Twins/Vikings/Wild/Wolves Championship appearance drought tracker

Donate To GopherHole


Really, Bleed? You can't wait until the end of the game (or series) to pull up this thread? You might as well make it 121 as the Vikes aren't making it this year. Heck, let's call the Wolves and Wild out of it already... They most certainly will increase the total to 123!
 


'Sota Sweep complete

2022-2023 sports year, all four MN professional franchises make it to the playoff and lose their first legitimate game (NFL) or series (NBA/NHL/MLB).

(legitimate series means a best of 5 or 7 with games played at both teams home venue)
 


MplsGopher said:
'Sota Sweep complete

2022-2023 sports year, all four MN professional franchises make it to the playoff and lose their first legitimate game (NFL) or series (NBA/NHL/MLB).

(legitimate series means a best of 5 or 7 with games played at both teams home venue)
Click to expand...
By this foolish logic. the Vikings game doesn't count either. Just stop. The Twins won a series. Sorry you don't like it.
 



A best of one can’t alternate home between ie and isn’t a series. NFL has never done series. Nonsequitor
 



The Twins WC series win is only the 3rd playoff round advanced by a Minnesota team not named the Lynx or Vikings since the Wolves' 2004 WCF.
 

There has to be a bias against Minnesota that isn't being thought of or accounted for.

I wonder if it's something like this:

free-agents are slightly less willing to sign with MN teams, because they just don't want to be in MN. Weather, culture, something else (harsh fans?). Just plain don't want to be here. Will sign with another franchise at even or slightly less value, to go to a city they more prefer.


Talking small bias here, very difficult to perceive in any particular instance (year). But over a long enough timescale, starts to rear its ugly head ...


Obviously rookies (in draft systems) don't have that choice. But you can't get to the championships with rookies alone.
 

^^ of course, that kind of thing should be completely negated, maybe even reversed, in hockey.

It shouldn't be able to explain our NHL drought.
 

MplsGopher said:
There has to be a bias against Minnesota that isn't being thought of or accounted for.

I wonder if it's something like this:

free-agents are slightly less willing to sign with MN teams, because they just don't want to be in MN. Weather, culture, something else (harsh fans?). Just plain don't want to be here. Will sign with another franchise at even or slightly less value, to go to a city they more prefer.


Talking small bias here, very difficult to perceive in any particular instance (year). But over a long enough timescale, starts to rear its ugly head ...


Obviously rookies (in draft systems) don't have that choice. But you can't get to the championships with rookies alone.
Click to expand...
mmmm I don't know if it's 100% true...for the Twins you could maybe make that argument but it's based on $ as other teams just can offer more. But even with that in play we've still signed guys like Josh Donaldson, Carlos Correa x2, Nelson Cruz, Ervin Santana (when he was decent).

The Vikings have one of the highest payrolls in the NFL. They've signed all sorts of good free agents depending on positions of need.

The NBA is different because you only need to have a few superstars on a team and they all just go to 5-6 teams. But even there you're looking at Milwaukee be a top team for the past half decade + and that isn't any different than Minneapolis.

I think it's about finding the right free agents, drafting well, coaching, health, and luck that have doomed our MN teams not necessarily just free agency.
 



GopherRock said:
The Twins WC series win is only the 3rd playoff round advanced by a Minnesota team not named the Lynx or Vikings since the Wolves' 2004 WCF.
Click to expand...
Discounting the 1 and done nature of the NFL, the Twins got as close to the Championship round as the 2014 Wild, 6 Ws away.

Before that, have to go back to 2004 when the Twins were also 6 Ws away and the Wolves only 2 Ws short.

2003 Wild were just 4 Ws shy.
2002 Twins were within 3 Ws.
 





@tmvander great comments.

Milwaukee basketball. They drafted the Greek Freak. He wasn’t allowed to say “no, I don’t want to go to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, I want to go to LA or Miami or …”.

Ended up being a grand slam and they’re paying him and they win so I guess he is content being there.


So one thing I was thinking about when I wrote this is Dam Lillard. Knew very little other than at one point earlier there was buzz about him coming here, but it was said he wanted to be in Miami, etc. We’ll now I just looked and lo and behold he went to Milwaukee.

Was that because the Eastern is easier and he’d be playing alongside the Greek?


Million factors, like you said. We have signed some free-agents, like you said.


But I don’t think we know every example of where a guy just flatly told our GMs “no thanks, I have no interest in even considering Minnesota”.
 

MplsGopher said:
@tmvander great comments.

Milwaukee basketball. They drafted the Greek Freak. He wasn’t allowed to say “no, I don’t want to go to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, I want to go to LA or Miami or …”.

Ended up being a grand slam and they’re paying him and they win so I guess he is content being there.


So one thing I was thinking about when I wrote this is Dam Lillard. Knew very little other than at one point earlier there was buzz about him coming here, but it was said he wanted to be in Miami, etc. We’ll now I just looked and lo and behold he went to Milwaukee.

Was that because the Eastern is easier and he’d be playing alongside the Greek?


Million factors, like you said. We have signed some free-agents, like you said.


But I don’t think we know every example of where a guy just flatly told our GMs “no thanks, I have no interest in even considering Minnesota”.
Click to expand...
Lillard is in Milwaukee because Portland determined that was the best return they could get so they traded him there. Not a Free Agent.
 

Not that simple, obviously, or no one would have even been talking about how he wanted to go XYZ. They were talking about it, so it could have mattered more than zero.
 

MplsGopher said:
Not that simple, obviously, or no one would have even been talking about how he wanted to go XYZ. They were talking about it, so it could have mattered more than zero.
Click to expand...
In the end it was that simple, he said "please send me to Miami". They said no deal, not good enough of a return, "you're going to Milwaukee."
 

It mattered, because they would’ve gotten a better return sending him here but he refused to come here. Prove me wrong. Agree to disagree.

Probably many other examples, and probably a lot of those we never get to know about.

Maybe the idea is dead wrong, could easily be.


Just think if you grade each market that has say at least two franchises in the main four on things like number of playoffs made and number of playoff rounds advanced (you could say if they automatically got placed in the bracket beyond the first that that counts as an “advance”) ….. normalizing for number of franchises in the market ….we’ve got to be sitting near the bottom or dead last.

As we know all too well from last year, a great regular season gets thrown in the trash if you don’t do jack in the playoffs.


There has to be other factors with small biases that can’t be perceived year to year but become perceptible on long timescales (like 120 seasons!!).

Can’t just be luck to happen over and over and over.
 

MplsGopher said:
It mattered, because they would’ve gotten a better return sending him here but he refused to come here. Prove me wrong. Agree to disagree.

Probably many other examples, and probably a lot of those we never get to know about.

Maybe the idea is dead wrong, could easily be.


Just think if you grade each market that has say at least two franchises in the main four on things like number of playoffs made and number of playoff rounds advanced (you could say if they automatically got placed in the bracket beyond the first that that counts as an “advance”) ….. normalizing for number of franchises in the market ….we’ve got to be sitting near the bottom or dead last.

As we know all too well from last year, a great regular season gets thrown in the trash if you don’t do jack in the playoffs.


There has to be other factors with small biases that can’t be perceived year to year but become perceptible on long timescales (like 120 seasons!!).

Can’t just be luck to happen over and over and over.
Click to expand...
Regarding Lilliard, I do agree to disagree. On a radio interview, it sounded like he had no idea that was a possibility. He thought his agent was kidding with him when being informed of the deal.

As for the 120 seasons, the #1 reason (in my opinion) for the failure is the Ownership groups have not hired the proper management groups to make it happen. Some local franchises have had multiple Ownership groups during this epic run of failure.
 

Someone can correct my math, but I think we are already at 121:

-All four teams have ended their CY 2023 seasons.

-The Twins won the last CY season in 1991.

-1992-2023 is 32 years. 32 x 4 = 128.

There was no hockey team for the 1994-2000 seasons (7 years). 128-7 is 121, not 120.
 

MplsGopher said:
There has to be a bias against Minnesota that isn't being thought of or accounted for.

I wonder if it's something like this:

free-agents are slightly less willing to sign with MN teams, because they just don't want to be in MN. Weather, culture, something else (harsh fans?). Just plain don't want to be here. Will sign with another franchise at even or slightly less value, to go to a city they more prefer.


Talking small bias here, very difficult to perceive in any particular instance (year). But over a long enough timescale, starts to rear its ugly head ...


Obviously rookies (in draft systems) don't have that choice. But you can't get to the championships with rookies alone.
Click to expand...
That's true of any small market. It's harder to get FAs. It doesn't fully explain the ineptitude unique to Minnesota sports.
 



@Ope3 I refuse to believe that ownership groups hire GM/HC with the intent of purposefully F’ing the team up. They do their business thing, vet candidates, narrow down to short list, interview, make the best gut call.

There’s no way it can be luck alone that we have hired the wrong GM/HC over and over and over, as the main/only factor.
 

howeda7 said:
Someone can correct my math, but I think we are already at 121:

-All four teams have ended their CY 2023 seasons.

-The Twins won the last CY season in 1991.

-1992-2023 is 32 years. 32 x 4 = 128.

There was no hockey team for the 1994-2000 seasons (7 years). 128-7 is 121, not 120.
Click to expand...
MplsGopher said:
No MLB postseason in 94
Click to expand...
howeda7 said:
True I guess. The Twins were like 15 games under .500 when the strike occurred but technically they weren't officially eliminated.
Click to expand...
There was no NHL Season at all in 2004-05 due to labor strife.

1994 there was a MLB Season at least that the Twins participated in, though no Championship.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom