifts.

Minimizing those series of behaviors because he's a "rare gift" puts the noxious spin of "win, baby, win" when making these decisions.

Monson found out that the price of having a 5-star in his locker room was too high for the health of the team's chemistry when Humphries was here. I'd have hoped that real fans would recognize that danger as well.

 

[CaliforniaGopher]

Once again you seem willing, even anxious, to throw Mbakwe under the bus and excuse White. But you can take all the bad plays that the Gophers have made all year and they still don't add up to the bad play White made at the MOA.

Wow, you totally misstate what I've said. If we want to be a much better basketball team than last year we need Royce. You seem to want to take cheapshots at Royce, our only 5 star recruit in many years, and you call yourself a fan.

 

[CaliforniaGopher]

Maybe a foreign concept, but there's the context to consider as well. White had issues before being offered a scholarship and I'm sure that there was discussion of what the expectations were for future conduct. White was reportedly transferred from one dorm to another due to behavioral issues. And then White is charged with shoplifting and assault.

You keep trying to make the connection that Mbakwe should suffer the same consequences as White. Mbakwe's charges are based upon "she said/he said" and eyewitness testimony as to where Mbakwe was and when he left Florida. The facts are in dispute.

The facts of the shoplifting are not, to our knowledge, in dispute. And while I know you minimize the assault charge and others have laid out all sorts of creative explanations as to why it's justified, there's no dispute over whether the guard(s) were shoved and fell to the ground.

Minimizing those series of behaviors because he's a "rare gift" puts the noxious spin of "win, baby, win" when making these decisions.

Monson found out that the price of having a 5-star in his locker room was too high for the health of the team's chemistry when Humphries was here. I'd have hoped that real fans would recognize that danger as well.

You are prejudging Royce based on your own prejudices. You are also wrong to say that the facts are not in dispute. Royce plead innocent to the charges and so the facts are disputed. I won't condemn him but you want to based on your own biases, rumors, hearsay and other inadmisable evidence.

Great! Way to be a Fan. Not!!!

 

[Rick Mons]

You are prejudging Royce based on your own prejudices. You are also wrong to say that the facts are not in dispute. Royce plead innocent to the charges and so the facts are disputed. I won't condemn him but you want to based on your own biases, rumors, hearsay and other inadmisable evidence.

Great! Way to be a Fan. Not!!!

No, CF, he plead "not guilty." And he has to enter a plea of either "guilty" or "not guilty" ... I'll stand by my earlier assertion that the facts are not in dispute and you can hold onto your vision of reality (which seems largely to be based on "we need our 5-star Royce").

But I stand in awe at your superior sense of fan-dom. Anyone who disagrees with you is "not a fan" -- more of that California logic, I guess. Please continue to elucidate who the real fans are and the criteria for such distinction. So far, here's what I've got:

• Must agree with California Gopher on all things
• Must not disagree with California Gopher on anything
• Must let every 5-star player play 'cause we really, really need him

 

[CaliforniaGopher]

No, CF, he plead "not guilty." And he has to enter a plea of either "guilty" or "not guilty" ... I'll stand by my earlier assertion that the facts are not in dispute and you can hold onto your vision of reality (which seems largely to be based on "we need our 5-star Royce").

But I stand in awe at your superior sense of fan-dom. Anyone who disagrees with you is "not a fan" -- more of that California logic, I guess. Please continue to elucidate who the real fans are and the criteria for such distinction. So far, here's what I've got:

• Must agree with California Gopher on all things
• Must not disagree with California Gopher on anything
• Must let every 5-star player play 'cause we really, really need him

He plead not guilty and that means the facts are in dispute. I guess you don't believe in our legal system as you prefer to believe in rumors, hearsay and project your biases into the situation. I guess because Royce White is a black inner city kid who you have heard had past behavior problems, so you assume he did whatever he is charged with.

 

[Dice]

Everyone is a little to quick to back the accused because of the value that they have to our basketball team. We need to keep these players suspended until the legal process has run its course. Its easy to think short-term and freak out over a loss, but the integrity of the team should come first. I also think that implying someone is a racist is uncalled for, and since when is going to Hopkins considered "inner city"?

 

[Mikie S]

Wow, you totally misstate what I've said. If we want to be a much better basketball team than last year we need Royce. You seem to want to take cheapshots at Royce, our only 5 star recruit in many years, and you call yourself a fan.

How many different posters, on just this thread alone, have you accused of taking cheapshots at White?

I'm beginning to suspect where you're coming from though. I'll even take a (cheap) shot at saying there's a good chance you are one of the guys that has been previously called "a bad influence" on White. I'm guessing that not only do you know White personally, but could have been present at either the MOA incident or the dorm/laptop fiasco.

And if you do know White personally, I'd suggest you stop feeding his ego with this line of BS about how he deserves to play simply because hes a "5-star recruit". Because right now White needs a lot of tough love.

 

[goldygo4]

Yes, we need Royce, Mbakwe, and Bostick out there. Maybe this loss will knock some sense into Maturi and get these kids back out there, ASAP.

Yes it's Maturi's fault for keeping a player accused of felony battery, another who robbed a Macy's and assaulted a security guard, and a player who broke team rules. Maturi should be fired for the way he has handled the mess these players got themselves into

 

[Dice]

Seriously, I happen to think Maturi is doing a flawless job at the moment

 

[Rick Mons]

He plead not guilty and that means the facts are in dispute. I guess you don't believe in our legal system as you prefer to believe in rumors, hearsay and project your biases into the situation.

Good lord ... your "guesses" are as bad as your logic. First, my wife is a Public Defender, manages a trial team of 8+ attorneys and has been in that office for over 30 years. For several of those years, I was also in that office. So I'll put my beliefs in our legal system against yours any day of the week.

The charges against White aren't "rumors or hearsay" -- they're allegations. If Maturi and Tubby had removed White from school or pulled his scholarship, I'd be in total agreement that the action was unwarranted. But suspending him from the team until there's a court disposition is fair and reasonable given the context of his behavior.

Finally, you're conflating the legal system with public opinion. My experience is that allegations about shoplifting (such as those made against White) are pretty damning. My opinion is that he stole the goods. Since I'm not about to be called to sit on a jury, there's no legal prohibition against expressing that opinion. There's no legal obligation to suspend holding an opinion. You're taking one principle and erroneously expanding it to a broader application. (Much like those who complain about their "freedom of speech" when a post on here gets deleted.)

I guess because Royce White is a black inner city kid who you have heard had past behavior problems, so you assume he did whatever he is charged with.

Yes, I'm well known on this board for harboring racist, anti-black sentiments.

Just ask The Loon™ (oh, that's right, you're new to the board.)

But I'm so racist that I coordinate our church's shelter for homeless families (over 3-4ths of whom are people of color), personally sponsor meals for the homeless (over 50% of the guests are people of color) and have run seminars for the local Council of Churches on racism. It's all a cover for my deep racist beliefs.

You played the race card on the wrong guy, sonny.

 

[MRJ]

Wait a minute please. I AM suggesting it wasnt a BAD loss. Yes, we played a bad game, shooting horribly etc, etc, etc. I believe by next March this Portland game will NOT be viewed as a BAD loss.

A BAD loss would be losing to Brown at the barn!

This post wasn't meant for you. Sorry about the confusion. My only point is that one bad game doesn't all of the sudden mean Royce's suspension should be lifted. That's all.

 

[CaliforniaGopher]

Everyone is a little to quick to back the accused because of the value that they have to our basketball team. We need to keep these players suspended until the legal process has run its course. Its easy to think short-term and freak out over a loss, but the integrity of the team should come first. I also think that implying someone is a racist is uncalled for, and since when is going to Hopkins considered "inner city"?

You are defending a guy who slams someone because he lives in Kentucky, slams someone because he lives in California and then prejudges Royce because he assumes Royce did what he was charged with and keeps saying the facts aren't in dispute when they are. He is showing extreme prejudice and if you want to call him the "r" word, go ahead. I'm trying to just talk basketball but others keep taking mean spirited shots at Royce and I'm really disappointed in some of my fellow Gopher fans.

 

[CaliforniaGopher]

How many different posters, on just this thread alone, have you accused of taking cheapshots at White?

I'm beginning to suspect where you're coming from though. I'll even take a (cheap) shot at saying there's a good chance you are one of the guys that has been previously called "a bad influence" on White. I'm guessing that not only do you know White personally, but could have been present at either the MOA incident or the dorm/laptop fiasco.

And if you do know White personally, I'd suggest you stop feeding his ego with this line of BS about how he deserves to play simply because hes a "5-star recruit". Because right now White needs a lot of tough love.

LOL. Thats totally random. I live in California and have never met Royce.

 

[CaliforniaGopher]

Good lord ... your "guesses" are as bad as your logic. First, my wife is a Public Defender, manages a trial team of 8+ attorneys and has been in that office for over 30 years. For several of those years, I was also in that office. So I'll put my beliefs in our legal system against yours any day of the week.

The charges against White aren't "rumors or hearsay" -- they're allegations. If Maturi and Tubby had removed White from school or pulled his scholarship, I'd be in total agreement that the action was unwarranted. But suspending him from the team until there's a court disposition is fair and reasonable given the context of his behavior.

Finally, you're conflating the legal system with public opinion. My experience is that allegations about shoplifting (such as those made against White) are pretty damning. My opinion is that he stole the goods. Since I'm not about to be called to sit on a jury, there's no legal prohibition against expressing that opinion. There's no legal obligation to suspend holding an opinion. You're taking one principle and erroneously expanding it to a broader application. (Much like those who complain about their "freedom of speech" when a post on here gets deleted.)

Yes, I'm well known on this board for harboring racist, anti-black sentiments.

Just ask The Loon™ (oh, that's right, you're new to the board.)

But I'm so racist that I coordinate our church's shelter for homeless families (over 3-4ths of whom are people of color), personally sponsor meals for the homeless (over 50% of the guests are people of color) and have run seminars for the local Council of Churches on racism. It's all a cover for my deep racist beliefs.

You played the race card on the wrong guy, sonny.

Why do you tell me that your wife is a public defender, is that suppose to impress me?? I am an attorney and many of my friends are attorneys, so what?? I prefer to engage in basketball discussions, but whenever Royce's name gets mentioned we start seeing mean spirited jabs at Royce and its sickening. I for one think the man deserves more respect from his home team's so called fans.

 

[Section201]

MRJ

This post wasn't meant for you. Sorry about the confusion. My only point is that one bad game doesn't all of the sudden mean Royce's suspension should be lifted. That's all.

No problem, MRJ. I agree with you re: one bad game and RW.