Time to Change the Culture

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Pompous Elitist said:
In a nutshell, the team played a woeful slate of opponents and when adjusted for opponent the advanced stats are not kind vs the past few years. The team has absolutely regressed on an aggregate scale and we are near the bottom in some categories. Mitch has had, possibly, a historically bad year in terms of TD:INT and INTs per attempt, for example but I'm too tired to look it up. Still have a game to go.

Feel free to look at the S&P+ and FEI numbers: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa

Here is the Minnesota 2016 profile in more depth. You can google search for prior years if you like. http://www.footballstudyhall.com/pages/2016-minnesota-advanced-statistical-profile
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Regressed by winning more games. Gotcha!
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
By "hard", he meant dumb. It would be really dumb.
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It would be a calculated risk. Maybe dumb, maybe not and only knowable in hindsight. Would it be foolish to only change coaches if the team has hit rock bottom, with a year or two of poor recruiting classes, and having to pay an increased buyout to boot? This is the pattern where rebuilding tends to take a very long time.

Or, would it be smart to fish for a successful up and comer that would generate buzz, hopefully recruit well, and take over a team with many talented pieces?
 


This defense was stellar this year, but the team was let down by Mitch and the coaching staff that steadfastly beveled in him the last 3 years. That belief needs to be scrutinized and in my opinion vigorously.

It may be fine for some of the long time fans, and many on this site included, to play like we have this year, but it obviously is not enough for most of this market to care.

Please explain how former DC and current HC Tracy Claeys has anything to do with the "staff that steadfastly beveled in him the last 3 years" since Claeys got rid of the old regime. I did not like the results of the change, in the short term, but at least he tried to change what was not working.

Mitch played because the new OC and staff saw what they had to work with was not so great. OK, sorry you're right fire TC.
 


With the easiest schedule the Gophers will EVER have Claeys managed to win the bare minimum (8) number of games needed to keep his job. He won those games with his predecessor's recruits. He has shown no indication that he can recruit at all, his recruiting class is bottom of the barrel. Hard for me to see how replacing him with an experienced head coach would be a step back. We very much look like we are in for a Helferichesque slide as Kill's players matriculate.
 

oak_street1981 said:
Humor, yes, I know, I think Claeys might be a better HC that Charlie Strong. With all the talent on the Texas Roster, to put up a record like Strong has in 3 years, you have to be poor HC. Strong might be a good defensive mind, like Claeys, but he is very shaky as HC.

I think Glen Caruso (and also Glen Mason) would probably win big at Texas almost immediately. They are sort of like Gopher Hockey used to be, in that they pretty much get every great player they want, and if they don't plan B is almost as good.
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You mean this Charlie Strong?
 

Mick Turition said:
With the easiest schedule the Gophers will EVER have Claeys managed to win the bare minimum (8) number of games needed to keep his job. He won those games with his predecessor's recruits. He has shown no indication that he can recruit at all, his recruiting class is bottom of the barrel. Hard for me to see how replacing him with an experienced head coach would be a step back. We very much look like we are in for a Helferichesque slide as Kill's players matriculate.
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Players came here because of coach Kill and their belief in him that he could make them better players and men. I don't see that same affection and affinity in coach Claeys, I just don't. He may be a smart guy and good at X's and O's but he connects with people like dry toast's. I think a new head coach can take this program further with the Kill recruited players, and recruit better than coach Claey's in my opinion. When I watch how he interacts, I just don't see the "it". Coach Kill had a personality people were drawn too. Claey's seems distant, I am basing this on how the games played out late last year and this year and the melt downs in second halfs. I don't think being bottom of the Big 10 in recruiting will improve under coach Claey's, he doesn't have the personality even in the media that draws people in, and say's yeah I want to run through a wall for that guy or go play for that coach.
I don't think he has what it takes to be a winning long time coach in the Big 10. This season is the peak of what this head coach can do in the Big 10. I have changed my mind, and continuing down this path will lead to worsening attendance and game play.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Wow, I had you pegged as one of the smarter guys here.

Are you serious?
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Completely serious.

I understand how these metrics work. They just aren't applicable. They make sense when you're trying to predict a game or bet on it. But not when judging a team's performance over the course of year.

We were a 6-6 football team last season and we are 8-4 this season. That's really the only thing that matters.

For example, last year's Iowa team ran the table before the Big 10 championship. They were a 12-0 team. Do I think there were 9-3 teams that I would think were actually better, sure. However, Iowa won 12 football games last year.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
Completely serious.

I understand how these metrics work. They just aren't applicable. They make sense when you're trying to predict a game or bet on it. But not when judging a team's performance over the course of year.

We were a 6-6 football team last season and we are 8-4 this season. That's really the only thing that matters.

For example, last year's Iowa team ran the table before the Big 10 championship. They were a 12-0 team. Do I think there were 9-3 teams that I would think were actually better, sure. However, Iowa won 12 football games last year.
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It may not matter to you but I can assure you schedule matters to many here. There is a reason before every season fans look at the schedule and think this might be the year or it might be a very rough year. There is a reason coaches that win games they aren't supposed to win are lauded and teams that go 8-3 can barely even sniff the top 25.

There is a reason a 12 win Iowa got their butts kicked around the Rose Bowl last year; they were horribly overrated and building a 12 win season on a soft schedule and a lot of luck doesn't impress everyone. The difference between a 12 win Iowa and an 8 win Minnesota is that they won a few they probably shouldn't have and we failed to do that. We also dropped one or two or three we could have and should have won.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
Players came here because of coach Kill and their belief in him that he could make them better players and men. I don't see that same affection and affinity in coach Claeys, I just don't. He may be a smart guy and good at X's and O's but he connects with people like dry toast's. I think a new head coach can take this program further with the Kill recruited players, and recruit better than coach Claey's in my opinion. When I watch how he interacts, I just don't see the "it". Coach Kill had a personality people were drawn too. Claey's seems distant, I am basing this on how the games played out late last year and this year and the melt downs in second halfs. I don't think being bottom of the Big 10 in recruiting will improve under coach Claey's, he doesn't have the personality even in the media that draws people in, and say's yeah I want to run through a wall for that guy or go play for that coach.
I don't think he has what it takes to be a winning long time coach in the Big 10. This season is the peak of what this head coach can do in the Big 10. I have changed my mind, and continuing down this path will lead to worsening attendance and game play.
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Some of our better FR signed post-Kill last year:
Antoine Winfield
Tyler Johnson
Kiandre Thomas
Tayon Dievers
For the rankingophiles - Seth Green and Coney Durr were after Kill resigned.

When you're at a lesser program, you know it's going to be somewhat of a crapshoot with the next coach. Look at the difficulty Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Maryland, and Rutgers are having of being at our current level. It's not easy to win at a non-top tier Big 10 school. Are you willing to bet that we will get someone who will do a better job than the current staff?
 


I wouldn't be surprised if any new HC kept some or all of the defensive staff. This staff has out-performed in a major way, without benefit of a decent offense. If Claeys keeps Johnson and he's able to develop an even average offense we should be winning many games even in average years schedule-wise.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
It may not matter to you but I can assure you schedule matters to many here. There is a reason before every season fans look at the schedule and think this might be the year or it might be a very rough year. There is a reason coaches that win games they aren't supposed to win are lauded and teams that go 8-3 can barely even sniff the top 25.

There is a reason a 12 win Iowa got their butts kicked around the Rose Bowl last year; they were horribly overrated and building a 12 win season on a soft schedule and a lot of luck doesn't impress everyone. The difference between a 12 win Iowa and an 8 win Minnesota is that they won a few they probably shouldn't have and we failed to do that. We also dropped one or two or three we could have and should have won.
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So you would have rather have gone 7-5 and lost a decently close game to Michigan than to have squeeked by Rutgers? I would think that Claeys did about as well as most people thought this year. I'd guess 8-4 was the most common prediction (I can't find the beginnning of the season poll)


That overrated Iowa team still played in the Rose Bowl. They still played in the Big 10 Championship game. Who are you looking to impress? Aren't you just wanting to cheer for a winning team? Iowa fans, who understood they weren't a dominant 12 win team, I'm sure had a great time last year. They got to go to Indy and the Rose Bowl.

To me, it seems absolutely delusional to be talking about HOW a team goes to the Rose Bowl. We aren't Ohio State or Michigan
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I wouldn't be surprised if any new HC kept some or all of the defensive staff. This staff has out-performed in a major way, without benefit of a decent offense. If Claeys keeps Johnson and he's able to develop an even average offense we should be winning many games even in average years schedule-wise.
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Our offensive problems are an issue. No doubt.

I just have a really hard time blaming Johnson (or even Claeys) for us not having a QB and having poor WRs.

I don't think any of us really know a whole lot about Johnson. Being an offensive coordinator without Leidner and receivers who do not get open probably isn't the easiest thing in the world.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
So you would have rather have gone 7-5 and lost a decently close game to Michigan than to have squeeked by Rutgers? I would think that Claeys did about as well as most people thought this year. I'd guess 8-4 was the most common prediction (I can't find the beginnning of the season poll)


That overrated Iowa team still played in the Rose Bowl. They still played in the Big 10 Championship game. Who are you looking to impress? Aren't you just wanting to cheer for a winning team? Iowa fans, who understood they weren't a dominant 12 win team, I'm sure had a great time last year. They got to go to Indy and the Rose Bowl.

To me, it seems absolutely delusional to be talking about HOW a team goes to the Rose Bowl. We aren't Ohio State or Michigan
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I'd want to see signs the team is getting better. The goal ultimately is to win championships, not slide by a weak schedule, is it not? Playing tough and narrowly losing to Michigan vs playing sloppy vs a horrendous Rutgers team in a 2 pt victory in a mediocre season is a wash for me.

And you're wrong about Iowa fans, they did think they were a dominant team.

Ultimately, like a lot of us here, I think we ride with Claeys unless we have someone in Coyle's pocket. There is always hope.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
2014: Won the jug by 16, won the pig by 37, beat Nebraska, lost the axe by 4 fewer points, finished 2nd in the B1G west.
2016: Lost the bell, lost the pig, lost to Nebraska, lost by 4 more points to Wisconsin, finished 4th in the B1G west.

It does seem logical.

Edit: I missed you said 2013, but I don't remember people saying Kill was god after that year. 2014 was the year everyone was excited.
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Oh. So you're saying the team changed quarterbacks and actually improved from 2013 to 2014? I was under the assumption that was not possible.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Has the program regressing based on what? He's already tied Jerry Kill's best win total at Minnesota and can eclipse it with a bowl game win. He's the first first-year coach at Minnesota to go above .500 in the Big Ten since John Gutekunst in 1986. He's won 8 (potentially 9) when Vegas said we'd win 6. How is any of that regressing?
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Progress is not what it used to be is it. I will be looking forward to more elbow room next year when there are 25,000 people at the games.

Go Gophers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
At some point during the season all of our losses were teams ranked in the top 13 teams in the country. Yes I would have loves to have won a couple of them, but this wasn't Kansas we were losing to. They were all top teams in the country! We are close and getting closer!
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...and 3 of the 4 were on the road.
 

Claeys will get next year and he should. Probably even get an extension even if just for show. The problem he has is not winning one game this season that generated any interest for the program going forward. With home game attendance being an issue I would guess he needs to win some interest generating games next year or he won't be the head coach in 2018.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
2013 Gopher Football, 8 wins, beats Nebraska, 4 double digit losses=Kill is God.
2016 Gopher Football, 8 wins, no big wins, 1 double digit loss=fire the coach.

Seems logical.
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Pretty convenient how you left 2014 out. Claeys himself said this was the most talented team since he's been here with the easiest schedule.


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dpodoll68 said:
Has the program regressing based on what? He's already tied Jerry Kill's best win total at Minnesota and can eclipse it with a bowl game win. He's the first first-year coach at Minnesota to go above .500 in the Big Ten since John Gutekunst in 1986. He's won 8 (potentially 9) when Vegas said we'd win 6. How is any of that regressing?
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Seems to me a lot of people are doing a fine job of explaining it for me. I would just add in that the recruiting class is a tad worse (this is called being facetious) than the last 2 years, attendance is way down, enthusiasm is way down, and then see the multiple other posts for more reasons. Other than that the program seems to be in fine shape and getting better every day. Lastly, the way our offense reacts to defensive adjustments has been outstanding! As we all know, games are won in the first quarter, not the 4th! You could maybe even argue Sawvel is a better D coordinator than Claeys. Oh no! He didn't say that!!!!


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Some Day...Is Coming! said:
Seems to me a lot of people are doing a fine job of explaining it for me. I would just add in that the recruiting class is a tad worse (this is called being facetious) than the last 2 years, attendance is way down, enthusiasm is way down, and then see the multiple other posts for more reasons. Other than that the program seems to be in fine shape and getting better every day. Lastly, the way our offense reacts to defensive adjustments has been outstanding! As we all know, games are won in the first quarter, not the 4th! You could maybe even argue Sawvel is a better D coordinator than Claeys. Oh no! He didn't say that!!!!


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You have zero idea how the recruiting is going. The class isn't complete, not to mention that none of the players have seen the field. None of the last few classes have looked great on paper, and yet the Gophers have been putting players into the NFL at a rate we haven't seen in a while. The last class was typically Minnesotan at best and produced probably the best group of true freshmen we've seen in a long time.
With the home schedule and the price increases this year, attendance would've been way down even if Kill had remained. Of course, you find it convenient to blame that on Claeys. Who cares about enthusiasm? I care about winning football games. I'm going to love it when we win the bowl game and Claeys has the most wins in a season since 2003. I will enjoy reading all of the excuses about how such a horrible and unthinkable thing could happen.
 

I actually like Cleays. I think it's a safe and defendable move to give him a chance.

However, I have to say I think a culture change is what this programs needs. We aren't in terrible shape, we have a decent foundation and a set of facilities on the way. But, we are still trapped in a "here we go again" mindset. As a fanbase and a team (including the coaching staff).

I'd look for a coach with an outsized / optimistic personality in addition to coaching credibility. We really need something to rally around and that must start with the head coach. Honestly, I think Kill was getting there through his highly visible relationship with the kids.

For what it's worth, id also turnover our game day ops. We need a college game day feel. I think we've tried to simulate a pro experience and it seems fake (piped in music, cheesy announcer guy, graphics on the big board). If we try to compete with the local pro market, we'll lose. We have to distinguish the experience. Let the band / students build a game day identity, this will promote a deeper and longer lasting affiliation among the graduating classes and the community.

To the AD and admin, I'll get my coat ... DM me if you'd like more :).
 

Torres9 said:
For what it's worth, id also turnover our game day ops. We need a college game day feel. I think we've tried to simulate a pro experience and it seems fake (piped in music, cheesy announcer guy, graphics on the big board). If we try to compete with the local pro market, we'll lose. We have to distinguish the experience.
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I love this comment.

This is one area where college football has the potential to actually beat the NFL, game day experience.
 

stevedave23 said:
I love this comment.

This is one area where college football has the potential to actually beat the NFL, game day experience.
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The announcer is terrible. Other schools have pepfests before the game in their arena. With the Williams and Mariucci right across the street this could work but I cannot imagine anyone going. We have been down for so long that the disconnect will be hard to repair.

Go Gophers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

BleedGopher said:
Texas hired their coach the same day they fired their coach. Their school is just as big as ours, how come they don't have the same red tape restrictions and process needs we do?

Go Gophers!!
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Because they want to win in their big time sports. MN worries about everything else first - then winning.
 

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