This isn't going as planned

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Bob_Loblaw said:
I've heard from a few people that Ben Johnson was the safe candidate, I strongly disagree. I think Craig Smith, Niko Medved, hell, even Tim Miles would be safe candidates. I'm not necessarily saying they were better, but certainly safer.

When you hire an assistant coach from Xavier (without any HC experience) to be the HC of a Big 10 basketball team, it is swinging for the fences. It is saying that there is something SO special about this guy that I'm willing to risk it.
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I agree that Coyle must believe that Ben Johnson is that special coach with great potential but what is concerning for me is that he has yet to impress me with a public interview. I still do not see his vision of the future of the program. Gritty, high character guys, players that work hard, etc.... What new coach does not say these types of things? Leadership is selling his vision everyday. PJ Fleck is a good example of selling a vision. He is a tough act to follow but you can believe in Fleck to develop a well-rounded student athlete and accomplish those high reaching team goals. He can sell that "grab an oar" mantra to players, parents and fans.

I try to watch or listen to all of Ben's interviews because I want to hear what Coyle saw in him. So far, I have been uninspired... I personally do not see him winning many meaningful recruiting battles and am losing some hope for a successful tenure. But maybe I am the wrong demographic of his target audience... I am getting a little grey up top and do miss Clem Haskins...
 


bizzle22 said:
I do wonder what the deal is with Gates. He seemed like one of the top prospects in a market where a bunch of jobs that were potentially good fits (BC, DePaul, Minnesota, Marquette) came open, and he didn't get any of them. 3 of those 4 made hires that were somewhat underwhelming. Could be a really bad interview, or maybe he has a behind the scenes agreement at FSU. Either way I'm surprised he is still at Cleveland State.
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Which hire is the one, in your opinion here?
 
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SanDiegoGopherFan said:
A la Tim the toolman Brewwwster....he was special. got us a 26 ranked class, he could recruit, got some solid coaches around him but he was not a head coach. hasn't sniffed a HC position since.
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I'm sure that after his U experience, he doesn't want it.

I think he likes being the head recruiter at a big program, and a position coach/assistant head coach type of guy. Wild guess
 


Golden Yooper said:
I agree that Coyle must believe that Ben Johnson is that special coach with great potential but what is concerning for me is that he has yet to impress me with a public interview. I still do not see his vision of the future of the program. Gritty, high character guys, players that work hard, etc.... What new coach does not say these types of things? Leadership is selling his vision everyday. PJ Fleck is a good example of selling a vision. He is a tough act to follow but you can believe in Fleck to develop a well-rounded student athlete and accomplish those high reaching team goals. He can sell that "grab an oar" mantra to players, parents and fans.

I try to watch or listen to all of Ben's interviews because I want to hear what Coyle saw in him. So far, I have been uninspired... I personally do not see him winning many meaningful recruiting battles and am losing some hope for a successful tenure. But maybe I am the wrong demographic of his target audience... I am getting a little grey up top and do miss Clem Haskins...
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Right.

And hence why some fall back to "that other hypothesis of why they hired him, with no head coaching experience, over a great candidate with a great mid-major head coaching resume who was born in Minnesota and could've been had for exactly the same money and terms (maybe even a bit cheaper) ...... ......................"

I don't think I need to spell it out, at this point.


Similar to the rumor for why BJ wasn't "allowed" to have both DT and Robbins on the staff ... .............
 

Gopher basketball is a lost cause.

can’t be compared to the Titanic.
More like a boat carcass without any boards attached and zero oars or motor. Can’t float or propel itself.
So don’t be disappointed in what’s coming.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I've heard from a few people that Ben Johnson was the safe candidate, I strongly disagree. I think Craig Smith, Niko Medved, hell, even Tim Miles would be safe candidates. I'm not necessarily saying they were better, but certainly safer.

When you hire an assistant coach from Xavier (without any HC experience) to be the HC of a Big 10 basketball team, it is swinging for the fences. It is saying that there is something SO special about this guy that I'm willing to risk it.
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I didnt say that "I" thought he was the safe candidate - I merely spelled out why the university leadership thought he was. I think you and I are probably in agreement.

When was the last time that, as a Gopher basketball fan, you thought the U leadership had your back?
 

BJ is not PJ, and he should forge his own brand.

Hopefully, between him, Thorson, and the other assistant coaches, they have a system in mind that promotes a tenacious defense and a high octane offense. Let's have an exciting brand of basketball for a change.

If they can sell that to recruits who have NBA aspirations, they may very well be on a faster track at rebuilding. They have to be patient while learning on the fly. There will be growing pains.

If he begins to win consistently, no one would care that he is not as polished on the podium.
 



VolitileGopher said:
My thoughts exactly. Ben's tenure will be 1-2 years. Then, we will be begging for Richard to return after a uber successful run with the Lobos. Don't know what you've got, 'til it's gone.
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Not a chance from this fan. RP had his run. The Lobo's can have him. Now its time for someone else; Coach Johnson, who was never on my radar and would not have been my choice. But..........
 


Agree with Bayfield. Was quite tired of RP after 8 years. Just ont too many interviews where he described his palyers as searchign for continuity......
 

hungan1 said:
BJ is not PJ, and he should forge his own brand.

Hopefully, between him, Thorson, and the other assistant coaches, they have a system in mind that promotes a tenacious defense and a high octane offense. Let's have an exciting brand of basketball for a change.

If they can sell that to recruits who have NBA aspirations, they may very well be on a faster track at rebuilding. They have to be patient while learning on the fly. There will be growing pains.

If he begins to win consistently, no one would care that he is not as polished on the podium.
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100% agree on the podium. Nobody cares about that. Coach K, Roy Williams, Boeheim, none of those guys exude excitement. Results please. In person? He better be good at selling the program and making connections.
 



Golden Yooper said:
I agree that Coyle must believe that Ben Johnson is that special coach with great potential but what is concerning for me is that he has yet to impress me with a public interview. I still do not see his vision of the future of the program. Gritty, high character guys, players that work hard, etc.... What new coach does not say these types of things? Leadership is selling his vision everyday. PJ Fleck is a good example of selling a vision. He is a tough act to follow but you can believe in Fleck to develop a well-rounded student athlete and accomplish those high reaching team goals. He can sell that "grab an oar" mantra to players, parents and fans.

I try to watch or listen to all of Ben's interviews because I want to hear what Coyle saw in him. So far, I have been uninspired... I personally do not see him winning many meaningful recruiting battles and am losing some hope for a successful tenure. But maybe I am the wrong demographic of his target audience... I am getting a little grey up top and do miss Clem Haskins...
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Public speaking/selling the program to me (and I’m sure many other fans) is not Ben’s strong suit.

the proof will be in how season ticket sales and ticket sales in general do now that the barn has no restrictions.

he landed Fox and battle, from what some mentioned, Fox just loved the gophers so it was not a tough sell.

I keep being reminded of a northwestern like basketball team so far.
 

bga1 said:
100% agree on the podium. Nobody cares about that. Coach K, Roy Williams, Boeheim, none of those guys exude excitement. Results please. In person? He better be good at selling the program and making connections.
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It’s funny how is as fans will compare new coaches to the great ones. I know it’s because we want our team to be great also, but the fact that the average tenure of a D1 basketball coach is just above 3 years is telling of what a crapshoot getting the right coach is.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
Public speaking/selling the program to me (and I’m sure many other fans) is not Ben’s strong suit.

the proof will be in how season ticket sales and ticket sales in general do now that the barn has no restrictions.

he landed Fox and battle, from what some mentioned, Fox just loved the gophers so it was not a tough sell.

I keep being reminded of a northwestern like basketball team so far.
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Public speaking and personal selling are two totally different animals. I prefer a personal selling closer over a public speaker when I am thinking of a basketball coach.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
Public speaking/selling the program to me (and I’m sure many other fans) is not Ben’s strong suit.

the proof will be in how season ticket sales and ticket sales in general do now that the barn has no restrictions.

he landed Fox and battle, from what some mentioned, Fox just loved the gophers so it was not a tough sell.

I keep being reminded of a northwestern like basketball team so far.
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They are not going to sell tickets in any big numbers until the program starts having success again. The old Musselman fans are finally losing interest and they will need to be replaced by new fans. New fans are not going to jump in until they seeing winning. Average paid attendance will be 8-9k this year- my guess.
 

Todd Lickliter is the cautionary tale. He was a very successful system coach at Butler, which was then a mid-major in the MVC. At Iowa, he tried to instill his Butler-esque system, but was unable to attract enough B1G-level talent, and was let go for poor results.

Steve Pikiell is the other side of the coin - he's the hope. His teams have an identity of being hard-playing and defensive-minded. Rutgers took a lot of losses before turning the corner on results, but you could see it coming. The talent has steadily gotten better at RU, but it's still mid-tier (or lower) for the league - still, because of the culture, they're consistently competitive.

You really do need talent at this level. The system/culture can be a great foundation, but it gets a lot better when you have the players, too.
 

Golden Yooper said:
I agree that Coyle must believe that Ben Johnson is that special coach with great potential but what is concerning for me is that he has yet to impress me with a public interview. I still do not see his vision of the future of the program. Gritty, high character guys, players that work hard, etc.... What new coach does not say these types of things? Leadership is selling his vision everyday. PJ Fleck is a good example of selling a vision. He is a tough act to follow but you can believe in Fleck to develop a well-rounded student athlete and accomplish those high reaching team goals. He can sell that "grab an oar" mantra to players, parents and fans.
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I try to watch or listen to all of Ben's interviews because I want to hear what Coyle saw in him. So far, I have been uninspired... I personally do not see him winning many meaningful recruiting battles and am losing some hope for a successful tenure. But maybe I am the wrong demographic of his target audience... I am getting a little grey up top and do miss Clem Haskins...
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He is taking confidence lessons. Coming out date is scheduled for the state fair. Strib article to follow regarding how his first battle was to learn how to accept not being accepted by status quo mn due to age, race, exp. etc.
 

Otis said:
Gopher basketball is a lost cause.

can’t be compared to the Titanic.
More like a boat carcass without any boards attached and zero oars or motor. Can’t float or propel itself.
So don’t be disappointed in what’s coming.
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Bye. If it is a lost cause then don't bother.
 


Obviously, talent trumps everything. However, a good system and player buy in can compensate for weak talent to a certain extent. Secondly, the talent gap between the mid majors and the P5 schools is not as great as it once was. Johnson bringing in mid major talent doesn't automatically mean a horror show. I'm not predicting a first division B1G finish or even a whiff at the NIT but I'll bet the 21-22 won't be as bad as the worst Pitino season--or even the second worst Pitino season. A better system with a buy in from a team that has something to prove will have better than anticipated resulted is my prediction.
 

VolitileGopher said:
Then, we will be begging for Richard to return after a uber successful run with the Lobos. Don't know what you've got, 'til it's gone.
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I thought you might be taking an extended vacation from this site but I see you're back spouting nonsense. As far as the above prediction, speak for yourself! I'd rather walk in front of a fast moving train than ever beg for Pitino's return. If Johnson doesn't work out, we'll get some other coach but that won't be Pitino.
 

jamiche said:
I'm not predicting a first division B1G finish or even a whiff at the NIT but I'll bet the 21-22 won't be as bad as the worst Pitino season--or even the second worst Pitino season. A better system with a buy in from a team that has something to prove will have better than anticipated resulted is my prediction.
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I don't think this team will be as bad as Pitino's worst team either and I've explained the reasons for that belief in previous posts. However, I do believe the upcoming team's record certainly could be worse than Pitino's second worst team. That won't bother me so much as long as we don't see the same pattern that we saw with Pitino's second and third worst teams: pretty fair for the first half of the season but an absolute collapse in the second half of the season (lost 14 of their last 16 in 2018 and 11 of their last 14 for this past season).
 

Ben has done nothing to convince the top tier MN recruits and transfers from other schools to even consider coming home to play the upcoming season/or start a collegiate career with him at Minnesota. I know it's early, very early, but this is not looking good. This team is going to be epically/ if not historically awful for 2-3 seasons. I don't know anything about Ben or his coaching, but his recruiting is off to a very mediocre start.

Where are we at for recruits in 2022-2023? Nobody good seems to be considering playing with him at Minnesota and we are 4 months in.

I will use the phrase mediocre, because every coach since Clem, has been very mediocre at Minnesota. I mean he's going to be coaching a team of scrubs this coming year. I won't judge his coaching or him after 1 season, but I am epically concerned about this program's future. If we win 6 total games this year and next. I will be impressed. I am smelling an 0'fer in Big 10 play this season. Not much better on the horizon.

Sorry to vent. I hope I am wrong. This program is giving me zero excitement.

Even Pitino snagged a good player from ASU to come play with him at NM and our best potential player Mashburn followed. Should have just rode the wave with Pitino one more year opposed to hiring a guy with zero coaching experience and a mediocre track record at Xavier. Ugh.

I wish Gopher football could play two seasons!
 



Gopherfan1000 said:
Should have just rode the wave with Pitino one more year opposed to hiring a guy with zero coaching experience and a mediocre track record at Xavier. Ugh.
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Absolutely not! Regardless of what happens in the Ben Johnson era, retaining Pitino for more than 8 years would have sent a more dispiriting message than taking a chance with an unproven coach and failing. If Johnson fails here after a reasonable waiting period and the administration retains him longer than he deserves, I will say the exact same thing about that decision then.
 

Gopherfan1000 said:
Ben has done nothing to convince the top tier MN recruits and transfers from other schools to even consider coming home to play the upcoming season/or start a collegiate career with him at Minnesota. I know it's early, very early, but this is not looking good. This team is going to be epically/ if not historically awful for 2-3 seasons. I don't know anything about Ben or his coaching, but his recruiting is off to a very mediocre start.

Where are we at for recruits in 2022-2023? Nobody good seems to be considering playing with him at Minnesota and we are 4 months in.

I will use the phrase mediocre, because every coach since Clem, has been very mediocre at Minnesota. I mean he's going to be coaching a team of scrubs this coming year. I won't judge his coaching or him after 1 season, but I am epically concerned about this program's future. If we win 6 total games this year and next. I will be impressed. I am smelling an 0'fer in Big 10 play this season. Not much better on the horizon.

Sorry to vent. I hope I am wrong. This program is giving me zero excitement.

Even Pitino snagged a good player from ASU to come play with him at NM and our best potential player Mashburn followed. Should have just rode the wave with Pitino one more year opposed to hiring a guy with zero coaching experience and a mediocre track record at Xavier. Ugh.

I wish Gopher football could play two seasons!
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We have under the radar recruits. They will explode unto the scene once the season starts and we will have a top 50 class.

very under the radar
 

I'm fine with being awful next season as long as the following two things are true:

1. The team consistently plays smart, team basketball with a lot of effort
2. We get a really promising 2022 class

Both of those two things are very much still possible. Having a terrible record in year 1 does not necessarily mean the future isn't bright.
 

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