This isn't going as planned

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this is turning into a competition of "who can be the most negative/pessimistic about Gopher Hoops."

The way things are going, I expect to come on here soon and find out that Ben Johnson is teaching CRT in local high schools, or Dave Thorson has pulled the Jan Ganglehoff term paper out of storage. that is about the only way things could get more negative.

the in-game threads next season could be epic.

Everyone has a choice. No one is forcing you to follow Gopher basketball or comment on Gopher basketball.

it's like going to a restaurant and getting a bad meal, so you spend the next six months posting negative reviews of that restaurant on line. at some point, maybe you should just walk away and leave it alone.
 

Keyser Söze said:
I'm fine with being awful next season as long as the following two things are true:

1. The team consistently plays smart, team basketball with a lot of effort
2. We get a really promising 2022 class

Both of those two things are very much still possible. Having a terrible record in year 1 does not necessarily mean the future isn't bright.
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I try to talk myself into this all the time and I just can't seem to. When the Wolves/Vikings/Twins are awful I can talk myself into the draft and hey we might find a guy who changes the franchise! For college it just feels like such an endless nightmare, teams who bottom out that bad seem to take years (decades!) to rebound. I am trying to just talk myself into us being Baylor, from 2003 to 2007 they won 36 games and were about the worst P5 team out there, well Drew still had a top 10 recruiting last in 2005 and used that to slowly build and now look at them!

That said, everyone who just gets irate any time someone says something negative, I dont understand. I dont think having a truly dreadful 1-3 years is something we should accept either. So those of us that are having a tough time with the thought of a few 6-26ish type seasons, its ok. We love this program and want it to succeed too, just tougher pill to swallow for some. I live and die with every game, so knowing its likely going to be 2-3 (more?) years to MAYBE be a good program is not an enjoyable experience. Just some thoughts from someone that has not been super enthused thus far.
 


Coyle made his choice. It was extremely questionable. And if it crashes and burns hopefully we won't let it drag on longer than necessary. But we're at least 2 years from anything changing. Until then, hope for the best.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
this is turning into a competition of "who can be the most negative/pessimistic about Gopher Hoops."

The way things are going, I expect to come on here soon and find out that Ben Johnson is teaching CRT in local high schools, or Dave Thorson has pulled the Jan Ganglehoff term paper out of storage. that is about the only way things could get more negative.

the in-game threads next season could be epic.

Everyone has a choice. No one is forcing you to follow Gopher basketball or comment on Gopher basketball.

it's like going to a restaurant and getting a bad meal, so you spend the next six months posting negative reviews of that restaurant on line. at some point, maybe you should just walk away and leave it alone.
Click to expand...
Yeah there are a lot of extremely short-sighted people on the board who are way too eager to call this thing a failure. Sometimes successful coaches and programs have bad seasons in year 1. Get over it.

I'd rather our coach focus on getting players who fit what he wants to do even if he has to sacrifice some talent in year one (since there was an extremely shallow pool to choose from), than just mindlessly grab as much talent as possible and figure out how everyone fits later. I think focusing on the right fit is going to have more long term success.

There are enough uncommitted players in 2022 where he should be able to find some players who are both culture/system fits and have high level talent. That's when we will have the chance to turn things around. If the 2022 class ends up terrible, then I'll join people in their state of panic.
 


Keyser Söze said:
There are enough uncommitted players in 2022 where he should be able to find some players who are both culture/system fits and have high level talent. That's when we will have the chance to turn things around. If the 2022 class ends up terrible, then I'll join people in their state of panic.
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Absolutely. Majority of their top priorities right now are still uncommitted. The coaches are all out watching them this weekend - going from gym to gym across many states. I have faith it will pay off.
 



Gopherfan1000 said:
Ben has done nothing to convince the top tier MN recruits and transfers from other schools to even consider coming home to play the upcoming season/or start a collegiate career with him at Minnesota. I know it's early, very early, but this is not looking good. This team is going to be epically/ if not historically awful for 2-3 seasons. I don't know anything about Ben or his coaching, but his recruiting is off to a very mediocre start.

Where are we at for recruits in 2022-2023? Nobody good seems to be considering playing with him at Minnesota and we are 4 months in.

I will use the phrase mediocre, because every coach since Clem, has been very mediocre at Minnesota. I mean he's going to be coaching a team of scrubs this coming year. I won't judge his coaching or him after 1 season, but I am epically concerned about this program's future. If we win 6 total games this year and next. I will be impressed. I am smelling an 0'fer in Big 10 play this season. Not much better on the horizon.

Sorry to vent. I hope I am wrong. This program is giving me zero excitement.

Even Pitino snagged a good player from ASU to come play with him at NM and our best potential player Mashburn followed. Should have just rode the wave with Pitino one more year opposed to hiring a guy with zero coaching experience and a mediocre track record at Xavier. Ugh.

I wish Gopher football could play two seasons!
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Wrong - has interest from many 2022 and 2023 recruits.
 

Keyser Söze said:
Yeah there are a lot of extremely short-sighted people on the board who are way too eager to call this thing a failure. Sometimes successful coaches and programs have bad seasons in year 1. Get over it.

I'd rather our coach focus on getting players who fit what he wants to do even if he has to sacrifice some talent in year one (since there was an extremely shallow pool to choose from), than just mindlessly grab as much talent as possible and figure out how everyone fits later. I think focusing on the right fit is going to have more long term success.

There are enough uncommitted players in 2022 where he should be able to find some players who are both culture/system fits and have high level talent. That's when we will have the chance to turn things around. If the 2022 class ends up terrible, then I'll join people in their state of panic.
Click to expand...

Pretty much summarizes what 95% have said in this thread.
 

Gopherfan1000 said:
Ben has done nothing to convince the top tier MN recruits and transfers from other schools to even consider coming home to play the upcoming season/or start a collegiate career with him at Minnesota. I know it's early, very early, but this is not looking good. This team is going to be epically/ if not historically awful for 2-3 seasons. I don't know anything about Ben or his coaching, but his recruiting is off to a very mediocre start.

Where are we at for recruits in 2022-2023? Nobody good seems to be considering playing with him at Minnesota and we are 4 months in.

I will use the phrase mediocre, because every coach since Clem, has been very mediocre at Minnesota. I mean he's going to be coaching a team of scrubs this coming year. I won't judge his coaching or him after 1 season, but I am epically concerned about this program's future. If we win 6 total games this year and next. I will be impressed. I am smelling an 0'fer in Big 10 play this season. Not much better on the horizon.

Sorry to vent. I hope I am wrong. This program is giving me zero excitement.

Even Pitino snagged a good player from ASU to come play with him at NM and our best potential player Mashburn followed. Should have just rode the wave with Pitino one more year opposed to hiring a guy with zero coaching experience and a mediocre track record at Xavier. Ugh.

I wish Gopher football could play two seasons!
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Hire a project coach and keep him for 8 years and just when he’s maybe starting to figure a few things out. Send him packing, and hire a new project coach!?

“ It’s a bold strategy Cotton, let see if it pays off”
 

short ornery norwegian said:
this is turning into a competition of "who can be the most negative/pessimistic about Gopher Hoops."

The way things are going, I expect to come on here soon and find out that Ben Johnson is teaching CRT in local high schools, or Dave Thorson has pulled the Jan Ganglehoff term paper out of storage. that is about the only way things could get more negative.

the in-game threads next season could be epic.

Everyone has a choice. No one is forcing you to follow Gopher basketball or comment on Gopher basketball.

it's like going to a restaurant and getting a bad meal, so you spend the next six months posting negative reviews of that restaurant on line. at some point, maybe you should just walk away and leave it alone.
Click to expand...

No, it's like taking a PhD course from a new professor who just has one undergrad degree.
 




Keyser Söze said:
I'm fine with being awful next season as long as the following two things are true:

1. The team consistently plays smart, team basketball with a lot of effort
2. We get a really promising 2022 class

Both of those two things are very much still possible. Having a terrible record in year 1 does not necessarily mean the future isn't bright.
Click to expand...
Fine with being awful next year. Just wow.
Standards dropping daily.
 

leib0039 said:
I try to talk myself into this all the time and I just can't seem to. When the Wolves/Vikings/Twins are awful I can talk myself into the draft and hey we might find a guy who changes the franchise! For college it just feels like such an endless nightmare, teams who bottom out that bad seem to take years (decades!) to rebound. I am trying to just talk myself into us being Baylor, from 2003 to 2007 they won 36 games and were about the worst P5 team out there, well Drew still had a top 10 recruiting last in 2005 and used that to slowly build and now look at them!

That said, everyone who just gets irate any time someone says something negative, I dont understand. I dont think having a truly dreadful 1-3 years is something we should accept either. So those of us that are having a tough time with the thought of a few 6-26ish type seasons, its ok. We love this program and want it to succeed too, just tougher pill to swallow for some. I live and die with every game, so knowing its likely going to be 2-3 (more?) years to MAYBE be a good program is not an enjoyable experience. Just some thoughts from someone that has not been super enthused thus far.
Click to expand...
Well said.
 

Keyser Söze said:
Yeah there are a lot of extremely short-sighted people on the board who are way too eager to call this thing a failure. Sometimes successful coaches and programs have bad seasons in year 1. Get over it.

I'd rather our coach focus on getting players who fit what he wants to do even if he has to sacrifice some talent in year one (since there was an extremely shallow pool to choose from), than just mindlessly grab as much talent as possible and figure out how everyone fits later. I think focusing on the right fit is going to have more long term success.

There are enough uncommitted players in 2022 where he should be able to find some players who are both culture/system fits and have high level talent. That's when we will have the chance to turn things around. If the 2022 class ends up terrible, then I'll join people in their state of panic.
Click to expand...
Your definition of a terrible 22 class?
 


Gopherfan1000 said:
Ben has done nothing to convince the top tier MN recruits and transfers from other schools to even consider coming home to play the upcoming season/or start a collegiate career with him at Minnesota.
Click to expand...
But in all honestly .... what would it have even looked like for you to say the opposite?

I almost can't imagine anyone pulling it off, frankly.

Who was going to swoop in here and immediately land major recruits and transfers, for the 2021-22 season? Coach K? Izzo?
 

Keyser Söze said:
I'm fine with being awful next season as long as the following two things are true:

1. The team consistently plays smart, team basketball with a lot of effort
2. We get a really promising 2022 class

Both of those two things are very much still possible. Having a terrible record in year 1 does not necessarily mean the future isn't bright.
Click to expand...
But why would 2 happen without wins. Without "something".

I just don't see/get that part. Unless Ben can sell ketchup popsicles to a lady in white gloves, and maybe no one could've done that.


Something has to be the prime mover. Something good has to happen, in order for serious recruits to say "well, maybe I should give the Gophers another look".
 

the bottom line is this - all the complaining in the world is not going to change the current situation.

Unless one of you has a time machine, and you can go back in time and prevent Coyle from hiring Johnson. That would be an interesting conversation. Just don't create a time paradox or a variant timeline. those never end well.

Otherwise, Ben Johnson is going to be the head coach of Gopher Men's Basketball for at least the next year, and probably longer.

So your choices are to stop following the program;
follow the program and hope for the best;
or keep complaining.

I suspect I know which option most will choose.....
 

short ornery norwegian said:
the bottom line is this - all the complaining in the world is not going to change the current situation.

Unless one of you has a time machine, and you can go back in time and prevent Coyle from hiring Johnson. That would be an interesting conversation. Just don't create a time paradox or a variant timeline. those never end well.

Otherwise, Ben Johnson is going to be the head coach of Gopher Men's Basketball for at least the next year, and probably longer.

So your choices are to stop following the program;
follow the program and hope for the best;
or keep complaining.

I suspect I know which option most will choose.....
Click to expand...

When the complaining stops it means no one cares.
It's ok to follow the program, hope for the best and complain a little too.
 



MplsGopher said:
But in all honestly .... what would it have even looked like for you to say the opposite?

I almost can't imagine anyone pulling it off, frankly.

Who was going to swoop in here and immediately land major recruits and transfers, for the 2021-22 season? Coach K? Izzo?
Click to expand...

That's a good point. I don't think any of the coaches that we thought were on the short list could have pulled off getting the top recruits right away. I do however, believe it might have swayed some better transfers to come here.
 

You guys have no sense of reason.

Even Coach K went 17-13, 10-17 and 11-17 with conference records of 6-8, 4-10 and 3-11 his first three seasons at Duke before he got "the recruiting class that saved his job." And he took over a Duke program that just had been to the NCAA three years in a row, with one of those being the national title game (win totals of 27, 22 and 24).

We all know that teams that play tenacious defense, that pay attention to the details, that work harder, that have more confidence in their shots, that play as a team, can beat teams that may have more talent. That is what coaching and prioritizing the details can do for a program. For now, Ben has no HC track record. As he develops that team personality, they will attract players with more talent which in turn will lead to more wins against better opponents.

I think we can all agree that Ben is "not yet" at the coach K level. He will have growing pains and hopefully his teams will get better over time. It all has to do with building a foundation and then recruiting.

We do not know how it will turn out, but I think it is better to try to be positive and support the team than it is to bitch about every little thing and assume the worse. All of this bitching just gives our fanbase a bad reputation. It does nothing in terms of changing coaches, recruiting, building excitement, etc... Some of your may think you feel a little better to vent, but it just looks very childish and vindictive.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
I think the complaining about complaining is about to over take the complaining.
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I would like to register a complaint against those who are complaining about the complaining complainers.

people.jpg
 

oak_street1981 said:
Of course if John Wooden had been hired by Sid Hartman at Minnesota he would have won nothing, par for the course.....Wizard of Westwood my ass... wooden won nothing at UCLA for 16 years, then a suddenly he was great - payoffs and boosters then the best players in the world land in Westwood.
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Simply not true. Way before Sam weaseled his way around the players Wooden had tremendous success in those first 16 years. 8 conference titles is not nothing and getting Alcindor to come there had nothing to do with Sam. They had not even met ! He built winners, then attracted great players, he made players better. Boosters at every school gifted players when they showed their talent. The NCAA field office only had 3 part time guys looking at programs. They were busy fighting gambling. Boosters back then did not even know who players were in high school, there was not summer traveling teams, shoe money. Few if any could match John in evals or practice yield. What that slime ball Gilbert did is flat out wrong to players when they arrived and it does not make it ok just because everyone else was doing it. Archie Clark, Hudson and many more got gifts from boosters here, just not as nice of gifts. Ask Bill Walton what he got to go to UCLA, not even a bike. I will take 8 conference titles in 16 years.
 

alchemy2u said:
And he took over a Duke program that just had been to the NCAA three years in a row, with one of those being the national title game (win totals of 27, 22 and 24).
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Did not know that! I always assumed everything Duke is was because of Coach K.

Wonder why Bill Foster left (or was fired??) after 79-80.

EDIT: I guess way back then, it was a much bigger deal to get the South Carolina job than the Duke job. Tough to fathom now.
 

manderson1984 said:
Yeah it’s tough to call Ben a cheap hire with what we paid him. We could’ve gotten Smith, Gates, and many others.
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True but none of those guys did anything for me anyways.

they likely would’ve been better hires. But not great hires. It is what it is.

Ben Johnson checks more boxes for interest groups at the U of M than the other two. IMO Coyle didn’t have the money for a hire a tier above and chose to check boxes at this tier rather than hire Craig Smith then fire Craig Smith 5 years from now.

Not what I would’ve done. But I think it’s pretty clear what Coyle is doing.
 

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