Viramontes transferring

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BarnBurner said:
Huge miss on a starting qb. Arguably the most important position. I am sure pj brought him in and sang his praises to have him in mn less than 6 months.
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What QB hit rate do you expect from PJ?
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Kinda seems like maybe all the folks responsible for ranking him as the best JUCO QB in the country may have whiffed a little too, eh?
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He could have been the best JUCO QB available ... there just may not have been many good ones.....

I see teams like the Gophers talk about picking up the #1 JUCO at such and such position all the time. I think the quality / certainty varies wildly.
 

Rickman55 said:
OMG the sky is falling.
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How is this a bad look? Your saying every recruit is promised a starting spot? Huh? He got beat out by 2 freshman I don’t blame him for leaving at all. Not that big of a deal.
 

For me it's how PJ handles people and decisions.
#1 Rhoda is the team leader, best person for the job.
#2 Croft is not worthy of being in the building, participating in any football activities...he is exiled from the team.
#3 Rhoda is hurt but plays...but told not to run. The offense struggles.
#4 Croft is welcomed back, becomes the instant starter after no football activities for a month and becomes entrenched to take every snap.
#5 Rhoda never plays another snap after being verbally anointed the best person for the job. No second opportunity after PJ publicly announced he was being told not to run, handicapping his performance and making him look inferior.
#6 Season ends...PJ and Croft fight like Junior High kids.
#7 Vic is recruited to play quarterback. He is praised. He arrives on campus and from that moment on all PJ does is take subtle jabs at Vic and his fit as the Gopher QB.
#8 (The one that makes the least sense to me) I saw Seth Green practice. He was NOT the worst QB on the depth chart by any means. He absolutely is the guy who most looks the part. WHY switch his position?
Why make up your mind publicly to do so before spring football even starts? PJ must of had doubts about Vic with the jabs. He can count...Vic leaves and if Seth Green never knew he was not in the mix to be the starting QB come fall the picture is very different.
#9 Zack to me is the best QB prospect. If he is, will he play or will Tanner Morgan play because he is the guy PJ wants to win the job?

PJ does a lot of stuff that doesn't mesh but he also gives clues they might be coming.
And most important. We desperately needed two quarterbacks in this recruiting class before Vic left but we need two who can compete to be the starter real bad now. I think Zack can possibly get the job done Joe Kapp like, with leadership. But neither Morgan or Zack would be in the mix to be the starter for any other Big Ten team.
 



Questions I can't answer:
Was VV recruited based on in-person assessment by the Gopher Coaches, or was it based on film study and/or recommendations from other coaches?

If the Gopher coaches evaluated him in person, and thought he at least had potential to play D1 QB, that is concerning.

If they didn't see him play in person, but recruited him based on film and/or recommendations, that suggests a different set of concerns.

Yeah, I know that not all recruits pan out. I know there are 85 players on scholarship, and only 22 (plus specialists) start in any given week.

But, as others noted, when VV signed, a lot of people, including the Coaches, were talking this guy up as a real catch.

My bottom line - I think this is more evidence that Fleck and his coaching staff have found the transition to a major D1 conference more challenging than they expected. Now, it may turn out fine in the end. Fleck & Co. may learn from these experiences and be better for it in the future.

But, this incident definitely goes down in the minus column. Fleck needs to put something in the plus column to even up the ledger.
 

60's Guy said:
For me it's how PJ handles people and decisions.
#1 Rhoda is the team leader, best person for the job.
#2 Croft is not worthy of being in the building, participating in any football activities...he is exiled from the team.
#3 Rhoda is hurt but plays...but told not to run. The offense struggles.
#4 Croft is welcomed back, becomes the instant starter after no football activities for a month and becomes entrenched to take every snap.
#5 Rhoda never plays another snap after being verbally anointed the best person for the job. No second opportunity after PJ publicly announced he was being told not to run, handicapping his performance and making him look inferior.
#6 Season ends...PJ and Croft fight like Junior High kids.
#7 Vic is recruited to play quarterback. He is praised. He arrives on campus and from that moment on all PJ does is take subtle jabs at Vic and his fit as the Gopher QB.
#8 (The one that makes the least sense to me) I saw Seth Green practice. He was NOT the worst QB on the depth chart by any means. He absolutely is the guy who most looks the part. WHY switch his position?
Why make up your mind publicly to do so before spring football even starts? PJ must of had doubts about Vic with the jabs. He can count...Vic leaves and if Seth Green never knew he was not in the mix to be the starting QB come fall the picture is very different.
#9 Zack to me is the best QB prospect. If he is, will he play or will Tanner Morgan play because he is the guy PJ wants to win the job?

PJ does a lot of stuff that doesn't mesh but he also gives clues they might be coming.
And most important. We desperately needed two quarterbacks in this recruiting class before Vic left but we need two who can compete to be the starter real bad now. I think Zack can possibly get the job done Joe Kapp like, with leadership. But neither Morgan or Zack would be in the mix to be the starter for any other Big Ten team.
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Not everything is so absolute. People change there mind and some players don’t meet expectations.


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short ornery norwegian said:
Questions I can't answer:
Was VV recruited based on in-person assessment by the Gopher Coaches, or was it based on film study and/or recommendations from other coaches?

If the Gopher coaches evaluated him in person, and thought he at least had potential to play D1 QB, that is concerning.

If they didn't see him play in person, but recruited him based on film and/or recommendations, that suggests a different set of concerns.

Yeah, I know that not all recruits pan out. I know there are 85 players on scholarship, and only 22 (plus specialists) start in any given week.

But, as others noted, when VV signed, a lot of people, including the Coaches, were talking this guy up as a real catch.

My bottom line - I think this is more evidence that Fleck and his coaching staff have found the transition to a major D1 conference more challenging than they expected. Now, it may turn out fine in the end. Fleck & Co. may learn from these experiences and be better for it in the future.

But, this incident definitely goes down in the minus column. Fleck needs to put something in the plus column to even up the ledger.
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This also seems like a good time to remember our best assistants fled the program and were replaced by mostly anonymous people. And I probably wouldn't be concerned if PJ wasn't constantly telling me I should be.
 



alchemy2u said:
Not everything is so absolute. People change there mind and some players don’t meet expectations.


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Exactly!! And as a coach you plan for that. You have vision! You do not make decisions until you have to. And the decisions you make, they make sense. The ones I listed do not.
As a successful coach you can't be changing your mind constantly. Yes, guys get beat out. But, not by a guy at Starbucks while the rest of your team is practicing.

Mitch Leidner is our starter. They believed in him. They didn't waiver. Resulted in 9 wins and they lost a quality competitor in the process but I get the process. It makes sense. PJ's timeline does not.
 

gopherhoopsguy said:
How is this a bad look? Your saying every recruit is promised a starting spot? Huh? He got beat out by 2 freshman I don’t blame him for leaving at all. Not that big of a deal.
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Pay attention. I was responding to the previous post that made it sound like the end of the world. It's called SARCASM!
 

It’s too early to write the story on this. It clearly doesn’t look good and I wish VV was here if only for depth reasons. If the QB play is bad this year and we recruited a 3rd string JUCO who couldn’t beat out 2 bad QBs it’s an indictment on the staff. If the QB play is significantly improved and either Morgan or Annexstad look like the real deal, no one will care about this.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
JUCOs are usually brought in if the coaches think they can contribute immediately or at least within a year.
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I think they thought he could compete for the starting job. But I don’t think they were planning on just handing it to him.

At most other positions you can contribute right away without being a starter. You usually don’t rotate in different QBs throughout the game.
 



GophersInIowa said:
I think they thought he could compete for the starting job. But I don’t think they were planning on just handing it to him.

At most other positions you can contribute right away without being a starter. You usually don’t rotate in different QBs throughout the game.
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And if this guy was a "oh yeah this guy starts for sure" kinda QB ....other teams may have gotten to him first....
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Questions I can't answer:
Was VV recruited based on in-person assessment by the Gopher Coaches, or was it based on film study and/or recommendations from other coaches?

If the Gopher coaches evaluated him in person, and thought he at least had potential to play D1 QB, that is concerning.

If they didn't see him play in person, but recruited him based on film and/or recommendations, that suggests a different set of concerns.

Yeah, I know that not all recruits pan out. I know there are 85 players on scholarship, and only 22 (plus specialists) start in any given week.

But, as others noted, when VV signed, a lot of people, including the Coaches, were talking this guy up as a real catch.

My bottom line - I think this is more evidence that Fleck and his coaching staff have found the transition to a major D1 conference more challenging than they expected. Now, it may turn out fine in the end. Fleck & Co. may learn from these experiences and be better for it in the future.

But, this incident definitely goes down in the minus column. Fleck needs to put something in the plus column to even up the ledger.
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Most of the hype was about his athleticism, I don’t think that part was incorrect.

If this is a minus, then getting a walk-on who potentially could be the starter as a true freshman is a plus IMO. It does suck losing Vic for depth though.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I'm thinking Annexstad will emerge as the starter by the Fall. With only what, 15 practices, he was barely behind a RS QB who had all last year to learn the offense.
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I think relying on a walk-on true freshman QB is a scary option as a starter. Especially one that split time in high school. His stats at IMG don't exactly overwhelm. As a senior, completed 63-of-112 passes for 940 yards and 10 touchdowns. Just barely over 50% and not even 1,000 yards.
 

Urbandale said:
I have no problem with this at all.

Looking on the bright side: A highly regarded JUCO quarterback wasn't able to beat out the two younger quarterbacks we have on the roster. That seems to bode well for Morgan and Annexstad.

Looking on the practical side: I never have a problem with a player transferring. They've only got one go-around on the college Ferris wheel, and they should always do what's best for them.
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Good points.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I think they thought he could compete for the starting job. But I don’t think they were planning on just handing it to him.

At most other positions you can contribute right away without being a starter. You usually don’t rotate in different QBs throughout the game.
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I don’t disagree with you. The recruitment seemed to be of the bang bang Vegas weekend elopement type, and not much time elapsed between the Armstrong de commit and VV flying into town. Hard to know how much evaluation went on and it’s pretty easy for people to talk themselves into liking something without a “cooling off” period. If they had access to the full game tape, watched him throw, etc then this is a bad look if he’s dropping back down to play linebacker at CC.

Answer me this: was it a good idea to spend a scholarship on a guy that’s likely to play linebacker this fall (if the rumors are true)? Wasn’t there rumor of another 4 star defender (Verdis Brown?) that couldn’t commit for lack of a spot?
 

John Galt said:
It’s too early to write the story on this. It clearly doesn’t look good and I wish VV was here if only for depth reasons. If the QB play is bad this year and we recruited a 3rd string JUCO who couldn’t beat out 2 bad QBs it’s an indictment on the staff. If the QB play is significantly improved and either Morgan or Annexstad look like the real deal, no one will care about this.
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Yeah, true.
 

Maybe he didn't want to wait until year six to move into the house.
 

3399 said:
I think relying on a walk-on true freshman QB is a scary option as a starter. Especially one that split time in high school. His stats at IMG don't exactly overwhelm. As a senior, completed 63-of-112 passes for 940 yards and 10 touchdowns. Just barely over 50% and not even 1,000 yards.
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And Annexstad still played at a higher level than Rhoda and Demry. Get over it. He'll be taking snaps on Saturdays this fall.
 

3399 said:
I think relying on a walk-on true freshman QB is a scary option as a starter. Especially one that split time in high school. His stats at IMG don't exactly overwhelm. As a senior, completed 63-of-112 passes for 940 yards and 10 touchdowns. Just barely over 50% and not even 1,000 yards.
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Stupid post. First of all, 56.25% is not "just barely" over 50%, and 8.4 ypa is a good number, particularly without digging into the type of offense that IMG runs and knowing what kind of routes they run. Just a really stupid post, but that's par for the course for you.
 



I've been hard on Fleck and staff, particularly in spite of the fact that I really do like him a lot as a coach, but I put far more of the blame on Viramontes here - that is, assuming that the decision to leave was his alone. He will now be committed to/playing for his 5th different team in the 2 years since he graduated HS, and has established a pattern of bailing at the first sign of any adversity. I find it highly unlikely that he wasn't going to play a significant role this fall, even if it was as a zone-read and goal line option only. He's clearly immature and likely isn't too bright from what I've seen, read, and heard.

If, on the other hand, he was being asked to leave by the coaches - that is a serious red flag and a major indictment of their roster construction, talent evaluation, and player development skills. Again, I doubt this is the case and will give them the benefit of the doubt until something comes out that proves otherwise.
 

How do they not move Seth Green back to QB at this point?
 

gopherjay said:
Why would that be? Maybe he was sold something and it was not delivered.....

Maybe the Dbag award goes to the recruiter

Maybe the academic side was too difficult.
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Why let facts get in the way?

I don’t know what the facts in this case are. To your point, could be many reasons, not all of which could be on Vic.

Given the reaction in this board by so many people who were singing his praises when he committed and signed, the award might have a place in this discussion, just not necessarily on Vic.

I do hope we learn more about what transpired here, but I doubt we will.


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mkAz said:
How do they not move Seth Green back to QB at this point?
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Given the depth issues the offense will again be hamstrung if the coaches are afraid to let the QBs take hits on zone read or designed runs. Maybe coaches ask him to take one for the team and Green is brought back into the QB room as a backup option, although perhaps he had embraced the recent move and hopes to make a splash there in hope of making it at the next level.

Demry Croft transfer
Green position change
Mark Williams transfer
Armstrong de-commit
Viramontes transfer and alleged position change

To say there has been some adversity with the QB position is probably accurate. How much is on PJ and how much is on the players is probably unknown and depends on one’s opinion of said people. Seinfeld fans will remember his inability to find a partner as he focused on every perceived shortcoming (eg man hands).

One can think positive and believe one of the two left on roster with FBS offers will develop and excel, or one can envision a disastrous scenario if neither pans out or injuries occur. I happen to think Morgan may develop well and Annexstad shows promise as well. Statistically as newbies they’re both likely to struggle early on though - patience.
 

Should’ve brought in a Juco QB who was willing to be a backup.
If you bring in a guy who isn’t willing to be a backup and then make him a backup...he might leave. Hurts depth.

If two guys go down, who is the quarterback. Green?
Since the coaches seemed to not like him as much as the other two, long term it doesn’t hurt us very much. Short term, it means one or two injuries and we might have a worse offense than last year.
If we stay healthy at QB, it probably only impacts the scout team.
 

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