Updates About Penn State Scandal UPDATED 6/12: PSU has spent $45.9M on scandal

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CrocShots said:
We've been debating what the NCAA will or won't do, but what really is missing in the Debate is what can happen with the "Clery Act". The section on the Clery act starts around page 110 of the report.

Any institution that participates in Federal financial aid, must report crime statistics to the Federal Department of Education. the DOE has the ability to issue fines for violations or, in extreme cases, end federal funding to the institution. The Clery Act broadly defines the term "Campus Security Authority" as the following entitites highlighted by Freeh: "An official of an institution who has significant responsibility for student and campus activities" and later on: "a director of athletics, a team coach..."

Basically, Because the sexual crimes were not reported to the police, nor reported to the DOE. Penn State could be in a mess of trouble when it comes to the Federal Government and their accreditation. The Extreme would be if their accreditation as a University would be stripped when their current accreditation ends in 2014-15.

No accreditation is unanimous grounds for removal from the NCAA.

That is why this is a football issue.
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Nicely stated top to bottom. This does tie Penn State to the NCAA in clear fashion. The American legal system works like a well oiled and finely crafted machine.
 

Dean S said:
Nicely stated top to bottom. This does tie Penn State to the NCAA in clear fashion. The American legal system works like a well oiled and finely crafted machine.
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As opposed to this blog?
 





CrocShots said:
We've been debating what the NCAA will or won't do, but what really is missing in the Debate is what can happen with the "Clery Act". The section on the Clery act starts around page 110 of the report.

Any institution that participates in Federal financial aid, must report crime statistics to the Federal Department of Education. the DOE has the ability to issue fines for violations or, in extreme cases, end federal funding to the institution. The Clery Act broadly defines the term "Campus Security Authority" as the following entitites highlighted by Freeh: "An official of an institution who has significant responsibility for student and campus activities" and later on: "a director of athletics, a team coach..."

Basically, Because the sexual crimes were not reported to the police, nor reported to the DOE. Penn State could be in a mess of trouble when it comes to the Federal Government and their accreditation. The Extreme would be if their accreditation as a University would be stripped when their current accreditation ends in 2014-15.

No accreditation is unanimous grounds for removal from the NCAA.

That is why this is a football issue.
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Penn State is accredited by the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools which is not a governmental agency.
 

"Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims by the most senior leaders at Penn State," said Louis Freeh, the former director of the FBI who was hired by university trustees to look into what has become one of sports' biggest scandals. "The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized."

After an eight-month inquiry, Freeh's firm produced a 267-page report that concluded that Hall of Fame coach Paterno, President Graham Spanier, athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz "failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade."

Freeh called the officials' disregard for child victims "callous and shocking."

"In order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at the university -- Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley -- repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse," the report said.

Paterno "was an integral part of this active decision to conceal," Freeh said at a news conference.

Asked directly if Paterno's firing last fall was justified, Freeh answered, "Yes."

Let's see how the PSU apologists spin this one...
 

mattw1067 said:
Penn State is accredited by the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools which is not a governmental agency.
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This is true, however, The Department of Education requires accreditation in order to receive financial aid. People who accredit colleges and universities are not the ones who are actually paying out the financial aid dollars, but are committees of colleagues and peers of the colleges and universities undergoing accredidation. For example, I could go and sign up to be an accreditor, if I so chose, I just wouldn't be working on my own school.
 

The Penn St union TV thing has been solved: http://onwardstate.com/2012/07/12/defending-the-hub-tv/


The NCAA is only listed three times in the Freeh report, one of which talks about the University which ...has no centralized [compliance] office, officer or committee to oversee institutional compliance with laws, regulations, policies and procedures... As an example, the Athletic Department has an Associate Athletic Director responsible for [NCAA] compliance, but that group is significantly understaffed"

That is what the NCAA is looking at.
 




Dean S said:
Nicely stated top to bottom. This does tie Penn State to the NCAA in clear fashion. The American legal system works like a well oiled and finely crafted machine.
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A nitpick. The Clearly Act has nothing to do with the NCAA with regards to the NCAA enacting punishments on PSU (i.e. bowl bans, scholly losses) It is true that if PSU lost accreditation for the Clearly Act violations then they’d be out of the NCAA. But that wouldn’t be a punishment handed down from an NCAA investigation based on rules violations. That would be the school failing to qualify as a member (i.e. PSU wouldn’t even be in a position to receive any NCAA punishments b/c they wouldn’t be in the NCAA anymore).

It’s a small but important distinction if we’re talking about whether the NCAA should take action to punish PSU. The NCAA doesn't accredit PSU.
 

Freeh is a noted hard-a**, but that's what was called for in this instance.
 

GoAUpher said:
A nitpick. The Clearly Act has nothing to do with the NCAA with regards to the NCAA enacting punishments on PSU (i.e. bowl bans, scholly losses) It is true that if PSU lost accreditation for the Clearly Act violations then they’d be out of the NCAA. But that wouldn’t be a punishment handed down from an NCAA investigation based on rules violations. That would be the school failing to qualify as a member (i.e. PSU wouldn’t even be in a position to receive any NCAA punishments b/c they wouldn’t be in the NCAA anymore).

It’s a small but important distinction if we’re talking about whether the NCAA should take action to punish PSU. The NCAA doesn't accredit PSU.
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That isn't how the LA Times reports it. They quote the NCAA prez and he, a lawyer, draws the line between Penn State and the Act. Not only that, but Freeh draws the line in the report about institutional control and why federal funding requires the reporting of violations, including in the football department. Since the NCAA states in its ethics statements that every football player must sign and every institution must conform to the law of the land, they can yank Penn States NCAA membership right from them. But, it would be simpler to just punish them in other ways.

Your view is a minority view. The only lawyer out there that might agree with you is JoPa's family lawyer, who has been out there recreating history for the last few days on every news outlet he could tie himself into. We call that the spin. As of now, the whole Paterno clan is trying new spins on the storyline that Joe did everything he could to get an investigation going during the 14 years of his obstruction of justice in the name of football. It is now in black and white or whatever the color electrons may be.

If you are an attorney, gawd forbid somebody hire you for advice. If you are not, you are way over your head and should stop trying to swim upstream of the bears.
 



Dean S said:
That isn't how the LA Times reports it. They quote the NCAA prez and he, a lawyer, draws the line between Penn State and the Act.
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A link to this would be good. I'd prefer the primary source to your summary.


Dean S said:
Not only that, but Freeh draws the line in the report about institutional control and why federal funding requires the reporting of violations, including in the football department.
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You've nicely summarized the Dept of Education's reasons for caring, but this isn't an NCAA thing.

Dean S said:
Since the NCAA states in its ethics statements that every football player must sign and every institution must conform to the law of the land, they can yank Penn States NCAA membership right from them.
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I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about here. The forms a student athlete signs have no bearing in this case. But you also seem to be lumping in some potential NCAA rule here as well which is odd. If you have a specific NCAA rule in mind you should post a link to it.

Dean S said:
Your view is a minority view. The only lawyer out there that might agree with you is JoPa's family lawyer, who has been out there recreating history for the last few days on every news outlet he could tie himself into. We call that the spin. As of now, the whole Paterno clan is trying new spins on the storyline that Joe did everything he could to get an investigation going during the 14 years of his obstruction of justice in the name of football. It is now in black and white or whatever the color electrons may be.
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So, this is a lot of nonsense. You seem to be confusing me for someone who is arguing that PSU didn't do anything wrong. That's not at all what I said. I'm simply pointing out that losing accredidation means PSU isn't eligible to be in the NCAA. The NCAA doesn't even need to do anything to kick them out. The school would simply be ineligible by rule. That is different from punishments levied after an NCAA investigation. If you can't understand why those are different then you've got issues with basic logic.

Dean S said:
If you are an attorney, gawd forbid somebody hire you for advice. If you are not, you are way over your head and should stop trying to swim upstream of the bears.
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I am not. I'm someone with basic logic and reasoning skills.
 

Thanks for the link, Bleed. For those that didn't follow the link, here's 1 especially damning section:

"So why was Sandusky not turned in?

"Based on the evidence, the only known, intervening factor between the decision made on February 25, 2001 by Messrs. Spanier, Curley and Schulz to report the incident to the Department of Public Welfare, and then agreeing not to do so on February 27th, was Mr. Paterno's February 26th conversation with Mr. Curley," the report states."

It gets worse. At no point in 2001 did Paterno or the others try to find the boy Sandusky was seen molesting in that shower. No one asked Sandusky who the boy was, where the boy was. No one went searching.

A "callous and shocking disregard for child victims," Freeh concluded. "


There is no punishment the NCAA could impose on Penn State that would be too severe.
 

At least one dude at NBC sports calling for Penn State Death Penalty. I wonder if this chorus will grow?
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/48126484/ns/sports-college_football/

At some point does Penn State get in danger of being booted from the conference?

For the most part, up until now I have sort have been avoiding coverage of this whole thing. The subject matter has been too gut wrenching, and as a side light it was tough to consider a seemingly nice guy like Paterno could be part of an organized cover up. That changed for me today. To think people could have actually stopped this makes the horror of the crimes 100x more difficult to comprehend.
 

Schnauzer said:
At least one dude at NBC sports calling for Penn State Death Penalty. I wonder if this chorus will grow?
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/48126484/ns/sports-college_football/

At some point does Penn State get in danger of being booted from the conference?

For the most part, up until now I have sort have been avoiding coverage of this whole thing. The subject matter has been too gut wrenching, and as a side light it was tough to consider a seemingly nice guy like Paterno could be part of an organized cover up. That changed for me today. To think people could have actually stopped this makes the horror of the crimes 100x more difficult to comprehend.
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The silly thing about the "give them the death penalty" people is that PSU isn't eligible for the death penalty under NCAA rules. You have to be a repeat offender. So these people are suggesting that the NCAA break it's own rules in the process of enforcing it's own rules.
 

Golden Elephant said:
Thanks for the link, Bleed. For those that didn't follow the link, here's 1 especially damning section:

"So why was Sandusky not turned in?

"Based on the evidence, the only known, intervening factor between the decision made on February 25, 2001 by Messrs. Spanier, Curley and Schulz to report the incident to the Department of Public Welfare, and then agreeing not to do so on February 27th, was Mr. Paterno's February 26th conversation with Mr. Curley," the report states."

It gets worse. At no point in 2001 did Paterno or the others try to find the boy Sandusky was seen molesting in that shower. No one asked Sandusky who the boy was, where the boy was. No one went searching.

A "callous and shocking disregard for child victims," Freeh concluded. "


There is no punishment the NCAA could impose on Penn State that would be too severe.
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Chilling and should really put an end to the Paterno pathos. JoePa was simply a megalomaniac. As a middle-aged boring Midwesterner, I always have to check myself to see if it's me when I'm dealing with what I perceive to be a monstrous ego. That being said, there was always something about Paterno that just rubbed me the wrong way.
 

It's not like the NCAA is above setting precedents. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
 

The word "football" appears 129 times in the report but this is strictly a criminal matter.
 

CrocShots said:
The Penn St union TV thing has been solved: http://onwardstate.com/2012/07/12/defending-the-hub-tv/


The NCAA is only listed three times in the Freeh report, one of which talks about the University which ...has no centralized [compliance] office, officer or committee to oversee institutional compliance with laws, regulations, policies and procedures... As an example, the Athletic Department has an Associate Athletic Director responsible for [NCAA] compliance, but that group is significantly understaffed"

That is what the NCAA is looking at.
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It just keeps piling up.
 

DPO, do you still think it is "silly" to suggest this will affect Penn State's football program?
 

Any legal experts out there? If PSU gets named in civil suits does the state of PA indemnify PSU since its a state school? If so, this could be a historic civil suit money wise.
 

gopher_alum_2005 said:
Any legal experts out there? If PSU gets named in civil suits does the state of PA indemnify PSU since its a state school? If so, this could be a historic civil suit money wise.
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I am no means a legal expert. I did find this blog article for you. I think it may answer some of the legal questions you have.

Author of blog is a trial lawyer and has information about him on the site. Perhaps others will have additional insight, etc.

Buck
 

Replacement Gopher said:
DPO, do you still think it is "silly" to suggest this will affect Penn State's football program?
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I never said it won't. I said it shouldn't. Unless and until an NCAA violation is found, the NCAA has no jurisdiction. It's really quite simple. That doesn't mean that the NCAA won't overstep its bounds and inflict unwarranted punishment to sate the bloodthirsty irrational masses.
 

A review by the NCAA might benefit from the Freeh findings, attorneys said. That review likely will not result in major sanctions for the football program, three former NCAA officials said.

Sandusky’s crimes and the apparent breakdown that allowed him to prey on boys do not constitute a lack of institutional control that falls under the NCAA purview, they said. Normal breaches the NCAA reviews include paying players and recruiting violations.

“Where did (Penn State) gain a competitive advantage?” asked Birmingham, Ala.-based attorney Gene Marsh, who chaired the NCAA infractions committee from 2004-06. “If (the NCAA is) going to get in that game, they’ll be breaking new ground. But it doesn’t mean they can’t try.”

The NCAA said it is monitoring the Penn State situation and “will determine whether any additional action is necessary.”

Article Source
 


Originally Posted by short ornery norwegian
It will be a backdrop to the entire 2012 season and possibly beyond, which can't help Penn State's recruiting.

DPO: They are having a tough time of it so far, ranking #15 in the country and securing the commitments of 7 four-stars:

Regardless of their current ranking, it is "silly" to think this will be anything but a backdrop to the entire 2012 season and beyond and will negatively impact their recruiting.
 

Replacement Gopher said:
Regardless of their current ranking, it is "silly" to think this will be anything but a backdrop to the entire 2012 season and beyond and will negatively impact their recruiting.
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It will certainly be a backdrop to their season. But it's already been the backdrop to their offseason and yet recruiting is unaffected. If recruiting falters, it's much more likely to be b/c PSU sucks on the field or b/c O'Brien turns out the be a crappy HC.
 

"recruiting is unaffected". Really? PSU has had no negative impact to recruiting from this? C'mon man. In the words of DPO, that is silly and absurd.
 

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