Utah transfer Both Gach commits to the Gophers

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builtbadgers said:
Not fixed at all or i would be screaming for a firing. No one in history had a 7 year start like this and became great. Great is revealed early, not a national title but conference titles come soon after high finishes and a staple of great defense. That has never been exhibited here.
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Same old Built, just couldn’t resist could you. Ya, and coach K went 10-17 (4-10 in the conference) in his seventh year and 11-17 (3-10 in the conference) in his eighth year and was on the verge of getting fired at Duke.
 

alchemy2u said:
Same old Built, just couldn’t resist could you. Ya, and coach K went 10-17 (4-10 in the conference) in his seventh year and 11-17 (3-10 in the conference) in his eighth year and was on the verge of getting fired at Duke.
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Same old Achemy, still using K and Pitino in the same sentence. What did K do in year 6 of being at a power 6 school ! Your counting Army ! That is laughable. Are you thinking he will match what K did. Seriously, where do you rank him in the Big 10 ? There is no argument about the record here, that lack of defense. The point was that the data shows if your 48-82 in a power 6 conference, one winning season, best finish a single 4th, that you never become great. Would love to see him be that outlier but until he does is, he has not. Do you think that he will finish ahead of Greg Gard even once ?
 
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alchemy2u said:
Same old Built, just couldn’t resist could you. Ya, and coach K went 10-17 (4-10 in the conference) in his seventh year and 11-17 (3-10 in the conference) in his eighth year and was on the verge of getting fired at Duke.
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Best thing I ever did was to put "East Minnesota" on ignore.
 




builtbadgers said:
Not down on him at all but wished he had redshirted being so far from being ready.
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Among the many reasons redshirting is so outdated in this age of player movement is that you sometimes get stuck with an unwanted fifth year for a player.

Built, you have wished in the past that the Gophers had redshirted Michael Hurt. Now, I love Hurt's enthusiasm and smile and think he was a real positive around the program, but if he had redshirted then who are you kicking off this year's team - Liam Robins, Brandon Johnson, Both Gach, Martice Mitchell, Jamal Mashburn, or David Mutaf? One of them has to go.

Built, I continue to enjoy your posts. But this redshirt thing is from another age gone by. Are you also advocating knee-high socks, the four-corner offense, and lots of mid-range jumpers?
 

If only Tony Bennett was our coach.....then built would be happy.

I was in favor of not firing tubby, I'm in favor of keeping Pitino around. Firing and Hiring coaches really sucks and takes a big toll on the program for several seasons. Pitino has been so unlucky with injuries, waivers, character issues, Local recruits, etc... he should be due to some good fortune one of these years.
 

Urbandale said:
Among the many reasons redshirting is so outdated in this age of player movement is that you sometimes get stuck with an unwanted fifth year for a player.

Built, you have wished in the past that the Gophers had redshirted Michael Hurt. Now, I love Hurt's enthusiasm and smile and think he was a real positive around the program, but if he had redshirted then who are you kicking off this year's team - Liam Robins, Brandon Johnson, Both Gach, Martice Mitchell, Jamal Mashburn, or David Mutaf? One of them has to go.

Built, I continue to enjoy your posts. But this redshirt thing is from another age gone by. Are you also advocating knee-high socks, the four-corner offense, and lots of mid-range jumpers?
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Everyone has their opinion on redshirting, but if this transfer rule gets approved then there will be a million guys who never see a 5th year at a school. I hope he is, but do we see freeman here for 5 years? Maybe, but if not what would be the purpose of redshirting him his freshman year? So he can be pretty good his 5th year for someone else?
 



Urbandale said:
Among the many reasons redshirting is so outdated in this age of player movement is that you sometimes get stuck with an unwanted fifth year for a player.

Built, you have wished in the past that the Gophers had redshirted Michael Hurt. Now, I love Hurt's enthusiasm and smile and think he was a real positive around the program, but if he had redshirted then who are you kicking off this year's team - Liam Robins, Brandon Johnson, Both Gach, Martice Mitchell, Jamal Mashburn, or David Mutaf? One of them has to go.

Built, I continue to enjoy your posts. But this redshirt thing is from another age gone by. Are you also advocating knee-high socks, the four-corner offense, and lots of mid-range jumpers?
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The last two National Champions played 16 different players in the title game combined. 9 of those redshirted, 4 were 1st round draft picks, 2 lottery picks. They are redshirting players this year. Recruits are asking for it, transfers asking for it. This happening now, not from age gone by. FYI , it was part of a well laid plan on how to compete with Duke, UNC who will always have better talent. Just one of the steps taken to get older and stronger and not waste a first year. Keep thinking whatever you want, they are going to continue winning.
 
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gophereric30 said:
Everyone has their opinion on redshirting, but if this transfer rule gets approved then there will be a million guys who never see a 5th year at a school. I hope he is, but do we see freeman here for 5 years? Maybe, but if not what would be the purpose of redshirting him his freshman year? So he can be pretty good his 5th year for someone else?
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The transfer rule will be modified to add two reasons why kids will not have to sit and do away with waivers. That will mean that many will be sitting out.
 

JoshuaT81 said:
I dont get why people are so down on Freeman. He was a freshman last year playing behind the 1st or 2nd best center in big 10. When he played garbage time I didnt see anything that says he is horrible. I mean I didnt see a star in the making but I think he will suffice. With the players on this team he will not be asked to be the go to guy. I mean can he be any worse that eliason or konate?
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He was the only healthy backup center on the roster and he still didn't manage to get minutes. We had to play 6-7 Omersa at center who wasn't that great when Outuru was out.

He did show nice touch around the basket when he did get in but how many players have we had end up being quality contributors when they didn't even crack the rotation as a freshman, especially when they played a position of need? Most of those guys like Greenlee, Buggs, Ellenson and Diedhou end up transferring out or never become significant contributors. With Freeman I'll have to see it to believe it.
 

TurfGopher said:
If only Tony Bennett was our coach.....then built would be happy.

I was in favor of not firing tubby, I'm in favor of keeping Pitino around. Firing and Hiring coaches really sucks and takes a big toll on the program for several seasons. Pitino has been so unlucky with injuries, waivers, character issues, Local recruits, etc... he should be due to some good fortune one of these years.
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Actually i would not want TB here. He built a better job at a better school and with a wife from the south, that wanted to live in the south it works best for them right where they are. He wanted to coach in the ACC so he could go against all those hall of fame coaches. He could not do that here although he would have won here easier. I am a very joyful person and would be thrilled if anyone won here. I am not pleased with the pitiful job done here over 7 years.
 



builtbadgers said:
The transfer rule will be modified to add two reasons why kids will not have to sit and do away with waivers. That will mean that many will be sitting out.
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If basketball had same rules as football, freeman would be a freshman this year. He played in less than 33% of games last year!
 


gophereric30 said:
Everyone has their opinion on redshirting, but if this transfer rule gets approved then there will be a million guys who never see a 5th year at a school. I hope he is, but do we see freeman here for 5 years? Maybe, but if not what would be the purpose of redshirting him his freshman year? So he can be pretty good his 5th year for someone else?
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Thats only one half of the equation. What’s the purpose of playing Freeman his freshman year??? Freeman played like 24 minutes in TOTAL last year. The gophers used a year of his eligibility to put him into garbage minutes. Pitino got absolutely nothing with that scholarship last year. We are talking about someone who played no meaningful minutes last year. Part of that is how dominant and proficient Oturu played, but part of that was Freeman’s ability.

Being dramatic here, but based on your post, it seems like you’d rather someone play 24 throwaway minutes his freshman year because he *might* transfer out his 5th year if he redshirts. I’ll redshirt the 13th scholarship/roster spot all day in the hopes that he develops into a solid upperclassmen contributor for a 5th year.

Btw I think it’s a separate argument about whether anyone in this position deserves a scholarship (in this case I like Freeman on this team and see no reason he can’t develop into a big ten player). It’s also entirely up to the player, as others have noted. Freeman may not have wanted any part of a redshirt.
 

bc2211 said:
Thats only one half of the equation. What’s the purpose of playing Freeman his freshman year??? Freeman played like 24 minutes in TOTAL last year. The gophers used a year of his eligibility to put him into garbage minutes. Pitino got absolutely nothing with that scholarship last year. We are talking about someone who played no meaningful minutes last year. Part of that is how dominant and proficient Oturu played, but part of that was Freeman’s ability.

Being dramatic here, but based on your post, it seems like you’d rather someone play 24 throwaway minutes his freshman year because he *might* transfer out his 5th year if he redshirts. I’ll redshirt the 13th scholarship/roster spot all day in the hopes that he develops into a solid upperclassmen contributor for a 5th year.

Btw I think it’s a separate argument about whether anyone in this position deserves a scholarship (in this case I like Freeman on this team and see no reason he can’t develop into a big ten player). It’s also entirely up to the player, as others have noted. Freeman may not have wanted any part of a redshirt.
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Your last sentence is so true and why it has to be covered in recruiting. No doubt easier for the programs that have been so successful with it have players coming to them. But in each case it was built in as part of a plan and utilized very early.
 

builtbadgers said:
Same old Achemy, still using K and Pitino in the same sentence. What did K do in year 6 of being at a power 6 school ! Your counting Army ! That is laughable. Are you thinking he will match what K did. Seriously, where do you rank him in the Big 10 ? There is no argument about the record here, that lack of defense. The point was that the data shows if your 48-82 in a power 6 conference, one winning season, best finish a single 4th, that you never become great. Would love to see him be that outlier but until he does is, he has not. Do you think that he will finish ahead of Greg Gard even once ?
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I am just using the the first seven years of being a head coach. You tend to ignore the "learning years" of all those "great" coaches. It is not Pitino's fault that he had to learn on the job at a P5 school. Many coaches spend 10-15 years at a lower level job, out of the spot light, and where they can coach their way out of recruiting/roster mistakes, not in the B1G where you are going to be torn apart. Coach K got that one year of recruits that changed his whole career and saved his job at Duke. I am not saying that Pitino is going to have the same career as Coach K, just pointing out the ridiculousness of your blanket statements. And don't go saying that I have any less expectations or that you just have higher standards.
 

bc2211 said:
Thats only one half of the equation. What’s the purpose of playing Freeman his freshman year??? Freeman played like 24 minutes in TOTAL last year. The gophers used a year of his eligibility to put him into garbage minutes. Pitino got absolutely nothing with that scholarship last year. We are talking about someone who played no meaningful minutes last year. Part of that is how dominant and proficient Oturu played, but part of that was Freeman’s ability.

Being dramatic here, but based on your post, it seems like you’d rather someone play 24 throwaway minutes his freshman year because he *might* transfer out his 5th year if he redshirts. I’ll redshirt the 13th scholarship/roster spot all day in the hopes that he develops into a solid upperclassmen contributor for a 5th year.

Btw I think it’s a separate argument about whether anyone in this position deserves a scholarship (in this case I like Freeman on this team and see no reason he can’t develop into a big ten player). It’s also entirely up to the player, as others have noted. Freeman may not have wanted any part of a redshirt.
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I personally dont care if people redshirt or not. I'm not the coach. Yes it may have been Freeman's choice. The fact that we dont know if it was or not shows us how much we know about what goes on inside Pitino's program! My point was I just dont see alot of guys staying for 5 years if the transfer rule changes. I'm all for freeman staying 5 years and being a factor in the program.
 

builtbadgers said:
Most teams do not win conference titles, get to final 4's, win national titles. UVA takes transfers. Braxton Key transferred in and grabbed 10 rebounds in the national title victory. Anthony Gill transferred in and won two ACC titles, they just took a transfer now, Murphy who actually requested a sit out so he could be part of what they do. Plus they got Hauser , he will play this year as possibly the best transfer anyone got. Potter was a huge part of UW winning the conference last year. Nova does not do it much, they have been burned by it. Hoiberg did it really big but still won nothing.
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Oh potter that white guy on the team
 

builtbadgers said:
Actually i would not want TB here. He built a better job at a better school and with a wife from the south, that wanted to live in the south it works best for them right where they are. He wanted to coach in the ACC so he could go against all those hall of fame coaches. He could not do that here although he would have won here easier. I am a very joyful person and would be thrilled if anyone won here. I am not pleased with the pitiful job done here over 7 years.
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"I don't want tony bennet here because he would win too easily" GH preposterous statement of the year, you clearly have your reasons but for someone who opines to beat wisconsin and win the conference on a frequent basis, you just completely contradicted yourself and everything you have ever said
 

gophereric30 said:
I personally dont care if people redshirt or not. I'm not the coach. Yes it may have been Freeman's choice. The fact that we dont know if it was or not shows us how much we know about what goes on inside Pitino's program! My point was I just dont see alot of guys staying for 5 years if the transfer rule changes. I'm all for freeman staying 5 years and being a factor in the program.
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Didn’t mean to jump on your post too specifically... the curse of forums where the opinions of several faceless people meld into one.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
"I don't want tony bennet here because he would win too easily" GH preposterous statement of the year, you clearly have your reasons but for someone who opines to beat wisconsin and win the conference on a frequent basis, you just completely contradicted yourself and everything you have ever said
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Not at all. Winning the CONFERENCE HERE, is easier than winning the ACC. My preference for him to be where he wants exceeds my desire for him to be here beating UW.
 
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bc2211 said:
Didn’t mean to jump on your post too specifically... the curse of forums where the opinions of several faceless people meld into one.
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Haha no it's ok, I agree with what your saying. If freeman is gonna play 24 minutes it's a no brainer to redshirt him. If he transfers out in next few years what does it matter. Only matters to freeman not minnesota. I hope hes a beast for us in the next few years! Next year is huge for him. He'll either realize he's gonna be the starter here in 3 years, possibly 2 or hes probably gonna transfer out realizing he'll never start. With new transfer rule my guess would be hes gone after this year realizing robbins might have 2 years left or still 1.
 

I may be wrong, but my gut tells me that in today's game, good players play right away for the most part - especially at a program like MN. Sure, if a player goes to a really stacked team, they might red-shirt or play limited minutes as a true FR. But that would be at a really stacked team. And even there, if you're good enough, you play right away.

but at most programs, especially programs that need to win, if you're good enough to play, you play as a FR. And if you're not playing as a FR, my gut says the odds of that player ever becoming a major contributor are fairly small.

I suppose someone out there could do a study of players who saw limited minutes as a FR and eventually developed into a solid contributor. Again, I could be wrong.

I'm just going by my gut. Sure, players can and do improve - but do they improve from playing no meaningful minutes as a FR to the point where they become a solid contributor? I can't think of many MN examples off the top of my head.

so, if Freeman ever becomes more than a rotational back-up, I would consider that a plus based on his playing time and contributions as a FR.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I may be wrong, but my gut tells me that in today's game, good players play right away for the most part - especially at a program like MN. Sure, if a player goes to a really stacked team, they might red-shirt or play limited minutes as a true FR. But that would be at a really stacked team. And even there, if you're good enough, you play right away.

but at most programs, especially programs that need to win, if you're good enough to play, you play as a FR. And if you're not playing as a FR, my gut says the odds of that player ever becoming a major contributor are fairly small.

I suppose someone out there could do a study of players who saw limited minutes as a FR and eventually developed into a solid contributor. Again, I could be wrong.

I'm just going by my gut. Sure, players can and do improve - but do they improve from playing no meaningful minutes as a FR to the point where they become a solid contributor? I can't think of many MN examples off the top of my head.

so, if Freeman ever becomes more than a rotational back-up, I would consider that a plus based on his playing time and contributions as a FR.
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Of course most players do not redshirt, most do not want to and most coaches are fighting and scratching for wins right away because of the pressure to win right away combined with a natural competitiveness. Same for the player but to build a foundation takes patience and thoughtfulness. Few will follow this route which allows those that do to flourish as they target kids that fit and are better at it. Some terrific players are good enough to play for mediocre teams but not ready to play for great ones. To your point about not playing as freashman and rarely becoming great, with or without a redshirt there are hundreds of examples of guys who barely saw the floor become all conference.
 


builtbadgers said:
Not at all. Winning the CONFERENCE HERE, is easier than winning the ACC. My preference for him to be where he wants exceeds my desire for him to be here beating UW.
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My point exactly. You have shown you could care less about the Gophers winning as you openly advocate a great coach being elsewhere. You have even said in the past that Bennet was interested in this job had he been offered after Tubby was fired. Are you not allowed on the UVA board or do you just like to come on here and constantly talk about UVA to rub their success in our face? You do have some great insights no doubt, but this is a Gopher board and you constantly bring up other programs no one but you cares about. Yes I understand I can block you, that's just not how i roll.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
My point exactly. You have shown you could care less about the Gophers winning as you openly advocate a great coach being elsewhere. You have even said in the past that Bennet was interested in this job had he been offered after Tubby was fired. Are you not allowed on the UVA board or do you just like to come on here and constantly talk about UVA to rub their success in our face? You do have some great insights no doubt, but this is a Gopher board and you constantly bring up other programs no one but you cares about. Yes I understand I can block you, that's just not how i roll.
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I was for hiring Bennett at that time and not mad that it was not considered. As it turned out he would not have stayed. I am all for having a great coach here. I am thrilled that Fleck may very well be that. Loved that he instilled a culture day one. If you ever read my posts , no one would like to win more than i do or believes more fervently than i that it requires a great coach. The UVA references or the UW references or Nova ARE NOT MEANT to rub anything in anyone's face. They are what i want to see here. I despised what a train wreck this athletic department was when it came to hiring and left us nothing but mediocre results in football and basketball. Now we have a AD that knows how to go about it. I have supported the program for 50 years but as a professional that spent a lifetime studying and representing coaches and athletic directors i became pretty familiar with how things get done. I continue to not only support the program financially but still travel long distance to games.
 


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