Updates About Penn State Scandal UPDATED 6/12: PSU has spent $45.9M on scandal

Donate To GopherHole
SDGopherFan said:
Did Missouri school leaders cover it up to protect their athletics program?
Click to expand...

Has he been doing it for years and putting everyone in harm's way? Did the school know about it and do everything they could to keep it quiet? Was the motive for keeping it quiet to avoid bad press for their football team?
 


GoAUpher said:
The silly thing about the "give them the death penalty" people is that PSU isn't eligible for the death penalty under NCAA rules. You have to be a repeat offender. So these people are suggesting that the NCAA break it's own rules in the process of enforcing it's own rules.
Click to expand...

And how many times did Sandusky repeat his crime? I know what your saying but they repeatedly covered it up. If their is any grounds what so ever for the NCAA to hand down the death penalty they need to do it.
 

dpodoll68 said:
How about Gary Pinkel? He had a DUI. He broke the law. Missouri is fully aware of this, and continues to keep him employed in spite of it. Should they have NCAA sanctions?
Click to expand...

Do you know the difference between a gross misdemeanor and a felony?
 

wdgold said:
And how many times did Sandusky repeat his crime? I know what your saying but they repeatedly covered it up. If their is any grounds what so ever for the NCAA to hand down the death penalty they need to do it.
Click to expand...

I will say it again. PSU does not even qualify for the death penalty. People need to stop making up their own definitions for things. To the NCAA, a repeat offender is a school that has been penalized for a major violation within the last five years. PSU hasn't. Everything involved in this scandal would be part of a single investigation. Without the prior major violation of NCAA rules PSU does not qualify.
 


Dean S said:
Do you know the difference between a gross misdemeanor and a felony?
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter. The NCAA doesn't differentiate between the two b/c the NCAA doesn't even have rules about almost all criminal offenses. There may be some about drug use by players but I'm not 100% sure (I don't think they do since schools self punish that and schools have different penalties).
 



If OJ was a professor emeritus, and The murders were witnessed by a current member of tHe football staff,and the investigation was scuttled by the current head coach,and the murders occurred in the football locker room,your analogy would hold. It doesn't hold now.

Football was the currency that Sundusky used to lure his prey. Not Penn States fault. Until they knew he was a creep. After that, the university did not act on numerous red flags, an eyewitness account from a staff member, and decided to protect their own, all while allowing Jerry to continue to use program facilities.

NCAA or no, saying this has nothing to do with football is as odd as believing that k2 is incense.
 




GoAUpher said:
Doesn't matter. The NCAA doesn't differentiate between the two b/c the NCAA doesn't even have rules about almost all criminal offenses. There may be some about drug use by players but I'm not 100% sure (I don't think they do since schools self punish that and schools have different penalties).
Click to expand...

Drug sanctions are an interesting thing. Seems the NCAA can enforce some penalties for breaking the law of the land then. Then, then the NCAA has the power to penalize for other crimes that surround their program, like Sandusky. I will repeat the idea behind the Neuremberg trials. You are guilty of crimes against humanity if you allow rape to go on during your watch, even if you were following state orders to not intervene, and even if you did not conduct the rape itself. The court found several Germans guilty, even when they were no greater than 3rd party involvement. The people of Penn State had a duty to act on behalf of the children. The NCAA has a duty to perform and to show all the sporting public that this type of crime will not be tolerated by the members of the NCAA. Football can not be held above the law in the name of the game, the coaches, or the players.
 

Dean S said:
Drug sanctions are an interesting thing. Seems the NCAA can enforce some penalties for breaking the law of the land then. Then, then the NCAA has the power to penalize for other crimes that surround their program, like Sandusky. I will repeat the idea behind the Neuremberg trials. You are guilty of crimes against humanity if you allow rape to go on during your watch, even if you were following state orders to not intervene, and even if you did not conduct the rape itself. The court found several Germans guilty, even when they were no greater than 3rd party involvement. The people of Penn State had a duty to act on behalf of the children. The NCAA has a duty to perform and to show all the sporting public that this type of crime will not be tolerated by the members of the NCAA. Football can not be held above the law in the name of the game, the coaches, or the players.
Click to expand...

So now we are comparing the authority and the duty of the NCAA to the Nuremberg trials. That's a part of the problem-people placing too much importance on the NCAA and sports.

The American Judicial system is the body that is in charge of these crimes against society.

If it is found that Penn State committed NCAA infractions they then should be punished by said body at that time. Until that time, this is criminal, civil and moral issue-not a sports issue.
 

Blah Blah Blah Station 18 - Throw them out of the Big Ten! You spend decades raping children and your program is gone...done..forgotten.
 



station19 said:
So now we are comparing the authority and the duty of the NCAA to the Nuremberg trials. That's a part of the problem-people placing too much importance on the NCAA and sports.

The American Judicial system is the body that is in charge of these crimes against society.

If it is found that Penn State committed NCAA infractions they then should be punished by said body at that time. Until that time, this is criminal, civil and moral issue-not a sports issue.
Click to expand...


IDK how the NCAA doesn't get involved somehow, because the fact is the FOOTBALL PROGRAM was used as a tool for Sandusky to MOLEST BOYS what part of this don't some people understand. Their is going to be some kind of infraction found by the NCAA.
 

Parski1 said:
Blah Blah Blah Station 18 - Throw them out of the Big Ten! You spend decades raping children and your program is gone...done..forgotten.
Click to expand...

I'm Station19, not 18. Don't underestimate me.
 

station19 said:
So now we are comparing the authority and the duty of the NCAA to the Nuremberg trials. That's a part of the problem-people placing too much importance on the NCAA and sports.

The American Judicial system is the body that is in charge of these crimes against society.

If it is found that Penn State committed NCAA infractions they then should be punished by said body at that time. Until that time, this is criminal, civil and moral issue-not a sports issue.
Click to expand...


IDK how the NCAA doesn't get involved somehow, because the fact is the FOOTBALL PROGRAM was used as a tool for Sandusky to MOLEST BOYS and worst yet the people in charge of the program covered it up.

Sorry for the double post.
 


Well the utmost authority on all things sports :rolleyes: ESPN's Stephen A. Smith has weighed in with his opinion on this situation..... the Death Penalty for Penn State's football program. He just said that they should not be allowed to play a football game for not 1, not 2, but not for 5 years and their current players allowed to transfer out. Wow, I thought that some people on this board could be harsh :)
 

Dean S said:
Drug sanctions are an interesting thing. Seems the NCAA can enforce some penalties for breaking the law of the land then. Then, then the NCAA has the power to penalize for other crimes that surround their program, like Sandusky. I will repeat the idea behind the Neuremberg trials. You are guilty of crimes against humanity if you allow rape to go on during your watch, even if you were following state orders to not intervene, and even if you did not conduct the rape itself. The court found several Germans guilty, even when they were no greater than 3rd party involvement. The people of Penn State had a duty to act on behalf of the children. The NCAA has a duty to perform and to show all the sporting public that this type of crime will not be tolerated by the members of the NCAA. Football can not be held above the law in the name of the game, the coaches, or the players.
Click to expand...
First off, the NCAA doesn't punish for the drug offenses. As I already noted, the schools do. And schools can pick their own penalties (Georgia for instance, has much more stringent penalties than other SEC schools). I think there are NCAA rules in place requiring that the schools drug test and other things they must do in that realm (i.e. report the positive test...Baylor got dinged for not doing that during the Bliss mess I think). But there are no NCAA investigations when a player tests positive and no NCAA sanctions handed out for positive tests that are reported.

Here's the other thing. Whatever those NCAA rules on drugs are, THEY ARE SPELLED OUT IN DETAIL. You can't look to a scenario where the NCAA has a clear set of rules related to an offense (where the NCAA isn't even punishing for the offense) and then go "well here's an entirely different scenario that isn't accounted for but we can punish it based on...well, based on rules that don't exist". That's not logical and goes right back to the banana republic issue.

The Neuremberg trials are not related to this in any way. They speak to war crimes where there are laws that specify what a war crime is. The individuals at Penn State who are responsible will be facing punishment from the criminal courts that have the power to punish them.
 

wdgold said:
IDK how the NCAA doesn't get involved somehow, because the fact is the FOOTBALL PROGRAM was used as a tool for Sandusky to MOLEST BOYS what part of this don't some people understand. Their is going to be some kind of infraction found by the NCAA.
Click to expand...

It's really simple. If there are no rules broken, then the NCAA shouldn't be involved. If there were rules broken, the NCAA can and should be involved. And if there are rules broken, the NCAA should not hand out punishments that it's own rules forbid it from levying (i.e. death penalty).
 

GoAUpher said:
It's really simple. If there are no rules broken, then the NCAA shouldn't be involved. If there were rules broken, the NCAA can and should be involved. And if there are rules broken, the NCAA should not hand out punishments that it's own rules forbid it from levying (i.e. death penalty).
Click to expand...

If you would take your nose out of your law books every once in awhile you would start to understand how the real world operates. In the real world a very conservative Chief Justice twists himself into a pretzel to insure the Supreme Court does not overturn an Act of Congress on a 5-4 partisan vote. In the real world the Minnesota Legislature feels free to interfere with the operation of the U of M whether or not it is legally permitted because they appoint the members of the Board of Regents and Minnesota taxpayers provide a large portion of the U's funding. And in the real world the NCAA is going to punish Penn State whether or not their governing rules permit it because that is what a large percentage of the American people are going to demand - and Penn State will not challenge the NCAA penalties because they will not want to go against a large percentage of the American people. The only way Penn State is going to avoid NCAA punishment is to punish themselves. I think that is what will happen.
 

46Gophers said:
Well the utmost authority on all things sports :rolleyes: ESPN's Stephen A. Smith has weighed in with his opinion on this situation..... the Death Penalty for Penn State's football program. He just said that they should not be allowed to play a football game for not 1, not 2, but not for 5 years and their current players allowed to transfer out. Wow, I thought that some people on this board could be harsh :)
Click to expand...

Stephen A. Smith is one of the biggest morons in the media. Too bad he can't speak English.
 

Go4Broke said:
If you would take your nose out of your law books every once in awhile you would start to understand how the real world operates. In the real world a very conservative Chief Justice twists himself into a pretzel to insure the Supreme Court does not overturn an Act of Congress on a 5-4 partisan vote. In the real world the Minnesota Legislature feels free to interfere with the operation of the U of M whether or not it is legally permitted because they appoint the members of the Board of Regents and Minnesota taxpayers provide a large portion of the U's funding. And in the real world the NCAA is going to punish Penn State whether or not their governing rules permit it because that is what a large percentage of the American people are going to demand, and Penn State will not challenge the NCAA penalties because they will not want to go against a large percentage of the American people. The only way Penn State is going to avoid NCAA punishment is to punish themselves. I think that is what will happen.
Click to expand...



Thank You, someone finally gets it!
 

station19 said:
Stephen A. Smith is one of the biggest morons in the media. Too bad he can't speak English.
Click to expand...
I and many others agree with Stephan A Smith on this issue. He's telling it like it is. Just like you try to do Station 17. The Death Penalty is still not enough for a school that was raping and hiding the raping of little children.
 

I agree that it should not even go as far as the NCAA. As others have said, this is not booster violations or academic fraud, so it is a bit beyond the NCAA --- it is much bigger than the NCAA.

If the board of regents at PSU are truly dedicated to changing the culture of Football-worship and Paterno-worship like they say they are, they need to abstain from football for a couple (or more) seasons, along with massive football scholarship reductions and post-season ineligibility to follow.

I agree with those who say that a culture of football-adoration enabled these crimes to take place. PSU needs to prove that they are still a hell of a fine institution even without football or Paterno. They will be a stain on the Big Ten if they play this fall. Let the current players keep their scholarships and let them transfer and not lose any eligibility.

As a diehard college football fan and person who loves my Alma Mater, I believe Penn State needs to go down hard so that people who are in charge at the University of Minnesota will not be tempted to take similar actions to what Paterno & Co did (God forbid they are put in a similar situation to begin with). This needs to be the one giant example so that nothing like this happens at my school.

Disclaimer: Stephen A Smith bugs the hell out of me, tremendously in fact, and it is only coincidental that we agree.

Oh, and +2 for station19.
 

Parski1 said:
I and many others agree with Stephan A Smith on this issue. He's telling it like it is. Just like you try to do Station 17. The Death Penalty is still not enough for a school that was raping and hiding the raping of little children.
Click to expand...

+1000...Sandusky was given a golden parachute in 1999 and after 2001 allegation continued access to his rape den i.e. Penn State locker room.

As of now the only consequence has been the replacement of four officials. They will still sell out games this fall. They are on pace to have a top 15 recruiting class. The University I believe just had its second best fundraising year on record!!!

There has been zero change to the culture of a university in relation to a football program whose importance facilitated the rape of children.
 

Parski1 said:
I and many others agree with Stephan A Smith on this issue. He's telling it like it is. Just like you try to do Station 17. The Death Penalty is still not enough for a school that was raping and hiding the raping of little children.
Click to expand...

Now that hurt.
 


station19 said:
So now we are comparing the authority and the duty of the NCAA to the Nuremberg trials. That's a part of the problem-people placing too much importance on the NCAA and sports.

The American Judicial system is the body that is in charge of these crimes against society.

If it is found that Penn State committed NCAA infractions they then should be punished by said body at that time. Until that time, this is criminal, civil and moral issue-not a sports issue.
Click to expand...


Not a sports issue! You really do have problems with cognitive dissonance. You obviously can't handle the scale of Nuremberg and how many of the trials were not about genocide, but simple matters like overlooking acts of pedophilia. Nuremberg is the script for the unwritten rule of law. Not everything needs to be written down to be understood as a crime. Not everything has to be covered under the aegis of sport to be in the jurisdiction of the NCAA when it comes to its body of work and the expectations of the behavior of its members. That idea may be a burden on the feeble minded, but don't worry, those of us that can handle the nuances that guide universal moral certainties don't need your approval to make those connections.

The list of people that understand the connections right now are the head of the NCAA and sports writers all over this country that are calling on the NCAA to do its duty and put the death penalty on Penn State University. That is just the short and obvious list. Others have been Congressmen and women. Ohio State got penalized for kids selling their jerseys. By your logic, that was not football related.

19, we have had our differences and we will continue our differences. You are sadly mistaken if you think the NCAA has no standing in the Sandusky mess. It does. It has a duty to act. It doesn't need to have something written down to act. They fall into that grand category of inalienable rights, the rights that are so numerous, so well known, and so universal as to not need to be written down. If that falls outside of your comfort zone, too effing bad. I feel bad for how shallow your comprehension of the issue remains.

The NCAA needs to impose the death penalty on Penn State U, including penalizing the innocent. Nobody is forcing these football players to remain at PSU. Nobody is forcing PSU fans to not become fans somewhere else. Nobody is truly penalized except an institution that turned its back on the victims of Sandusky. And, for that future player who dreamed of playing for PSU, too effing bad. There are other places to dream about. They are not really paying a price for being denied a dream. They are being handed a good life lesson. Be flexible in how you achieve your dreams. Be resilient.
 

MrGopher said:
I agree that it should not even go as far as the NCAA. As others have said, this is not booster violations or academic fraud, so it is a bit beyond the NCAA --- it is much bigger than the NCAA.

If the board of regents at PSU are truly dedicated to changing the culture of Football-worship and Paterno-worship like they say they are, they need to abstain from football for a couple (or more) seasons, along with massive football scholarship reductions and post-season ineligibility to follow.

I agree with those who say that a culture of football-adoration enabled these crimes to take place. PSU needs to prove that they are still a hell of a fine institution even without football or Paterno.
Click to expand...

I fully agree with this - in an ideal world Penn State would self-impose the death penalty for a year or two in repentance for the evil that has occurred on their watch. And it occurred absolutely because football was deemed THE most important thing at the University - more important than even the lives of children. But with the money involved, I'm not holding my breath for Penn State to do the right thing.

I respect GoAUpher's point about the rules and not wanting ad hoc rulemaking, but I disagree with him on this. I think that if Penn State elects to do nothing (or virtually nothing, like forgoing a few bowl games or whatever) then I think the NCAA should come down hard on them, because what happened at Penn State dwarfs any other scandal that has ever happened to trigger sanctions.

Listen, the bottom line for me is this - I don't really care about most NCAA violations. Oh, Terrelle Pryor made a few hundred bucks off some jerseys and Tressel covered it up? Who gives a rat's ass? The NCAA has rules, and so they punish for when you break the rules, and I understand why they do it - because if they didn't everyone would just flagrantly break the rules and it'd get out of control. But I don't really care about these infractions themselves - I love college football and I try not to think of all the sleazy, barely legal stuff that goes on - the "student-athletes" who major in basketball coaching theory and whose tutors write all their papers. So they get a phony degree? I don't care, that "student-athlete" would otherwise be wasting his life playing Xbox and so if they now are wasting their life playing football because a University is using it's clout to shelter them, well then so what? But when that same clout means that truly criminal behavior is covered up - and not just any criminal behavior, but almost the worst possible variety of criminal behavior rape of children - and not an isolated incident or two, but years and years and decades? If you won't punish for that abuse of power, then I don't feel you should punish for anything. Everything else pales in comparison.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom