This isn't going as planned

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MplsGopher said:
Did not know that! I always assumed everything Duke is was because of Coach K.

Wonder why Bill Foster left (or was fired??) after 79-80.

EDIT: I guess way back then, it was a much bigger deal to get the South Carolina job than the Duke job. Tough to fathom now.
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Coach K's early problems show just how hard it is to establish a winning program. Even with the advantages of an already established winning culture & a very solid coaching resume it still took him several years to re-elevate Duke to national prominence.

Ben Johnson has none of those advantages as he takes over the reins of a program with a losing culture & apathetic fans amd with no head coaching resume what so ever (nor any accumulated experience with a long term winning program). I think it is highly unlikely that he will overcome this.
 

leib0039 said:
I try to talk myself into this all the time and I just can't seem to. When the Wolves/Vikings/Twins are awful I can talk myself into the draft and hey we might find a guy who changes the franchise! For college it just feels like such an endless nightmare, teams who bottom out that bad seem to take years (decades!) to rebound. I am trying to just talk myself into us being Baylor, from 2003 to 2007 they won 36 games and were about the worst P5 team out there, well Drew still had a top 10 recruiting last in 2005 and used that to slowly build and now look at them!

That said, everyone who just gets irate any time someone says something negative, I dont understand. I dont think having a truly dreadful 1-3 years is something we should accept either. So those of us that are having a tough time with the thought of a few 6-26ish type seasons, its ok. We love this program and want it to succeed too, just tougher pill to swallow for some. I live and die with every game, so knowing its likely going to be 2-3 (more?) years to MAYBE be a good program is not an enjoyable experience. Just some thoughts from someone that has not been super enthused thus far.
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I have no idea how old you are or how long you have been a fan....but we haven't watched Ben Johnson coach a game yet and already we have some fans in here predicting a historically bad Gopher team. Growing up in Minnesota, my favorite sports teams were the Vikings, Twins and the Gopher basketball team. My first Gophers basketball game was in 76 against Indiana. Mychal Thompson wore bells on his shoes and I thought it was the coolest thing. We lost that game, but I was pretty hooked. Back then most of the games seemed like they were on Saturdays and Mondays and I remember checking the Minneapolis Star every day to see the updated Big 10 Standings. I can almost still smell the newsprint.

In Dutcher's last year I was a freshmen in college (Luther). We hired Clem Haskins and it was pretty much a total rebuild. I think his first two seasons we won 4 or 5 conference games total. At Luther we watched a lot of college basketball. In those years Iowa and Illinois were loaded....and at the beginning of Haskins tenure with the Gophers we were bad.

In Haskin's third year, ons of my friends invited my over to watch the Gopher game before we went downtown Decorah. I asked why he wanted to watch the Gophers so badly as it was early in the season, and he told me that they were actually looking pretty good. You know what....they were pretty good. My friend and I drove up during that winter to watch the Gophers play and the Barn was rocking. We sat under a staircase with our backs against the hockey arena. Our seats were definitely obstructed. My friend and I still go to high school basketball games in southern Minnesota quite often to this day.

The Gophers did turn out to be pretty good that year. They made it to the Sweet 16, losing to Duke in Christian Laettner's freshmen year. The next year they lost in the Elite Eight to Georgia Tech. A few years after that Haskins took them to the Final 4.

Now I don't know if Ben Johnson will be nearly as successful as Clem Haskins was....but the point is neither does anyone else on this message board. For four months the same people have been whining and complaining about the coaching hire. They have already declared Johnson a failed coach before we have even watched a game. I think the point that some of us are making is why can't we wait and see how the team plays? Why can't we wait and see how the 2022 and 2023 recruiting classes look?
 


Mikie S said:
Coach K's early problems show just how hard it is to establish a winning program. Even with the advantages of an already established winning culture & a very solid coaching resume it still took him several years to re-elevate Duke to national prominence.

Ben Johnson has none of those advantages as he takes over the reins of a program with a losing culture & apathetic fans amd with no head coaching resume what so ever (nor any accumulated experience with a long term winning program). I think it is highly unlikely that he will overcome this.
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K had also worked for Knight at Indiana and went to Army for 5 seasons where he left with a winning record. The start at Duke was all about the culture he built, what he was looking for. By year 4 he was 3rd in what then was a incredible ACC. By that 6th year, following a pattern of other builders is a conference title and a NCAA title game. Build your culture first, then recruit to that. Then recruits can see a fit and over time you get better players. Sam pretty darn old in years but I have no problem if it takes 4 years as long as I see a culture being built ,traits of a champion. Defense, team work, fundamentals and top shelf conditioning. That is sustainable. My family has tracked how non blue blood programs attained elite level winning that was sustained. It is super tough, anything worthwhile is tough. Few coaches can do it, few fans have the patience for it. If you have not done it by year 5 or 6 you never get there.
 


ethomasp31 said:
I have no idea how old you are or how long you have been a fan....but we haven't watched Ben Johnson coach a game yet and already we have some fans in here predicting a historically bad Gopher team. Growing up in Minnesota, my favorite sports teams were the Vikings, Twins and the Gopher basketball team. My first Gophers basketball game was in 76 against Indiana. Mychal Thompson wore bells on his shoes and I thought it was the coolest thing. We lost that game, but I was pretty hooked. Back then most of the games seemed like they were on Saturdays and Mondays and I remember checking the Minneapolis Star every day to see the updated Big 10 Standings. I can almost still smell the newsprint.

In Dutcher's last year I was a freshmen in college (Luther). We hired Clem Haskins and it was pretty much a total rebuild. I think his first two seasons we won 4 or 5 conference games total. At Luther we watched a lot of college basketball. In those years Iowa and Illinois were loaded....and at the beginning of Haskins tenure with the Gophers we were bad.

In Haskin's third year, ons of my friends invited my over to watch the Gopher game before we went downtown Decorah. I asked why he wanted to watch the Gophers so badly as it was early in the season, and he told me that they were actually looking pretty good. You know what....they were pretty good. My friend and I drove up during that winter to watch the Gophers play and the Barn was rocking. We sat under a staircase with our backs against the hockey arena. Our seats were definitely obstructed. My friend and I still go to high school basketball games in southern Minnesota quite often to this day.

The Gophers did turn out to be pretty good that year. They made it to the Sweet 16, losing to Duke in Christian Laettner's freshmen year. The next year they lost in the Elite Eight to Georgia Tech. A few years after that Haskins took them to the Final 4.

Now I don't know if Ben Johnson will be nearly as successful as Clem Haskins was....but the point is neither does anyone else on this message board. For four months the same people have been whining and complaining about the coaching hire. They have already declared Johnson a failed coach before we have even watched a game. I think the point that some of us are making is why can't we wait and see how the team plays? Why can't we wait and see how the 2022 and 2023 recruiting classes look?
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This is squad is going to be very much like Clems first year. It didn't have to be, because there was no scandal and there was good returning talent ...but the all left. I think this squad, as it stands will be similar perhaps a little better than Clem's first team. But Clem had Newbern sitting a year out, Burton as a frosh and Schick and that set him up well for the future and Newbern and Burton became all time great Gophers, in part because they were so talented and in part because of Clem's toughness.
 

Angry said:
Hire a project coach and keep him for 8 years and just when he’s maybe starting to figure a few things out. Send him packing, and hire a new project coach!?
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Nonsense! Pitino's overall record in his last 4 years was worse than his first four years. He wasn't improving much with time as a coach. The only thing he did notably well was recruit from the transfer market.
 

cjbfbp said:
Nonsense! Pitino's overall record in his last 4 years was worse than his first four years. He wasn't improving much with time as a coach. The only thing he did notably well was recruit from the transfer market.
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This last year was one of the more exciting seasons in the last 20 years. That says more about the U than Dicky P. I knew he was a project, remember he came in thinking we’ll just run and gun the first few years? Not a chance in the B1G.
With another project coach at the U, it’s a self imposed 5 year postseason ban. STU isn’t eligible for postseason. It looks bleak but, with all that being said, it will be nice seeing Eric Curry give it a go for 10$ court side.
 











Comparing Ben's first year to Coach K or Coach Clem Haskins is like comparing sending notes in a class room to using snapchat.

Different times.

90% of players when Clem and Coach K started played 4 years.
Now the best teams have more 1 and 2 year players.

I was concerned when the hire was made.
Then I was led to believe a bunch of good stuff was happening.
Since then very little good has happened and a fair amount of bad has happened with the roster leaving.

I'll hope for the best but I fully expect this season to be miserable.

I expect us to have far more misses on the 2022 class than hits on the high end MN kids.

I'd say we have a 50-50 chance of needing to look for a new coach in March of 2024 and three years of bad basketball between now and then.

The happiest people about the Ben Johnson hire after this year will be the other Big Ten Coaches.


There is nothing to show this is going well.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I have no idea how old you are or how long you have been a fan....but we haven't watched Ben Johnson coach a game yet and already we have some fans in here predicting a historically bad Gopher team. Growing up in Minnesota, my favorite sports teams were the Vikings, Twins and the Gopher basketball team. My first Gophers basketball game was in 76 against Indiana. Mychal Thompson wore bells on his shoes and I thought it was the coolest thing. We lost that game, but I was pretty hooked. Back then most of the games seemed like they were on Saturdays and Mondays and I remember checking the Minneapolis Star every day to see the updated Big 10 Standings. I can almost still smell the newsprint.

In Dutcher's last year I was a freshmen in college (Luther). We hired Clem Haskins and it was pretty much a total rebuild. I think his first two seasons we won 4 or 5 conference games total. At Luther we watched a lot of college basketball. In those years Iowa and Illinois were loaded....and at the beginning of Haskins tenure with the Gophers we were bad.

In Haskin's third year, ons of my friends invited my over to watch the Gopher game before we went downtown Decorah. I asked why he wanted to watch the Gophers so badly as it was early in the season, and he told me that they were actually looking pretty good. You know what....they were pretty good. My friend and I drove up during that winter to watch the Gophers play and the Barn was rocking. We sat under a staircase with our backs against the hockey arena. Our seats were definitely obstructed. My friend and I still go to high school basketball games in southern Minnesota quite often to this day.

The Gophers did turn out to be pretty good that year. They made it to the Sweet 16, losing to Duke in Christian Laettner's freshmen year. The next year they lost in the Elite Eight to Georgia Tech. A few years after that Haskins took them to the Final 4.

Now I don't know if Ben Johnson will be nearly as successful as Clem Haskins was....but the point is neither does anyone else on this message board. For four months the same people have been whining and complaining about the coaching hire. They have already declared Johnson a failed coach before we have even watched a game. I think the point that some of us are making is why can't we wait and see how the team plays? Why can't we wait and see how the 2022 and 2023 recruiting classes look?
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Well Clem cheated and those wonderful memories were vacated. Let’s hope Johnson can achieve more than academic scandals.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I have no idea how old you are or how long you have been a fan....but we haven't watched Ben Johnson coach a game yet and already we have some fans in here predicting a historically bad Gopher team. Growing up in Minnesota, my favorite sports teams were the Vikings, Twins and the Gopher basketball team. My first Gophers basketball game was in 76 against Indiana. Mychal Thompson wore bells on his shoes and I thought it was the coolest thing. We lost that game, but I was pretty hooked. Back then most of the games seemed like they were on Saturdays and Mondays and I remember checking the Minneapolis Star every day to see the updated Big 10 Standings. I can almost still smell the newsprint.

In Dutcher's last year I was a freshmen in college (Luther). We hired Clem Haskins and it was pretty much a total rebuild. I think his first two seasons we won 4 or 5 conference games total. At Luther we watched a lot of college basketball. In those years Iowa and Illinois were loaded....and at the beginning of Haskins tenure with the Gophers we were bad.

In Haskin's third year, ons of my friends invited my over to watch the Gopher game before we went downtown Decorah. I asked why he wanted to watch the Gophers so badly as it was early in the season, and he told me that they were actually looking pretty good. You know what....they were pretty good. My friend and I drove up during that winter to watch the Gophers play and the Barn was rocking. We sat under a staircase with our backs against the hockey arena. Our seats were definitely obstructed. My friend and I still go to high school basketball games in southern Minnesota quite often to this day.

The Gophers did turn out to be pretty good that year. They made it to the Sweet 16, losing to Duke in Christian Laettner's freshmen year. The next year they lost in the Elite Eight to Georgia Tech. A few years after that Haskins took them to the Final 4.

Now I don't know if Ben Johnson will be nearly as successful as Clem Haskins was....but the point is neither does anyone else on this message board. For four months the same people have been whining and complaining about the coaching hire. They have already declared Johnson a failed coach before we have even watched a game. I think the point that some of us are making is why can't we wait and see how the team plays? Why can't we wait and see how the 2022 and 2023 recruiting classes look?
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Best post nomination!!!!

We are not saying people can't have opinions or critiques of the program, just calm down and let it play out.
 


Some guy said:
True but none of those guys did anything for me anyways.

they likely would’ve been better hires. But not great hires. It is what it is.

Ben Johnson checks more boxes for interest groups at the U of M than the other two. IMO Coyle didn’t have the money for a hire a tier above and chose to check boxes at this tier rather than hire Craig Smith then fire Craig Smith 5 years from now.

Not what I would’ve done. But I think it’s pretty clear what Coyle is doing.
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Craig Smith gets picked up by an SEC school in 3 years. I have a feeling he’s taking the Utes to the tourney this year
 

alchemy2u said:
Best post nomination!!!!

We are not saying people can't have opinions or critiques of the program, just calm down and let it play out.
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Let's compare Johnson's hire to Haskins being asked to pick up the pieces of Dutcher's disastrous exit from the program. Like comparing appeals to tofu. The only "disaster" here is the one these discussion boards created.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I have no idea how old you are or how long you have been a fan....but we haven't watched Ben Johnson coach a game yet and already we have some fans in here predicting a historically bad Gopher team. Growing up in Minnesota, my favorite sports teams were the Vikings, Twins and the Gopher basketball team. My first Gophers basketball game was in 76 against Indiana. Mychal Thompson wore bells on his shoes and I thought it was the coolest thing. We lost that game, but I was pretty hooked. Back then most of the games seemed like they were on Saturdays and Mondays and I remember checking the Minneapolis Star every day to see the updated Big 10 Standings. I can almost still smell the newsprint.

In Dutcher's last year I was a freshmen in college (Luther). We hired Clem Haskins and it was pretty much a total rebuild. I think his first two seasons we won 4 or 5 conference games total. At Luther we watched a lot of college basketball. In those years Iowa and Illinois were loaded....and at the beginning of Haskins tenure with the Gophers we were bad.

In Haskin's third year, ons of my friends invited my over to watch the Gopher game before we went downtown Decorah. I asked why he wanted to watch the Gophers so badly as it was early in the season, and he told me that they were actually looking pretty good. You know what....they were pretty good. My friend and I drove up during that winter to watch the Gophers play and the Barn was rocking. We sat under a staircase with our backs against the hockey arena. Our seats were definitely obstructed. My friend and I still go to high school basketball games in southern Minnesota quite often to this day.

The Gophers did turn out to be pretty good that year. They made it to the Sweet 16, losing to Duke in Christian Laettner's freshmen year. The next year they lost in the Elite Eight to Georgia Tech. A few years after that Haskins took them to the Final 4.

Now I don't know if Ben Johnson will be nearly as successful as Clem Haskins was....but the point is neither does anyone else on this message board. For four months the same people have been whining and complaining about the coaching hire. They have already declared Johnson a failed coach before we have even watched a game. I think the point that some of us are making is why can't we wait and see how the team plays? Why can't we wait and see how the 2022 and 2023 recruiting classes look?
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Thank you. The Gophers are likely going to have a bit of a rough year.....but nothing is certain. The reality is that sometimes you have to burn it all down and start over fresh. I liked Pitino....but we finished in the bottom half of the Big Ten in all but two of his eight seasons....and we had only one NCAA Tournament win in that time. And people can whine and cry about Johnson getting the job.....but NOBODY can predict how much or how little success he will have as the HC.
 



We are calm... You guys are the ones flying off the handles because of our opinion is not what you all think it should be... Just like everything else in this world
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
Well Clem cheated and those wonderful memories were vacated. Let’s hope Johnson can achieve more than academic scandals.
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Beg to differ. I still look back on the 97 run fondly and could care less what memories you or the NCAA thinks was vacated.

They didn't cheat at the basketball games and while I wish Clem would have just assigned someone competent to make sure they did their own coursework - the games were won and the banners were pulled down on a technicality. Ha, come and take the wonderful memories back if you can...
 

CPTMidnight said:
Beg to differ. I still look back on the 97 run fondly and could care less what memories you or the NCAA thinks was vacated.

They didn't cheat at the basketball games and while I wish Clem would have just assigned someone competent to make sure they did their own coursework - the games were won and the banners were pulled down on a technicality. Ha, come and take the wonderful memories back if you can...
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I’m with you. But if our goal is to return to that, maybe we find a better way to do it. That scandal pales in comparison to many others but still sucks that the pinnacle of this program was marred by that.
 

It’s old chestnut. I’d rather be an incorrect optimist than a correct pessimist.
 

Jesus, give the guy a chance. Nobody here in in the inner circle so can claim zero knowledge of strategy, plans, etc. Johnson would be nailed, just like you are doing now, if he didn't offer most or all quality kids from MN, but nobody knows the behind the scenes talk or why those kids chose to go elsewhere. The Goph's have not produced a program that MN kids want to play for yet....give him a chance. If in 2-3 years, he sucks, then blast him, but anyone claiming to know whether he is off to a good or bad start, is just plain nonsense!
 

gopherfan1212 said:
Jesus, give the guy a chance. Nobody here in in the inner circle so can claim zero knowledge of strategy, plans, etc. Johnson would be nailed, just like you are doing now, if he didn't offer most or all quality kids from MN, but nobody knows the behind the scenes talk or why those kids chose to go elsewhere. The Goph's have not produced a program that MN kids want to play for yet....give him a chance. If in 2-3 years, he sucks, then blast him, but anyone claiming to know whether he is off to a good or bad start, is just plain nonsense!
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I don’t think anyone is claiming he is off to a good start, FWIW
 

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