This isn't going as planned

[ecoperson]

It hasn't failed. But 4 months in, we have zero signs it's going to succeed. Zero.

You could say the same after 4 months about literally DOZENS of coaches that are now in the HOF. So many here refuse to even let the recruiting cycle play out let alone see the product on the court before casting their final judgement.

 

[salzie]

I have my season tickets and I will be at the games, probably all of them. I have both hope and concern. The start has not been good at all. The ending may well be great. I sure hope so.

it's fair to have concern about Ben, I do.

I just don't buy he was hired only because he was black that is being pushed by some. There are plenty of other black coaches he could've hired with more established resumes. I'm sure not wanting to pay a buyout for established coach factored in as well

I'm also not going to panic 3 months in that we're waiting for our first commit for 2022 cycle

Ben may end up being a total bust.

 

[howeda7]

You could say the same after 4 months about literally DOZENS of coaches that are now in the HOF. So many here refuse to even let the recruiting cycle play out let alone see the product on the court before casting their final judgement.

You can cherry pick examples. But most of the other new power 5 coaches hired this cycle have out-performed Ben to date. That much we know.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I have been firmly in the wait and see camp from the beginning and I am still there after the first few months of the Johnson tenure.

Coyle took a risk with this hire, but it is far too early to have any idea how this is all going to play out. I get the concerns, it is tough to deal with knowing the team is going to struggle for the first season. And it is going to be a tough sell to get people to buy tickets and go to the games during the 21-22 season unless the players shock us all and turn out to be way better than they look like they are going to be on paper.

Johnson is also taking a big risk in basically punting on the first season and going all in on 2022 and beyond. But he knows he isn't going to be judged by the powers that be in the short term so it makes sense for him to look to the future. Fans may not like it but they aren't the ones that have to be on board with his plan for the program.

The only part of this that bugs me are the people acting like the 2022 recruiting cycle is over because 2 Minnesota kids have committed to other power 5 schools. Johnson was never going to land them all so the panic setting in for some because a couple in-state kids have committed elsewhere is just odd. The 2022 class is an important one for Johnson and the future of the program, but there is still a long way to go in this cycle. And his 2022 class will be judged on all the recruits in it, not just the ones from Minnesota.

 

[salzie]

You are arguing against an argument that no one is making.

The argument that people saying it was at least partially political are making is that race played a roll. It was the local connections and race. I simply do not believe it had anything to do with his track record as an assistant. I don't think we would have ever even considered another A10 assistant coach.

Race playing a factor shouldn't be this dirty little secret. We are constantly told that diversity hiring is important because diversity is good, so why would be an insult to say that something good (diversity) played a role in a hiring? It just doesn't make sense. Also - if race played a role in his hiring and you don't agree with that kind of thing, it's not Ben's fault. The guy has been around basketball and was offered a dream job at his alma mater, any issue anyone has with a diversity hiring is not an issue with Ben.

So for me, and I believe a lot of other people on here, it REALLY comes down to the connection with local recruits. Coyle stressed it during his press conference. The pundits brought it up constantly. You also (I believe correctly) brought it up as one of the main reasons he was hired.

When Eli King, Gabe, Dawson Garcia, most of the current team, Heide, etc. all turn down the U, people are going to notice. It's the tangible thing we were told he had that the 30-40 more qualified (on paper) coaches didn't have. Ben will be under a microscope when it comes to local recruiting and it's because of his lack of resume.

I'm not going to say race wasn't a factor

I'm simply saying race isn't only factor Ben got a job. If race was only factor, there are other coaches, including ones with a stronger resume we could've gone after

And yes, there are people who are saying this was a PC/diversity hire

 

[MNVCGUY]

You can cherry pick examples. But most of the other new power 5 coaches hired this cycle have out-performed Ben to date. That much we know.

Look, you may well end up being right but how can you truly say that without even seeing any of these teams on the court under their new leadership?

 

[salzie]

Very weak reasons to hire for a big 10 job. Thus far, major disappointment. On all fronts.

well I'm sorry his first 3 months on job haven't lived up to your expectations

 

[howeda7]

Look, you may well end up being right but how can you truly say that without even seeing any of these teams on the court under their new leadership?

No one is talking about on court. How can we? In 21/22 recruiting, we have mostly struck out so far. Other new coaches like Otz and Shaka and Craig Smith have not. That is all we have to go on.

Maybe Ben will land Holloman and 3 other 2022 recruits in the next 2 weeks and render this moot. But as of this moment, it's reasonable to be concerned.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

No one is talking about on court. How can we? In 21/22 recruiting, we have mostly struck out so far. Other new coaches like Otz and Shaka and Craig Smith have not. That is all we have to go on.

Maybe Ben will land Holloman and 3 other 2022 recruits in the next 2 weeks and render this moot. But as of this moment, it's reasonable to be concerned.

Craig Smith? You have to be joking. What has Craig Smith done at Utah?

 

[GopherPete]

Guys, have some faith. Haven't you all watch the movies Mighty Ducks and Little Giants?

 

[builtbadgers]

I have doubts about that because of this team's guards. This is a very mature guard group and, except for Sutherlin, they have demonstrated that they are decent to good shooters albeit at lower levels of competition.

Pitino's guards on the 2015-16 team included 3 freshman, 1 soph, and a senior who was kicked off the team. Not a single one of them had a true shooting percentage over .500 that year:

Mason: .493
Morris: .476
McBrayer: .441
Dorsey: .453
Gilbert: .365

Here are the career D1 true shooting percentages of this team's guards:

Willis: .540
Stephens: .544
Loewe: .569
Sutherlin at .467 in his one season at New Hampshire was well below the others but he racked up fairly impressive non-shooting stats while there.

I don't know Thiam's True Shooting Percentage as a junior college freshman but he shot 56.1% overall and 48.5% on 3s so the calculated number would be pretty high. His shooting also improved through his freshman year. In his last 10 games, he averaged 18.5 points a game coming off the bench.

If the offense gets these guys open shots, I think they can knock them down better than the guards on Pitino's worst team.

The front court recruiting has been underwhelming to say the least but I believe we'll still get at least one more there. If so, I believe they can be at least adequate.

No one even brings up the possibility of a top half conference or better defense.

 

[builtbadgers]

If you don't think other programs are using the Minneapolis crime/racial upheaval as a negative recruiting angle; you're living in a dream world. You want your kid in Ames or Minneapolis?
BJ is dealing with this every day.

Many local kids and parents are well aware of the problems in Minneapolis and many of the parents are not alumni here. Negative recruiting is real but really not very effective. Kids are smart. They know if someone is putting someone down that they have other issues.

 

[builtbadgers]

Wrong. Ryan James who some stroke his post, fawned over the hire for the exact reason EG laid out. He touted Garcia as a kid who may come here, he said AAU coaches in MN will help steer their kids and more. I'm sure there are others. Doogie did some of this too, as did Justin Gaard.

They were ill informed or experienced on how things work. Of the last 16 kids and families i talked too the AAU coaches had very little if any influence on college choice. Sure, top level stars of some programs have been influenced by shoe and apparel exposure but outside of those , AAU is a great place to scout because of the competition. Those power schools select. Other elite programs make hay at the high schools to get to know somebody, what kind of person they are, their values, their families. Thorson will play a role here, he already is. Ben will take time to build a history with high school coaches and families.

 

[stocker08]

Craig Smith? You have to be joking. What has Craig Smith done at Utah?

Are you kidding? He landed Both Gach.

 

[hungan1]

I have been firmly in the wait and see camp from the beginning and I am still there after the first few months of the Johnson tenure.

Coyle took a risk with this hire, but it is far too early to have any idea how this is all going to play out. I get the concerns, it is tough to deal with knowing the team is going to struggle for the first season. And it is going to be a tough sell to get people to buy tickets and go to the games during the 21-22 season unless the players shock us all and turn out to be way better than they look like they are going to be on paper.

Johnson is also taking a big risk in basically punting on the first season and going all in on 2022 and beyond. But he knows he isn't going to be judged by the powers that be in the short term so it makes sense for him to look to the future. Fans may not like it but they aren't the ones that have to be on board with his plan for the program.

The only part of this that bugs me are the people acting like the 2022 recruiting cycle is over because 2 Minnesota kids have committed to other power 5 schools. Johnson was never going to land them all so the panic setting in for some because a couple in-state kids have committed elsewhere is just odd. The 2022 class is an important one for Johnson and the future of the program, but there is still a long way to go in this cycle. And his 2022 class will be judged on all the recruits in it, not just the ones from Minnesota.

This is going to be BJ's house which is almost starting all over from scratch with most former players who have transferred out. If he resists pressure and takes a methodical route in how he rebuilds, it may work to his and the program's advantage. I hope that his version of Gopher Basketball plays tenacious defense and a high octane offense.

There are lots to be excited and apprehensive about. Let's hope that he can really turn around recruiting. This has been a big concern with the last previous head coaches. I don't necessarily care where the players are coming from. They just need to be of better caliber and fit the new system.

 

[CPTMidnight]

Some of you guys reacting to recruiting news.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Craig Smith? You have to be joking. What has Craig Smith done at Utah?

Smith brought in some good transfers to Utah and he's building his on culture as well (surprised he took Gach though tbh) but you have a point. Either way, the idea that Shaka, TJ, or Smith are killing Johnson is laughable at this point when their is still 80-85% of the 2022 class available and no one has coached a game yet next year. Personally I think Smith has the best chance to be successful out of those three because I think he is the best coach.

I think maybe some (not you specifically) had some unrealistic expectations of what would happen this year. I didn't think it'd be this mass of an exodus, but the former players didn't like each other, didn't win, and culture was bad so who cares. Easiest way to fix it turn it all over even if it requires two sub .500 years in conference to do so. Not like we just didn't go through it the last two years anyways.

Ben was hired to recruit better players than the previous coach. It doesn't mean local, but will most likely include local and I'm sure Ben sold that. Whether he wins or not however will be more on what he does with those players. Will they defend? Will they share the ball? Will they have a good team chemistry and culture? That part it is very fair to have some concern over because of Ben's lack of HC experience.

 

[Mulligan]

Guys, have some faith. Haven't you all watch the movies Mighty Ducks and Little Giants?

No but I've watched "The Jerk"

 

[Off-GridTNgopher]

List the reasons.

He's going to get the minnesota aau coaches to steer the kids the the University of min....... The university of not minnesota

 

[Gopherfan84]

I have been firmly in the wait and see camp from the beginning and I am still there after the first few months of the Johnson tenure.

Coyle took a risk with this hire, but it is far too early to have any idea how this is all going to play out. I get the concerns, it is tough to deal with knowing the team is going to struggle for the first season. And it is going to be a tough sell to get people to buy tickets and go to the games during the 21-22 season unless the players shock us all and turn out to be way better than they look like they are going to be on paper.

Johnson is also taking a big risk in basically punting on the first season and going all in on 2022 and beyond. But he knows he isn't going to be judged by the powers that be in the short term so it makes sense for him to look to the future. Fans may not like it but they aren't the ones that have to be on board with his plan for the program.

The only part of this that bugs me are the people acting like the 2022 recruiting cycle is over because 2 Minnesota kids have committed to other power 5 schools. Johnson was never going to land them all so the panic setting in for some because a couple in-state kids have committed elsewhere is just odd. The 2022 class is an important one for Johnson and the future of the program, but there is still a long way to go in this cycle. And his 2022 class will be judged on all the recruits in it, not just the ones from Minnesota.

The two that committed had very strong previous relationships to the coaches they committed to as well. That's why they committed so early. I'll gladly be critical of Ben's recruiting once it warrants it, but King (unless we hired TJ) and Heide were gone before we hired Ben.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I'm not going to say race wasn't a factor

I'm simply saying race isn't only factor Ben got a job. If race was only factor, there are other coaches, including ones with a stronger resume we could've gone after

And yes, there are people who are saying this was a PC/diversity hire

I think the people saying that this was a diversity hire are simply agreeing with you. If race is factor then it is a diversity hire.

It would be silly to say that race is the only factor - - it never would be. No one is saying they just found the first black guy that they could find.

 

[Gopherfan84]

List the reasons.

• Coyle had previous connections with Johnson. This is important to him in hiring.
• Ben is young, but has 15 years of coaching experience since he didn't play pro ball for long.
• Ben's commitment to defense and how he recruits (building relationships)
• Ben has a very high character and he fits in the athletic department. PJ is the loud voice and face. Ben isn't threatened by it nor does he want to be like that. It's a good compliment for the U.

I'm not in disagreement with you in that I would have liked some other boxes checked with this hire, but I didn't make the choice. If they valued someone young, I don't know who they could've gotten with a track record who is a ton better? Gates Jr?

 

[ecoperson]

There are all of 10 threads on this board active in the last 24 hours. You're not being "distracted" from any recruiting news.

Unfortunately, EVERY thread on here over the last 3-4 months has been hijacked by doom and gloom. I am SO happy that there is now this dedicated thread to this subject. I proposed this early on but no one took me up on the offer.

 

[howeda7]

Craig Smith? You have to be joking. What has Craig Smith done at Utah?

Well, first off, he convinced like 8 players on the existing roster to stay.

Then, he got transfers from:

Minnesota
Cincinnati
UNLV
Utah State

Compared to: 2 players on existing roster to stay and transfers from:

George Washington
William and Mary
Lafeyette
College of Charleston etc.

Who would you say fared better so far?

 

[ecoperson]

You can cherry pick examples. But most of the other new power 5 coaches hired this cycle have out-performed Ben to date. That much we know.

Most of the other new power 5 coaches hired during this cycle had a different level of experience or walked into a different situation than Johnson. People are judging his performance based on the fact that they didn't like the hire. I am as skeptical as the next but I am giving him some time to prove me wrong.

Ben is who he is in a situation that he is in... nothing will change the past. We now must judge based on results in the future. Many have given him 4 months to prove them wrong (or right if they are looking for reinforcement). I want to see his full recruiting class and see the results on the court before I judge.

 

[howeda7]

Most of the other new power 5 coaches hired during this cycle had a different level of experience or walked into a different situation than Johnson. People are judging his performance based on the fact that they didn't like the hire. I am as skeptical as the next but I am giving him some time to prove me wrong. He is what he is in a situation that he is in... nothing will change the past. We now must judge based on results in the future. Many have given him 4 months to prove them wrong. I want to see his full recruiting class and see the results on the court before I judge.

All new coaches come from different experiences and walk into different situations. That doesn't mean you can't evaluate them against each other.

No one denies it's too early to fully judge. But like being down 10-0 at the under 16 timeout in the first half, it's OK to be a bit worried.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Well, first off, he convinced like 8 players on the existing roster to stay.

Then, he got transfers from:

Minnesota
Cincinnati
UNLV
Utah State

Compared to: 2 players on existing roster to stay and transfers from:

George Washington
William and Mary
Lafeyette
College of Charleston etc.

Who would you say fared better so far?

Because he got players from Cincinnati who didn't play his first year and a transfer from MN who was terrible that makes it a better off season? They didn't get 8 players to stay. He lost his 6 of his top 8 scorers.

At least admit you know nothing about basketball before bullshitting.

 

[howeda7]

Because he got players from Cincinnati who didn't play his first year and a transfer from MN who was terrible that makes it a better off season? They didn't get 8 players to stay. He lost his 6 of his top 8 scorers.

At least admit you know nothing about basketball before bullshitting.

He lost a lot of players too, but you can't objectively look at the two programs and say MN is better off right now. And we wanted that "MN player who was terrible" to stay. Talk about BS.

 

[ecoperson]

Well, first off, he convinced like 8 players on the existing roster to stay.

Then, he got transfers from:

Minnesota
Cincinnati
UNLV
Utah State

Compared to: 2 players on existing roster to stay and transfers from:

George Washington
William and Mary
Lafeyette
College of Charleston etc.

Who would you say fared better so far?

Your comparison doesn't mean what you think it might. Are you saying a starter at one of the latter schools is worse than a bench player at one of the former? You don't know that.

Maybe the remaining roster at MN were garbage or a bunch of a-holes while those inherited at UT were studs and team players?

You can't compare situations because they are as different as you from me. You can only monitor performance. The ENTIRE reason for a basketball team is to win games. NO ONE knows what will happen on the court until they tip the ball for the first time.

If I have a team of 0 star recruits and win the game, I go home happy.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

He lost a lot of players too, but you can't objectively look at the two programs and say MN is better off right now. And we wanted that "MN player who was terrible" to stay. Talk about BS.

I don't know how you can look at Utah and say man they are doing a better job than MN right now.

You're doing the same thing with Iowa State and mentioning bench warmers that transfered from P5 schools and that makes them better than leading scorers from Mid Majors.