This isn't going as planned

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ecoperson said:
Your comparison doesn't mean what you think it might. Are you saying a starter at one of the latter schools is worse than a bench player at one of the former? You don't know that.

Maybe the remaining roster at MN were garbage or a bunch of a-holes while those inherited at UT were studs and team players?

You can't compare situations because they are as different as you from me. You can only monitor performance. The ENTIRE reason for a basketball team is to win games. NO ONE knows what will happen on the court until they tip the ball for the first time.

If I have a team of 0 star recruits and win the game, I go home happy.
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This argument is tired. Yes, they will be judged by games played ultimately. That doesn't mean we can't assess what has occurred up to now. If you want to petition Nadine to lock this board until the first game is played, go for it.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
I don't know how you can look at Utah and say man they are doing a better job than MN right now.

You're doing the same thing with Iowa State and mentioning bench warmers that transfered from P5 schools and that makes them better than leading scorers from Mid Majors.
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I can pretty easily. If MN and Utah were playing a game tomorrow who would be favored? Iowa State?
 

howeda7 said:
I can pretty easily. If MN and Utah were playing a game tomorrow who would be favored? Iowa State?
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Who cares? Neither of them have played a game. What has Utah done this off season?
 




howeda7 said:
All new coaches come from different experiences and walk into different situations. That doesn't mean you can't evaluate them against each other.

No one denies it's too early to fully judge. But like being down 10-0 at the under 16 timeout in the first half, it's OK to be a bit worried.
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Thank you for saying the first line of the second paragraph. As for the rest of that paragraph... are we down now? What school has a full stable of recruits? Is the U the only program without a commit for 22?
 
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Johnnyboy18 said:
Because it doesn't make any sense.
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I just explained why it did. If we were playing Utah tomorrow, we'd be underdogs. Why? Because on paper, they have a far superior roster. Apparently you agree, so now it's "who cares?"
 

howeda7 said:
I just explained why it did. If we were playing Utah tomorrow, we'd be underdogs. Why? Because on paper, they have a far superior roster. Apparently you agree, so now it's "who cares?"
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I don't agree. The game would be a toss up because both teams lost pretty much every major piece of their roster.
 

ecoperson said:
That you for saying the first line of the second paragraph. As for the rest of that paragraph... are we down now? What school has a full stable of recruits? Is the U the only program without a commit for 22?
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The only one? I'm sure not. But we are pinning an awful lot on the 2022 recruiting class. More than any school in the B1G probably.
 



Johnnyboy18 said:
I don't agree. The game would be a toss up because both teams lost pretty much every major piece of their roster.
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They have a lot more returning. Their additions are at least as good as ours, probably better.
 

howeda7 said:
They have a lot more returning. Their additions are at least as good as ours, probably better.
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They return a 9 point scorer and a 6 point scorer. After that there next returnee averages 1.4 points a game. Define 'a lot' more.
 


Some guy said:
If he is going to wait 4-5 years to finish top half the big ten he isn’t going to get year 4.
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I’ll disagree with this and I think the hiring of Ben Johnson was straight up horrendous.

Coyle took a huge risk with the hire and he is going give Johnson a leash longer than 3 years to prove he didn’t screw it up.
 



GopherPoke said:
Jesus! If only bs like this could stay in the off-topic sewage pit. Dragging brainless righty-lefty shit over here subjects all of us to the hatred that some love spewing daily.
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Kind of like this bs topic where Ben Johnson is once again dragged through the mud?
It's amazing how sarcasm is lost on those who want Ben Johnson to fail.
 

Stan said:
No one has declared his plan has already failed. But it’s hard to justify things have gone as expected, to date. Obviously that can change but we are discussing data as it is currently available.
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Gone as expected to who? Us? Ben? Who knows what his expectations were going in to this, and who cares what any of ours were (I'm sure he doesn't). I would guess Ben knew what he was getting into and it was going to be an uphill battle right away with no school tradition or previous success to use as selling points. I'm sure he hopes things would be better at this point, but I have no idea what his expectations were.
 
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cjbfbp said:
I have doubts about that because of this team's guards. This is a very mature guard group and, except for Sutherlin, they have demonstrated that they are decent to good shooters albeit at lower levels of competition.

Pitino's guards on the 2015-16 team included 3 freshman, 1 soph, and a senior who was kicked off the team. Not a single one of them had a true shooting percentage over .500 that year:

Mason: .493
Morris: .476
McBrayer: .441
Dorsey: .453
Gilbert: .365

Here are the career D1 true shooting percentages of this team's guards:

Willis: .540
Stephens: .544
Loewe: .569
Sutherlin at .467 in his one season at New Hampshire was well below the others but he racked up fairly impressive non-shooting stats while there.

I don't know Thiam's True Shooting Percentage as a junior college freshman but he shot 56.1% overall and 48.5% on 3s so the calculated number would be pretty high. His shooting also improved through his freshman year. In his last 10 games, he averaged 18.5 points a game coming off the bench.

If the offense gets these guys open shots, I think they can knock them down better than the guards on Pitino's worst team.

The front court recruiting has been underwhelming to say the least but I believe we'll still get at least one more there. If so, I believe they can be at least adequate.
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alchemy2u said:
Good post. Too many people are placing imaginary expectations and goals that are not in line with the real goals of the program. Ben is starting out by building a team in his image of high BB IQ, hard working, good shooting, hungry players. He will improve the talent as he goes. It is not an overnight experiment, it is a long haul. And yes he has a long leash, you do not hire a new inexperienced coach without committing to give him enough time to do it his way.

We would all like to win the B1G next year, but it will take time. Give him a chance. HE HAS PLAYED A GAME YET!!!!!!!
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To date compared to other first program coaches who have taken over bad, not so great teams, I would rank Ben as last compared to what he has brought in relative to the competition level of their respective conference.

I really hope we don't become the other Northwestern with high iq, good shooters but not top half B1G caliber athletes.

I think the bottom of the barrel goal for the 22 class should be a Top 100 class, which at this rate it might be close.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:





To date compared to other first program coaches who have taken over bad, not so great teams, I would rank Ben as last compared to what he has brought in relative to the competition level of their respective conference.

I really hope we don't become the other Northwestern with high iq, good shooters but not top half B1G caliber athletes.

I think the bottom of the barrel goal for the 22 class should be a Top 100 class, which at this rate it might be close.
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If they finish with a top 50 class will you stop posting on GH forever?
 


Craig Smith was the correct choice then, and he's still the correct choice now.

Not a single thing that has happened since the two hires, has disproven that. Because, duh.

The proof will be in the pudding. Dave Thorson would be here now with CS, exactly the same.
 

MplsGopher said:
Craig Smith was the correct choice then, and he's still the correct choice now.

Not a single thing that has happened since the two hires, has disproven that. Because, duh.

The proof will be in the pudding. Dave Thorson would be here now with CS, exactly the same.
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I guarantee you Dave is only here with Niko or Ben. That’s ok though, Craig is a wonderful teacher and hires good assistants himself too. Tramel Barnes on his staff will be a riser and up and comer.
 

manderson1984 said:
I guarantee you Dave is only here with Niko or Ben.
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They're connected via Tim Miles and CO State.

If Coyle supposed was sold on BH's "local angle", then he could've well just dictated that CS had to take DT.
 

MplsGopher said:
They're connected via Tim Miles and CO State.

If Coyle supposed was sold on BH's "local angle", then he could've well just dictated that CS had to take DT.
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The Tim Miles tree and Thorsen tree connect via Niko and Ben Johnson, but Dave wasn’t leaving Niko for anyone but Ben at the U.
 

manderson1984 said:
The Tim Miles tree and Thorsen tree connect via Niko and Ben Johnson, but Dave wasn’t leaving Niko for anyone but Ben at the U.
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They connect via Niko. Who was an assistant for Miles at the same time CS was. You know all this, it's been gone over in all the tens of thousands of posts on GH about why CS made sense as the next coach of the Gophers.

He would come back ... for the U. Full stop. You don't think Niko would put in a good word for CS? Obviously he'd want to keep him at CO St, but it would be a homecoming and major upgrade for DT and he wouldn't hold him back from that by lying about CS.

No doubt Coyle had a little grinch snicker moment about how hard he'd troll everyone who wasted weeks of life on those posts ...
 

Um, yeah, hi, this the coach at umm Minnesota and have you thought umm maybe playing at Minnesota for umm basketball? Click. Hello? Hello? That is not recruiting.
 



Obi-Wan Okogie said:
Bet Rich Pitino being here for another season is looking really good for some of you now.
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We run into this line of thinking too much on this board. Replacing a head coach is two decisions: (1) do you fire your current coach? (2) did you hire his replacement correctly? There can be some overlap. You might have a quicker trigger on (1) if there is some no-brainer on (2).

I think the entire board agrees that it was time for Pitino to go regardless of what you think of Ben's hiring.
 



bfriedrichs10 said:
Gone as expected to who? Us? Ben? Who knows what his expectations were going in to this, and who cares what any of ours were (I'm sure he doesn't). I would guess Ben knew what he was getting into and it was going to be an uphill battle right away with no school tradition or previous success to use as selling points. I'm sure he hopes things would be better at this point, but I have no idea what his expectations were.
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Ben has the expectation to work hard and work smart everyday. To lead a program on the mission of improving everyday and to do it with integrity.
 

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