WCCO Football Story

Donate To GopherHole


GoldGoldGold said:
And many medical retirements are due to other health issues like a heart murmur or cancer or other health related issues completely unrelated to the actual game of football. Many of these conditions are discovered during physicals and in some cases have saved the life of the person involved. This is being missed or completely ignored by TOOLS like the Stahl character and of course missed by WCCO.... (which by the way I haven't watched for at least five years and now know I won't be back watching them anytime soon!)
Click to expand...
We all remembered Gary Tinsely dying of an enlarged heart in 2012. I think shortly after his death, the U began screening for heart conditions. In 2015, basketball player Jarvis Johnson was declared medically unable to play after heart screening discovered he had a heart disease that could kill him. The first famous case of a player dying with a heart condition was Loyola Marymount basketball player Hank Gathers. In 1990, he collapsed and died on the court during a West Coast Conference Tournament.

So yes, there are attritions in college athletics due to pre-existing grave conditions.
 

hungan1 said:
We all remembered Gary Tinsely dying of an enlarged heart in 2012. I think shortly after his death, the U began screening for heart conditions. In 2015, basketball player Jarvis Johnson was declared medically unable to play after heart screening discovered he had a heart disease that could kill him. The first famous case of a player dying with a heart condition was Loyola Marymount basketball player Hank Gathers. In 1990, he collapsed and died on the court during a West Coast Conference Tournament.

So yes, there are attritions in college athletics due to pre-existing grave conditions.
Click to expand...
My larger concern about medical retirement ... I worry about stigmatizing a school that in fact does have a lot of medical retirements.

Pr-existing conditions, bad luck? Taking non traditional football players? Any of those can play a part.

Medical retirement is there to protect these guys, doing it is not necessarily a negative. They're not necessarily broken people. Most are just avoiding more serious injuries and keep their scholarship and move on with a healthy life just like they would have otherwise when their eligibility ran out.

That's not bad.... stigmatize those and you might encourage teams to NOT medically retire players to avoid how it looks. That would be bad.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
Ummm burgers?

Anyone ever have breakfast hamburgers? with a fried egg on top between the buns
Click to expand...
You are killing me. I love that stuff, but just can't have much of it. I'd prefer it for lunch.

If you want to go to a really good breakfast place on account of Josh Stahl, try Junior's Cafe & Grill in Eagan. I rate it 5 Stars!
 


SanDiegoGopherFan said:
Ummm burgers?

Anyone ever have breakfast hamburgers? with a fried egg on top between the buns
Click to expand...
Applebee's has a burger with an egg on it. Good burger (for Applebee's)

Also, The Muddy Chicken has a sandwich called the What Came First, that obviously has an egg on it. That is my go to there.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
My larger concern about medical retirement ... I worry about stigmatizing a school that in fact does have a lot of medical retirements.

Pr-existing conditions, bad luck? Taking non traditional football players? Any of those can play a part.

Medical retirement is there to protect these guys, doing it is not necessarily a negative. They're not necessarily broken people. Most are just avoiding more serious injuries and keep their scholarship and move on with a healthy life just like they would have otherwise when their eligibility ran out.

That's not bad.... stigmatize those and you might encourage teams to NOT medically retire players to avoid how it looks. That would be bad.
Click to expand...
This is OT, but it is good conversation.

I think the U is more open on retirements and attrition. I don't think there is stigma. You probably won't hear so much from the SEC. Some of those programs simply just cut players outright because they can, and no one cares to stop them. They have an abundance of talent in the region.
 
Last edited:

I'm not one to sound the alarm bells on PJ leaving at every opportunity, but could anyone really blame someone for not wanting to coach or play here when you not only have to battle against Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc., but your own local media and fans on top of all of that? I love gopher sports more than anything in town but our university and media is such an embarrassment sometimes.
 

Gophers1992 said:
I'm not one to sound the alarm bells on PJ leaving at every opportunity, but could anyone really blame someone for not wanting to coach or play here when you not only have to battle against Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc., but your own local media and fans on top of all of that? I love gopher sports more than anything in town but our university and media is such an embarrassment sometimes.
Click to expand...
Eh.... can't take the heat.

Maybe you don't get the SAME heat but you take another high profile job... you're gonna get shit none the less. Maybe not the same, but there's plenty of hassle.

Neb locals might not write that article, but if you don't become world beaters your AD is gonna talk about your minimum wins and how the results so far are not what they want and the news will be full of that stuff.
 



A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Eh.... can't take the heat.

Maybe you don't get the SAME heat but you take another high profile job... you're gonna get shit none the less. Maybe not the same, but there's plenty of hassle.

Neb locals might not write that article, but if you don't become world beaters your AD is gonna talk about your minimum wins and how the results so far are not what they want and the news will be full of that stuff.
Click to expand...
That's a fair point, and again I'm not trying to suggest that this will drive coaches out, but at least at the Nebraska's of the world they will throw all the resources and support behind you (as long as results keep coming in), where it seems like an uphill battle here.

You're absolutely right though that we offer more reasonable expectations as a fan base and won't fire someone the first time they go 5-7.
 







Bob_Loblaw said:
You can.
Click to expand...
Honest question, would you call someone who has a lingering hamstring issue or ankle issue fragile? Something that affects their athletic performance even though they are doing all they are able to to resolve the issue?
 

Redbeard said:
Can we stop with referring to people who have mental health struggles as "fragile?" Thanks.
Click to expand...
Excellent post. Our society has changed over the years as to comments that are clearly not in the best interest of describing people. Its getting much worse.
 

denguegopher said:
Some things about this story that don't sit just right. 1. The tackle on Edmunds looked like a nice form tackle to me. Not a dirty hit but one that was probably not necessary in that practice situation. If they had been running the Oklahoma drill for hours on end, that would be another story. Also, some guys always play harder than necessary in those type of drills. I had a student who was once on the Miami Dolphins practice squad and Zack Thomas apparently took frequently and unnecessary shots at him. This looked like an unnecessary hit, but it was not vicious IMHO; 2. I could not tell from what I've read about Stahl, but my guess is that he was not a tenure track faculty member. My guess is that he is adjunct faculty or a part-time instructor. If he were I would think that there would be a faculty uproar about a person's position being eliminated for this type of reason; he is also writing a book about this issue https://forgeorganizing.org/author/jason-stahl this might serve as some pretty good advertising. 3. Not sure what to make of the player and coach turnover rates. To his credit I recall that Hayden Fry had very little turnout of either. Go Gophers!
Click to expand...
What is a practice All-American?
 

Taji34 said:
Honest question, would you call someone who has a lingering hamstring issue or ankle issue fragile? Something that affects their athletic performance even though they are doing all they are able to to resolve the issue?
Click to expand...
Not if it only happened once, no. But I could see it being used by someone who had a lot of injuries. My point wasn't even that I used the term "fragile", I just don't think the way Hungan used it was an insult. It was a post where he was talking honestly and compassionately about mental health and his use of the word "fragile" is what struck a nerve with someone? That's choosing style over substance.

But no, I wouldn't call someone who had a lingering hamstring injury as fragile. However, I might call someone who is super injury prone fragile. I'm certainly more fragile now than I was 10 years ago.
 

Gophers1992 said:
I'm not one to sound the alarm bells on PJ leaving at every opportunity, but could anyone really blame someone for not wanting to coach or play here when you not only have to battle against Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc., but your own local media and fans on top of all of that? I love gopher sports more than anything in town but our university and media is such an embarrassment sometimes.
Click to expand...

If any other local news outlet picked up the story, maybe I'd be a little worried.

That never happened, they put the story out there and all you heard was a thud. (wasn't even a bleep)

When local sports writers come to your defense, I think PJ would like that.

CCO really screwed the pooch on this one. I think they pay for it come football season
 

hungan1 said:
You are killing me. I love that stuff, but just can't have much of it. I'd prefer it for lunch.

If you want to go to a really good breakfast place on account of Josh Stahl, try Junior's Cafe & Grill in Eagan. I rate it 5 Stars!
Click to expand...

I just ate then read this, now im hungry again.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Not if it only happened once, no. But I could see it being used by someone who had a lot of injuries. My point wasn't even that I used the term "fragile", I just don't think the way Hungan used it was an insult. It was a post where he was talking honestly and compassionately about mental health and his use of the word "fragile" is what struck a nerve with someone? That's choosing style over substance.

But no, I wouldn't call someone who had a lingering hamstring injury as fragile. However, I might call someone who is super injury prone fragile. I'm certainly more fragile now than I was 10 years ago.
Click to expand...
I see what you're saying, and also I do think there is a larger, cultural perception behind the use of "fragile" as an inherently negative descriptor that should be considered. Very much falling in the Intent vs Impact discussion. Especially on the internet, you don't know who will read something, how they will interpret it, what context they will see it in, etc.

Then again, this is something not everyone shares the same opinions on. I am firmly in the camp that it is a personal responsibility to be aware of the potential negative impact of my words and actions, and make sure that they will truly have the impact I intend and not some other impact.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Not if it only happened once, no. But I could see it being used by someone who had a lot of injuries. My point wasn't even that I used the term "fragile", I just don't think the way Hungan used it was an insult. It was a post where he was talking honestly and compassionately about mental health and his use of the word "fragile" is what struck a nerve with someone? That's choosing style over substance.

But no, I wouldn't call someone who had a lingering hamstring injury as fragile. However, I might call someone who is super injury prone fragile. I'm certainly more fragile now than I was 10 years ago.
Click to expand...
Is Byron Buxton fragile? I'd say yes... (I know, wrong sport AND level of competition but when speaking of fragile, to me, he comes to mind)!
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
If any other local news outlet picked up the story, maybe I'd be a little worried.

That never happened, they put the story out there and all you heard was a thud. (wasn't even a bleep)

When local sports writers come to your defense, I think PJ would like that.

CCO really screwed the pooch on this one. I think they pay for it come football season
Click to expand...
Not sure if CCO will pay this fall. Will take time to get over the burn. Wouldn't doubt if Max reaches out to Fleck in a weird, different way trying to defuse the situation so he doesn't get in trouble with his employer. No doubt though trust has been broken for a while.
 

#2Gopher said:
Not sure if CCO will pay this fall. Will take time to get over the burn. Wouldn't doubt if Max reaches out to Fleck in a weird, different way trying to defuse the situation so he doesn't get in trouble with his employer. No doubt though trust has been broken for a while.
Click to expand...

yeah, pay comes across as a strong word, but however media access and exclusive interviews work, my guess is cco would be at the bottom now
 

On the mental health thing - football is a 'macho' sport. for a big, tough football player to admit to having depression or mental health issues was unthinkable until very recently.

In general, I think attitudes are changing - but team sports may be a little slower to accept and acknowledge the trend.

but coaches - including Fleck - are talking more openly about dealing with athletes on a holistic basis - including mental health and well-being.

so I would say that "fragile" is probably not the best word choice for that situation. especially when you consider that "fragile" player could probably break you in half with one hand...........
 

There's an old saying about not getting into fights with a newspaper, since they buy ink by the barrel. I think it's the same with broadcast media, don't get into a fight with them as they have a lock on all the air time. I don't think WCCO will suffer much and it was not the sports department that did the story.

Go back to the old I-Team report Shelby did on Northwest Airlines years ago. None of them suffered greatly when all was said and done, even though WCCO had to admit they had the story wrong.
 

Hate to return to the subject of medical retirement, but I think it can cover a range of situations from true career-ending injury to a fully recoverable injury coupled with a depth chart slide. If I recall correctly, our recently drafted CB, Ben St. Juste, came to us after he had been “medically retired” by Michigan.
 

Redbeard said:
Can we stop with referring to people who have mental health struggles as "fragile?" Thanks.
Click to expand...
No harm intended. It wasn't meant to belittle people struggling with mental health.
 
Last edited:

DanvilleGopher said:
Is Byron Buxton fragile? I'd say yes... (I know, wrong sport AND level of competition but when speaking of fragile, to me, he comes to mind)!
Click to expand...
Buxton, Donaldson, Mauer, Morneau....all fragile.
 
Last edited:


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom