Twins/Vikings/Wild/Wolves Championship appearance drought tracker

[Ope3]

@Ope3 I refuse to believe that ownership groups hire GM/HC with the intent of purposefully F’ing the team up. They do their business thing, vet candidates, narrow down to short list, interview, make the best gut call.

There’s no way it can be luck alone that we have hired the wrong GM/HC over and over and over, as the main/only factor.

Nowhere did I say the Ownership groups were "purposefully" hiring the wrong management groups. Nonetheless, they have all hired failures to this point.

That's where the buck stops. Maybe some of the current regimes can get it done, but only time will tell.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Someone can correct my math, but I think we are already at 121:

-All four teams have ended their CY 2023 seasons.

-The Twins won the last CY season in 1991.

-1992-2023 is 32 years. 32 x 4 = 128.

There was no hockey team for the 1994-2000 seasons (7 years). 128-7 is 121, not 120.

I believe I did the original math so unless someone checked my work, it's possible (and likely) that I messed up something.

 

[howeda7]

I believe I did the original math so unless someone checked my work, it's possible (and likely) that I messed up something.

No I think MPLS is right. You would also subtract 1 for the 1994 MLB season so that would make it 120. Wasn't really thinking of that.

 

[howeda7]

There was no NHL Season at all in 2004-05 due to labor strife.

1994 there was a MLB Season at least that the Twins participated in, though no Championship.

Hmm. Forgot about the NHL strike, I thought that was in the 90's. That would make the current # 119?

 

[Bad Gopher]

Status:

 

[howeda7]

To settle the math question:

Year	# of chances
1992	4
1993	4
1994	2	MLB strike, no NHL team
1995	3	No NHL team
1996	3	No NHL team
1997	3	No NHL team
1998	3	No NHL team
1999	3	No NHL team
2000	3	No NHL team
2001	4
2002	4
2003	4
2004	4
2005	3	NHL strike
2006	4
2007	4
2008	4
2009	4
2010	4
2011	4
2012	4
2013	4
2014	4
2015	4
2016	4
2017	4
2018	4
2019	4
2020	4
2021	4
2022	4
2023	4
Total	119

 

[tmvander]

To settle the math question:

Year	# of chances
1992	4
1993	4
1994	2	MLB strike, no NHL team
1995	3	No NHL team
1996	3	No NHL team
1997	3	No NHL team
1998	3	No NHL team
1999	3	No NHL team
2000	3	No NHL team
2001	4
2002	4
2003	4
2004	4
2005	3	NHL strike
2006	4
2007	4
2008	4
2009	4
2010	4
2011	4
2012	4
2013	4
2014	4
2015	4
2016	4
2017	4
2018	4
2019	4
2020	4
2021	4
2022	4
2023	4
Total	119

Can we pick and choose adding gopher sports not winning the big ten and make that number a monster?

 

[Ope3]

Hmm. Forgot about the NHL strike, I thought that was in the 90's. That would make the current # 119?

To settle the math question:

Year	# of chances
1992	4
1993	4
1994	2	MLB strike, no NHL team
1995	3	No NHL team
1996	3	No NHL team
1997	3	No NHL team
1998	3	No NHL team
1999	3	No NHL team
2000	3	No NHL team
2001	4
2002	4
2003	4
2004	4
2005	3	NHL strike
2006	4
2007	4
2008	4
2009	4
2010	4
2011	4
2012	4
2013	4
2014	4
2015	4
2016	4
2017	4
2018	4
2019	4
2020	4
2021	4
2022	4
2023	4
Total	119

Several pages back and years ago (sigh) I did break it down, and it does hinge on that 1994 MLB Season. The Number of Seasons will always be greater than the Number of Championships by 1.

The Mods seem to have landed on counting the 1994 Twins season, which seems correct by strict definition.

 

[howeda7]

Can we pick and choose adding gopher sports not winning the big ten and make that number a monster?

Joel Maturi will have you know all Gopher sports are equal and they have won lots of B1G titles!

 

[howeda7]

Several pages back and years ago (sigh) I did break it down, and it does hinge on that 1994 MLB Season. The Number of Seasons will always be greater than the Number of Championships by 1.

The Mods seem to have landed on counting the 1994 Twins season, which seems correct by strict definition.

The 1994 Twins may have been waiting in the weeds to rally and win one for Kent Hrbek though....

 

[Bad Gopher]

Several pages back and years ago (sigh) I did break it down, and it does hinge on that 1994 MLB Season. The Number of Seasons will always be greater than the Number of Championships by 1.

The Mods seem to have landed on counting the 1994 Twins season, which seems correct by strict definition.

I personally would exclude it. It seems unfair to dock a franchise for not achieving something that was ultimately unattainable and nonexistent.

 

[Iceland12]

Can we pick and choose adding gopher sports not winning the big ten and make that number a monster?

Just add the Lynx instead. They won it all in 2011, 2013, 2015 and 2017.

Ski U Mah Gopher noted that in the 2nd post in the thread.

 

[MplsGopher]

Makes no more sense to include the 1994 MLB playoffs as “missed” by the Twins than it does to say the Wild “missed” the 2004-05 NHL playoffs.

Nonsense

Correct number is 119.

Thanks to @howeda7 for the full accounting. Bleed should fix the Tweet

 

[MplsGopher]

@Ope3 you didn’t say it, I said it — because that’s the only way it makes any sense to blame collective ownership for the streak. Otherwise, makes no sense.

Certainly no chance that bad luck alone explains the whole mess. No way

 

[Ope3]

@Ope3 you didn’t say it, I said it — because that’s the only way it makes any sense to blame collective ownership for the streak. Otherwise, makes no sense.

Certainly no chance that bad luck alone explains the whole mess. No way

To clarify, I said Collective Ownership/Leadership is the #1 Reason. Not the ONLY reason.

 

[Ope3]

Makes no more sense to include the 1994 MLB playoffs as “missed” by the Twins than it does to say the Wild “missed” the 2004-05 NHL playoffs.

Nonsense

Correct number is 119.

Thanks to @howeda7 for the full accounting. Bleed should fix the Tweet

There is nothing that needs to be fixed in the Tweet/X.

Collectively there have been 120 Seasons played by MLB/NFL/NHL/NBA based Twin Cities franchises without a Championship appearance. Assuming the 2023 World Series will be contested, 119 of those Seasons had a Championship decided.

There was no 2004-05 NHL season. The Wild played 0 games.
There was a 1994 MLB season. The Twins played 113 games.

Personally, I don't care either way. Lowering the count by 1 doesn't provide any salve for the wound.

 

[MplsGopher]

Wrong. The Tweet is objectively incorrect.

It’s about how many championships have been missed, and there was none for MLB in 1994.

 

[MplsGopher]

#1 or only make the same no sense.

There’s no way that every ownership group over the four franchises since 1992 have screwed up that many consecutive hiring decisions.

By dumb luck they’d have to have landed on a good hire by now.

So that’s not the factor keeping us out.

 

[Ope3]

Wrong. The Tweet is objectively incorrect.

It’s about how many championships have been missed, and there was none for MLB in 1994.

Take it up with the Mods when the Vikings are eliminated around Thanksgiving time.

 

[Gophers1992]

Can we pick and choose adding gopher sports not winning the big ten and make that number a monster?

In that case the title drought goes all the way back to 2023.

 

[PhiloVance]

Thank God for the Lynx.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who?

 

[Ope3]

#1 or only make the same no sense.

That's a giant leap in logic. It can be many factors. I have stated my opinion what the #1 is. Go ahead and fill in the blanks on the next however many limitless reasons there are.

There’s no way that every ownership group over the four franchises since 1992 have screwed up that many consecutive hiring decisions.

By dumb luck they’d have to have landed on a good hire by now.

Nowhere did I say they have screwed up every hire. Some were good. Some were abysmal. Even good ones though may have had too long of a shelf life.

To get to a Championship the hire needs to be "great", better than "good".

So that’s not the factor keeping us out.

Again, never said it was "the factor keeping us out". No 12 men in the huddle nor Favre pick against New Orleans and the streak is likely over before getting near triple digits.

 

[MplsGopher]

I started it by saying there must be some factor (regardless how latent). You replied. You therefore were saying that your reply was the factor. That's how conversation works.

There have been 119 seasons now with no championship appearance. That's too long of a streak to be anything having to do just with bad luck.

It doesn't make sense for ownership bad hiring decisions to be the #1 factor (or the only factor). That doesn't work. With this long of timeframe, they would've hit on a "great" hire by now. And maybe KOC is, and just needs a few more seasons.

I can't ever see a low-budget team in MLB ever making the World Series beating out high-budget teams in that unfair league. Hat's off for what they accomplished this year. Other leagues are fair.

Hockey should be the one to do it. Would only be right. The sport I least care about, but so be it.

In this state, baseball is the least important sport. Truth. So only makes sense that that is the only sport that anyone outside this state knows us for doing anything.

 

[Ope3]

I started it by saying there must be some factor (regardless how latent). You replied. You therefore were saying that your reply was the factor. That's how conversation works.

There have been 119 seasons now with no championship appearance. That's too long of a streak to be anything having to do just with bad luck.

It doesn't make sense for ownership bad hiring decisions to be the #1 factor (or the only factor). That doesn't work. With this long of timeframe, they would've hit on a "great" hire by now. And maybe KOC is, and just needs a few more seasons.

I can't ever see a low-budget team in MLB ever making the World Series beating out high-budget teams in that unfair league. Hat's off for what they accomplished this year. Other leagues are fair.

Hockey should be the one to do it. Would only be right. The sport I least care about, but so be it.

In this state, baseball is the least important sport. Truth. So only makes sense that that is the only sport that anyone outside this state knows us for doing anything.

I only listed Ownership's management choices for brevity/time constraints. Obviously there are other factors, really infinite...missed FGs, injuries, running into a hot goalie.

Going back to 2004, no Minnesota team has one more than 1 playoff round or NFL game. 20 years. Only the Vikings have gotten 1 step away (twice). That's not bad luck.That's not having the proper management to aquire, develop, and keep talent.

It seems painfully obvious. It's on the Owners to get the right Presidents, Directors, GMs to in turn get the proper Coaches, Scouts, Trainers etc

Aside from that your MLB payroll comment is rather ill informed. Arizona this year ranks 21 in payroll and are 1 step away from getting to the WS. Not ancient history but fellow AL Central rival Kansas City, won it all in 2015. They ranked 16 that year in payroll. The 2023 Twins were 17th. It can be done.

The Orioles and Rays flopped in the playoffs but won 102 and 99 games respectively. Only the A's had a lower payroll.

Baseball is the least important sport in this state? Huh?!?!? It's #2. Not even close.

 

[MplsGopher]

Correct. In terms of total participation and how much people care about a sport overall, baseball is well after football, hockey, and basketball. Probably volleyball and soccer as well, when you factor in girl's/women's.

People pay attention to the Twins if they make the playoff, and that's great.

No one cares during the regular season. You can't even watch them on TV.

 

[Gophers1992]

I started it by saying there must be some factor (regardless how latent). You replied. You therefore were saying that your reply was the factor. That's how conversation works.

There have been 119 seasons now with no championship appearance. That's too long of a streak to be anything having to do just with bad luck.

It doesn't make sense for ownership bad hiring decisions to be the #1 factor (or the only factor). That doesn't work. With this long of timeframe, they would've hit on a "great" hire by now. And maybe KOC is, and just needs a few more seasons.

I can't ever see a low-budget team in MLB ever making the World Series beating out high-budget teams in that unfair league. Hat's off for what they accomplished this year. Other leagues are fair.

Hockey should be the one to do it. Would only be right. The sport I least care about, but so be it.

In this state, baseball is the least important sport. Truth. So only makes sense that that is the only sport that anyone outside this state knows us for doing anything.

You are aware that the Kansas City Royals have a world series win in the last 10 years, correct?

 

[Ope3]

Correct. In terms of total participation and how much people care about a sport overall, baseball is well after football, hockey, and basketball. Probably volleyball and soccer as well, when you factor in girl's/women's.

People pay attention to the Twins if they make the playoff, and that's great.

No one cares during the regular season. You can't even watch them on TV.

The Twins average per game attendance dwarfs both the Wolves and Wild. Larger capacity sure (and more cost affordable), but it's also rare for the Wolves to have a sellout and Wild usually have plenty of tix available.

1,974,124 Twins ticket buyers in the regular season is a lot of "non-no ones". They should easily get back to pre-Pandemic levels next year of well over 2,000,000.

The Wild/Wolves also for the most part have the same TV issues and the less robust Radio/Audio network than the Twins.

I could see an argument even as late as this spring that either/both were at least in the neighborhood of taking the mantle as 2nd banana to the Vikes. I think the rule changes MLB implemented really had a huge impact and even moderate on field success really stemmed the tide.

As Boomers and Gen Xer age out, I could see a day where if the Wolves got there act together they could be #2. They could also move out of this market if they don't find an arena solution. Quite a lot unknowns with a new ownership group, assuming the deal ever gets done.

 

[Ope3]

You are aware that the Kansas City Royals have a world series win in the last 10 years, correct?

Also since the thread is just about getting to the Championship, other similar or even way less in terms of Market/Payroll examples are 2016 Cleveland and 2020 Tampa Bay in the last decade. Both of those teams made it to the WS and pushed it to 7 and 6 games respectively.

KC also got there twice!

 

[Ope3]

On this Day in Twins History, a rather historic event happened, with regards to this thread. On the heels of the North Stars appearing in the Stanley Cup earlier in the spring of 1991, the Twins kept the board at zero.

American League Pennent was clinched in Toronto on 10/13/1991.


Here we are waiting for the next one 120 seasons later.

 

[MplsGopher]

I knew you were talking about tickets sold of Twins vs Wolves/Wild to support your claim of #2, even though it was fairly obvious I wasn't talking about that at all.


I was getting at that the Twins are the only one of the four to even have done anything to put Minnesota on a map in the last three decades ... the sport of baseball itself, overall, is way down in importance to the people of Minnesota. Hockey, football, basketball, and I'd wager others, are (far) more important overall to the families and people of this state.

It should be hockey. That should be our thing. Gophers do their part, but sad that Wild haven't even made it yet.