This isn't going as planned

[benlaur]

No one has suggested that was our strategy, so not sure what you're responding to.

Sorry, I assumed your post in which you state the following, insinuates it: "I'd rather our coach focus on getting players who fit what he wants to do even if he has to sacrifice some talent in year one (since there was an extremely shallow pool to choose from), than just mindlessly grab as much talent as possible and figure out how everyone fits later. I think focusing on the right fit is going to have more long term success."

1) If you are forgoing talent in the hopes of signing better talent down the road, you are very specifically digging down to find your way up, i.e. sacrificing one year in hopes of a better year in the future. 2) There was a very deep talent pool this year. 3) I am not commenting on the quality of players signed, for all I know they will be incredible. I am merely commenting on your post.

 

[Angry]

No, no, dig up stupid!

-Chief Wiggum

 

[BarnBurner]

The coaches appear to be a decent group, but we pretty clearly missed on one we wanted/thought we had. So, TBD at best. Same with the incoming players.

On the communications with local players/recruiting the jury is entirely out. Getting visits doesn't mean much. Hopefully some commits are coming shortly.

Suggesting that elicits laugher.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

Any update on Payne?

 

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry, I assumed your post in which you state the following, insinuates it: "I'd rather our coach focus on getting players who fit what he wants to do even if he has to sacrifice some talent in year one (since there was an extremely shallow pool to choose from), than just mindlessly grab as much talent as possible and figure out how everyone fits later. I think focusing on the right fit is going to have more long term success."

1) If you are forgoing talent in the hopes of signing better talent down the road, you are very specifically digging down to find your way up, i.e. sacrificing one year in hopes of a better year in the future. 2) There was a very deep talent pool this year. 3) I am not commenting on the quality of players signed, for all I know they will be incredible. I am merely commenting on your post.

I think we just misunderstood each other. It sounded like you thought I was suggesting Ben might intentionally have a bad first year or not care about year 1.

Ultimately, Ben is going to want players who are highly talented, high character, coachable, and fit his desired culture and style of play. The fewer players that are available, the less likely it is that he will fill an entire class with players who fit all parts of that criteria.

The way I see it, with how many players were already committed somewhere when Ben started here, he was going to have to prioritize and be forced to make some sacrifices with players who don't completely check each of those boxes.

I think he probably had to choose between these two options:
1. A class filled with high end talent, some of whom either aren't coachable, don't fit the style of play, or don't fit our desired culture.
2. A class filled with high character/coachable, guys who will fit his desired culture and style of play, but might not be quite talented enough to consistently win in the Big Ten.

I would choose #2 because I think 2022 recruits will be more convinced of Ben's coaching ability and ability to form a good culture if they're watching a team who is playing hard and playing together. I want them to watch our team and see a culture they want to be a part of and teammates they want to play with. If we have a bunch of high end talent who are selfish, not coachable, and/or don't mesh together, I don't see how that helps our recruiting even if we win a few more games.

Obviously getting players who check every single box is ideal, but I don't think that was going to be possible in year 1.

 

[Holy Man]

I think we just misunderstood each other. It sounded like you thought I was suggesting Ben might intentionally have a bad first year or not care about year 1.

Ultimately, Ben is going to want players who are highly talented, high character, coachable, and fit his desired culture and style of play. The fewer players that are available, the less likely it is that he will fill an entire class with players who fit all parts of that criteria.

The way I see it, with how many players were already committed somewhere when Ben started here, he was going to have to prioritize and be forced to make some sacrifices with players who don't completely check each of those boxes.

I think he probably had to choose between these two options:
1. A class filled with high end talent, some of whom either aren't coachable, don't fit the style of play, or don't fit our desired culture.
2. A class filled with high character/coachable, guys who will fit his desired culture and style of play, but might not be quite talented enough to consistently win in the Big Ten.

I would choose #2 because I think 2022 recruits will be more convinced of Ben's coaching ability and ability to form a good culture if they're watching a team who is playing hard and playing together. I want them to watch our team and see a culture they want to be a part of and teammates they want to play with. If we have a bunch of high end talent who are selfish, not coachable, and/or don't mesh together, I don't see how that helps our recruiting even if we win a few more games.

Obviously getting players who check every single box is ideal, but I don't think that was going to be possible in year 1.

The problem with the bolded sentiment is that 22 guys won't have any of that to see on the court before most of them make their decisions, potentially pushing the ground floor of the rebuild to the class of 23, and maybe two years after that before any measurable success on the floor. That's a long time in our immediate satisfaction world.

Ben has to sell his vision to 22 without anything for them to see. That's the problem. The cycle is just beginning, but he really needs some momentum pretty soon.

 

[Keyser Söze]

The problem with the bolded sentiment is that 22 guys won't have any of that to see on the court before most of them make their decisions, potentially pushing the ground floor of the rebuild to the class of 23, and maybe two years after that before any measurable success on the floor. That's a long time in our immediate satisfaction world.

Ben has to sell his vision to 22 without anything for them to see. That's the problem. The cycle is just beginning, but he really needs some momentum pretty soon.

Good point. My points apply mostly to 2023 then unless our top targets wait until spring to decide. I'm optimistic we can still get some good players in 2022 though just from building relationships.

 

[Gopherfan84]

The problem with the bolded sentiment is that 22 guys won't have any of that to see on the court before most of them make their decisions, potentially pushing the ground floor of the rebuild to the class of 23, and maybe two years after that before any measurable success on the floor. That's a long time in our immediate satisfaction world.

Ben has to sell his vision to 22 without anything for them to see. That's the problem. The cycle is just beginning, but he really needs some momentum pretty soon.

In most cases this will be true. What the U has going for it is that they are going to probably take 5 2022 preps. I doubt they fill all those by October. This will place nice for a riser (Omot, Ola-Joseph, etc…), a holdover to the spring (less likely for sure, but still possible), or a kid who commits but coach leaves. I’m sure we will also take a 2-3 grad transfers/ multi year transfers. It will also be huge for 2023 recruits as well, but that class will hopefully be smaller and closer 2-3 kids.

 

[alchemy2u]

You have been asked, multiple times, what makes the assistant coaches so great.

You haven't once answered, that I have read.

If it is not intuitively obvious that Coach Thorson is a very good coach and very highly regarded, then you are beyond hope. Kemp and Jenkins are highly regarded and good young coaches. Of course, not of then are hall of famers, but it is a very solid staff.

 

[Ski-U-Ham]

Did anyone plan on the team playing dodge ball at the end of practice? What was Ben thinking? Someone could've gotten hurt! They could've been practicing free throws instead!

/s

 

[alchemy2u]

The coaches appear to be a decent group, but we pretty clearly missed on one we wanted/thought we had. So, TBD at best. Same with the incoming players.

On the communications with local players/recruiting the jury is entirely out. Getting visits doesn't mean much. Hopefully some commits are coming shortly.

Who says that he missed on a coach? There was a lot of talk about that coach coming here, and it sure sounds like it was a set deal, but who knows why he didn't make it. It could have been a mutual decision, instead of a "MISS". Exactly, all of the behind the scenes actions are taking place and so many of you assume that it is all failing. I think he has dome a fairly good job for the circumstances.

 

[BarnBurner]

If it is not intuitively obvious that Coach Thorson is a very good coach and very highly regarded, then you are beyond hope. Kemp and Jenkins are highly regarded and good young coaches. Of course, not of then are hall of famers, but it is a very solid staff.

Why are Kemp and Jenkins highly regarded? What have they accomplished to be highly regarded?

 

[BarnBurner]

I think we just misunderstood each other. It sounded like you thought I was suggesting Ben might intentionally have a bad first year or not care about year 1.

Ultimately, Ben is going to want players who are highly talented, high character, coachable, and fit his desired culture and style of play. The fewer players that are available, the less likely it is that he will fill an entire class with players who fit all parts of that criteria.

The way I see it, with how many players were already committed somewhere when Ben started here, he was going to have to prioritize and be forced to make some sacrifices with players who don't completely check each of those boxes.

I think he probably had to choose between these two options:
1. A class filled with high end talent, some of whom either aren't coachable, don't fit the style of play, or don't fit our desired culture.
2. A class filled with high character/coachable, guys who will fit his desired culture and style of play, but might not be quite talented enough to consistently win in the Big Ten.

I would choose #2 because I think 2022 recruits will be more convinced of Ben's coaching ability and ability to form a good culture if they're watching a team who is playing hard and playing together. I want them to watch our team and see a culture they want to be a part of and teammates they want to play with. If we have a bunch of high end talent who are selfish, not coachable, and/or don't mesh together, I don't see how that helps our recruiting even if we win a few more games.

Obviously getting players who check every single box is ideal, but I don't think that was going to be possible in year 1.

2022 recruits will be long gone by conference season, correct?

 

[howeda7]

Who says that he missed on a coach? There was a lot of talk about that coach coming here, and it sure sounds like it was a set deal, but who knows why he didn't make it. It could have been a mutual decision, instead of a "MISS". Exactly, all of the behind the scenes actions are taking place and so many of you assume that it is all failing. I think he has dome a fairly good job for the circumstances.

Come on. They hired Thorson and the W&M coach pretty much right away. There was multiple reports of getting the A&M coach "after May 1st. " A month went by. May 1st came and went. The A&M coach went to TCU and within a couple days we hired the Richmond coach.

If that is not the case, why did we wait a month for no reason?

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Come on. They hired Thorson and the W&M coach pretty much right away. There was multiple reports of getting the A&M coach "after May 1st. " A month went by. May 1st came and went. The A&M coach went to TCU and within a couple days we hired the Richmond coach.

If that is not the case, why did we wait a month for no reason?

New coach still isn't announced at TCU, probably didn't want to wait this long.

 

[howeda7]

New coach still isn't announced at TCU, probably didn't want to wait this long.

Hmm. NCAA issues or is that guy a member of the Russian mob or something?

 

[60's Guy]

This would imply he wanted all of them to stay which he didn't.

Okay, I know you know stuff. You have access to information. Care to elaborate who he didn't mind leaving?
Liam was gone without his uncle...so you can conclude he didn't want him. Could be here with different decisions by Ben.
Carr probably is going to be too self important for a first year program with a first year head coach.
But, if you want to win and get other players you needed to court him. The situation created gave him nothing to offer Carr or other talented transfers.
Brandon Johnson...why wouldn't Ben want him?
Both Gach...why wouldn't Ben want him?
But if you make the decisions to not pursue Robbins and Carr, then you probably lose Brandon and Both because you now have no players to go with them.

Gabe made his decision very early and everybody could argue how valuable to the team he is but by leaving with his Ben and Thorson connections....intentionally or not that leaves everybody to go if he's not staying neither am I, unless you convince somebody why they should stay. Which Ben was not able to do with anybody.
So, I won't argue Ben didn't mind guys leaving.
I will argue it was really short sighted.
If it never gets off the ground this will be a major strategy blunder why.

I do like many of the shooters he identified to target as recruits. However, one we have for three years I'm anxious to see if that was closing his eyes to what he saw and believing the stats he read instead. That could be blunder two, if we struggle for that reason....or it could also be bright spot 1A of Ben trusting his instincts despite the unorthodox delivery.

The Mashburn family and the Pitinos seem to have a strong relationship. Is it Ben's best interest to let him go?
Tre did some good things on the court and some questionable ones but every guy I listed would contribute immensely on our current roster.
Freeman would be hands down our starting 5.
Mitchell? I dunno he I do believe was a project but he is 7 feet tall and very athletic.
Kenny Pohto was our best recruit and would help enormously.
To miss or not mind that all these guys are gone is a pretty major blunder if it was strategy.
If he tried to keep them all...he failed on each and that's not good.
The idea that a team everyone says was poorly coached but yet was rated in the Top 25 and beat Top 25 teams but didn't have any players worth keeping...well, that does not add up.
We either lost some pretty good players or we lost a coach who had moments of excellence.
But, both crappy players and crappy coaching with the highs they were able to attain, no.
(And YES, I strongly advocated it was time for a new coach) It's what happened after the firing
that has taken all the air out for many of us.

 

[alchemy2u]

Hmm. NCAA issues or is that guy a member of the Russian mob or something?

Maybe it wasn’t a miss?

 

[alchemy2u]

Okay, I know you know stuff. You have access to information. Care to elaborate who he didn't mind leaving?
Liam was gone without his uncle...so you can conclude he didn't want him. Could be here with different decisions by Ben.
Carr probably is going to be too self important for a first year program with a first year head coach.
But, if you want to win and get other players you needed to court him. The situation created gave him nothing to offer Carr or other talented transfers.
Brandon Johnson...why wouldn't Ben want him?
Both Gach...why wouldn't Ben want him?
But if you make the decisions to not pursue Robbins and Carr, then you probably lose Brandon and Both because you now have no players to go with them.

Gabe made his decision very early and everybody could argue how valuable to the team he is but by leaving with his Ben and Thorson connections....intentionally or not that leaves everybody to go if he's not staying neither am I, unless you convince somebody why they should stay. Which Ben was not able to do with anybody.
So, I won't argue Ben didn't mind guys leaving.
I will argue it was really short sighted.
If it never gets off the ground this will be a major strategy blunder why.

I do like many of the shooters he identified to target as recruits. However, one we have for three years I'm anxious to see if that was closing his eyes to what he saw and believing the stats he read instead. That could be blunder two, if we struggle for that reason....or it could also be bright spot 1A of Ben trusting his instincts despite the unorthodox delivery.

The Mashburn family and the Pitinos seem to have a strong relationship. Is it Ben's best interest to let him go?
Tre did some good things on the court and some questionable ones but every guy I listed would contribute immensely on our current roster.
Freeman would be hands down our starting 5.
Mitchell? I dunno he I do believe was a project but he is 7 feet tall and very athletic.
Kenny Pohto was our best recruit and would help enormously.
To miss or not mind that all these guys are gone is a pretty major blunder if it was strategy.
If he tried to keep them all...he failed on each and that's not good.
The idea that a team everyone says was poorly coached but yet was rated in the Top 25 and beat Top 25 teams but didn't have any players worth keeping...well, that does not add up.
We either lost some pretty good players or we lost a coach who had moments of excellence.
But, both crappy players and crappy coaching with the highs they were able to attain, no.
(And YES, I strongly advocated it was time for a new coach) It's what happened after the firing
that has taken all the air out for many of us.

Just go back and reread the threads. There was only about 3-4 players that even had a chance of staying. If none of them are fully bought into the new system, then they are better off to going somewhere else. Just because you think a specific recruit is a need doesn’t mean that Ben feels the same way.

 

[bga1]

Okay, I know you know stuff. You have access to information. Care to elaborate who he didn't mind leaving?
Liam was gone without his uncle...so you can conclude he didn't want him. Could be here with different decisions by Ben.
Carr probably is going to be too self important for a first year program with a first year head coach.
But, if you want to win and get other players you needed to court him. The situation created gave him nothing to offer Carr or other talented transfers.
Brandon Johnson...why wouldn't Ben want him?
Both Gach...why wouldn't Ben want him?
But if you make the decisions to not pursue Robbins and Carr, then you probably lose Brandon and Both because you now have no players to go with them.

Gabe made his decision very early and everybody could argue how valuable to the team he is but by leaving with his Ben and Thorson connections....intentionally or not that leaves everybody to go if he's not staying neither am I, unless you convince somebody why they should stay. Which Ben was not able to do with anybody.
So, I won't argue Ben didn't mind guys leaving.
I will argue it was really short sighted.
If it never gets off the ground this will be a major strategy blunder why.

I do like many of the shooters he identified to target as recruits. However, one we have for three years I'm anxious to see if that was closing his eyes to what he saw and believing the stats he read instead. That could be blunder two, if we struggle for that reason....or it could also be bright spot 1A of Ben trusting his instincts despite the unorthodox delivery.

The Mashburn family and the Pitinos seem to have a strong relationship. Is it Ben's best interest to let him go?
Tre did some good things on the court and some questionable ones but every guy I listed would contribute immensely on our current roster.
Freeman would be hands down our starting 5.
Mitchell? I dunno he I do believe was a project but he is 7 feet tall and very athletic.
Kenny Pohto was our best recruit and would help enormously.
To miss or not mind that all these guys are gone is a pretty major blunder if it was strategy.
If he tried to keep them all...he failed on each and that's not good.
The idea that a team everyone says was poorly coached but yet was rated in the Top 25 and beat Top 25 teams but didn't have any players worth keeping...well, that does not add up.
We either lost some pretty good players or we lost a coach who had moments of excellence.
But, both crappy players and crappy coaching with the highs they were able to attain, no.
(And YES, I strongly advocated it was time for a new coach) It's what happened after the firing
that has taken all the air out for many of us.

Really good post. I would be a lot more excited about watching this team this fall had we kept Freeman, Mitchell and Pohto or at least two of the three.

 

[Tucker32]

I haven’t heard him say that.

He wanted Ihnen, and he would have taken Gabe and Liam had they wanted to stay but neither of them did for reasons beyond Ben being the coach. Ben could have kept Liam by keeping his uncle, but thankfully he was looking beyond one year. Other than that, no, he didn’t try to keep other players and he’s not going to tell the media that. He was honest with players about what he needed then to work on, how he saw them fitting, etc. he was honest. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to understand. Also, other than Liam and Gabe, obviously none of the other players were in high demand given where they ended up.

 

[Tucker32]

Really good post. I would be a lot more excited about watching this team this fall had we kept Freeman, Mitchell and Pohto or at least two of the three.

Look where they ended up. They aren’t Big Ten players, and none of them fit what Ben wants to do at all, particularly Freeman.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Okay, I know you know stuff. You have access to information. Care to elaborate who he didn't mind leaving?
Liam was gone without his uncle...so you can conclude he didn't want him. Could be here with different decisions by Ben.
Carr probably is going to be too self important for a first year program with a first year head coach.
But, if you want to win and get other players you needed to court him. The situation created gave him nothing to offer Carr or other talented transfers.
Brandon Johnson...why wouldn't Ben want him?
Both Gach...why wouldn't Ben want him?
But if you make the decisions to not pursue Robbins and Carr, then you probably lose Brandon and Both because you now have no players to go with them.

Gabe made his decision very early and everybody could argue how valuable to the team he is but by leaving with his Ben and Thorson connections....intentionally or not that leaves everybody to go if he's not staying neither am I, unless you convince somebody why they should stay. Which Ben was not able to do with anybody.
So, I won't argue Ben didn't mind guys leaving.
I will argue it was really short sighted.
If it never gets off the ground this will be a major strategy blunder why.

I do like many of the shooters he identified to target as recruits. However, one we have for three years I'm anxious to see if that was closing his eyes to what he saw and believing the stats he read instead. That could be blunder two, if we struggle for that reason....or it could also be bright spot 1A of Ben trusting his instincts despite the unorthodox delivery.

The Mashburn family and the Pitinos seem to have a strong relationship. Is it Ben's best interest to let him go?
Tre did some good things on the court and some questionable ones but every guy I listed would contribute immensely on our current roster.
Freeman would be hands down our starting 5.
Mitchell? I dunno he I do believe was a project but he is 7 feet tall and very athletic.
Kenny Pohto was our best recruit and would help enormously.
To miss or not mind that all these guys are gone is a pretty major blunder if it was strategy.
If he tried to keep them all...he failed on each and that's not good.
The idea that a team everyone says was poorly coached but yet was rated in the Top 25 and beat Top 25 teams but didn't have any players worth keeping...well, that does not add up.
We either lost some pretty good players or we lost a coach who had moments of excellence.
But, both crappy players and crappy coaching with the highs they were able to attain, no.
(And YES, I strongly advocated it was time for a new coach) It's what happened after the firing
that has taken all the air out for many of us.

Let's break this down. I'll include Liam, Gabe, Gach, and Brandon Johnson as guys he wanted to stay.

Gabe and Liam have been covered endlessly on this board so I'm not going to go down the road. So he missed on Gach and Johnson.

Freeman would not be hands down the starting five because he didn't do anything last year, same with Mitchell. Not sure the situation on Tre Williams but based on transfer targets it seems Ben didn't want multi year guys to eat up scholarships.

Pohto was ranked about 100 spots lower than Thompson and had no other p6 offers so I'm not sure why you say he's the best recruit. He was clearly pushed out if you listened to the press conferences.

You can celebrate how great the players played and coached for about a month but the rest of the season was very concerning both coaching and playing wise. Fresh start was needed.

Off-season was going as intended in my opinion until the TCU coach backed out/didn't work along with the two transfers that came with him. Then Rebraca picked Iowa and seemed to kill all momentum for next season.

 

[bga1]

Let's break this down. I'll include Liam, Gabe, Gach, and Brandon Johnson as guys he wanted to stay.

Gabe and Liam have been covered endlessly on this board so I'm not going to go down the road. So he missed on Gach and Johnson.

Freeman would not be hands down the starting five because he didn't do anything last year, same with Mitchell. Not sure the situation on Tre Williams but based on transfer targets it seems Ben didn't want multi year guys to eat up scholarships.

Pohto was ranked about 100 spots lower than Thompson and had no other p6 offers so I'm not sure why you say he's the best recruit. He was clearly pushed out if you listened to the press conferences.

You can celebrate how great the players played and coached for about a month but the rest of the season was very concerning both coaching and playing wise. Fresh start was needed.

Off-season was going as intended in my opinion until the TCU coach backed out/didn't work along with the two transfers that came with him. Then Rebraca picked Iowa and seemed to kill all momentum for next season.

The stuff at the end sounds like excuses and they are. As to Freeman and Pohto, no matter how you slice it, they were at minimum depth at center where- let's face it- we don't have a Big Ten center in the fold. Thompson is going to be a good player I hope but 4pts/4 boards in prep school doesn't seem like Big Ten starter as a frosh to me.

It was time to move on from Pitino. He was past the point where he was ever going to get traction here and he made too many mistakes during his tenure. That's not the issue I see anyone arguing here. Up to the moment, we have very little good news going forward- other than we like the coaching staff as people and Thorson is for sure, a heck of a good coach.

 

[xxxdog]

Look where they ended up. They aren’t Big Ten players, and none of them fit what Ben wants to do at all, particularly Freeman.

Looking at the several new recruit replacements for the Gophers, they also lacked interest by major schools in recruitment....As far as assuming these new players have "Big Ten" ability, it is highly questionable without actually seeing them play against that level of competition......

 

[Johnnyboy18]

The stuff at the end sounds like excuses and they are. As to Freeman and Pohto, no matter how you slice it, they were at minimum depth at center where- let's face it- we don't have a Big Ten center in the fold. Thompson is going to be a good player I hope but 4pts/4 boards in prep school doesn't seem like Big Ten starter as a frosh to me.

It was time to move on from Pitino. He was past the point where he was ever going to get traction here and he made too many mistakes during his tenure. That's not the issue I see anyone arguing here. Up to the moment, we have very little good news going forward- other than we like the coaching staff as people and Thorson is for sure, a heck of a good coach.

They aren't excuses I laid out what happened during the off season in my opinion.

If you think Freeman and Pohto were going to make a difference in the W/L record of this team, I don't agree. 4/4 at a prep school is on par with 1.1 and 1.5 in the Big Ten and 6 and 4 at a similar prep school.

I responded to a guy who listed off Pitino's accomplishments last year, what are you even talking about?

 

[cjbfbp]

The stuff at the end sounds like excuses and they are. As to Freeman and Pohto, no matter how you slice it, they were at minimum depth at center where- let's face it- we don't have a Big Ten center in the fold. Thompson is going to be a good player I hope but 4pts/4 boards in prep school doesn't seem like Big Ten starter as a frosh to me.

I think Pohto put up similar numbers at Sunrise. With some of these national preps you have to adjust your thinking a bit. It's sort of like playing on an all star team. La Lumiere had a higher ranked class of 22 center with many offers on the roster and another center who was listed at 7'3" so Thompson likely didn't get the playing time that he might have somewhere else. Having said that, I don't disagree with your general assessment that he's far from an ideal player to be a starting center in the Big Ten at this point of his career. Johnson did single him out as one of the better players in summer workouts so hopefully that means something beyond just words designed to build his confidence.

I do think Johnson messed up a bit when it came to his recruiting strategy for big men. Perhaps because his targeted guards came pretty quickly, he might have been overconfident about filing in the rest of his roster. He should have followed a similar strategy for big men that he followed for guards (getting productive or players with potential for further improvement from mid-majors) or a strategy of getting backups with potential instead of waiting for Manley or Steffon Mitchell. Neither of those players was likely to come here if they had a pro opportunity or even a better collegiate opportunity. I have been watching big men for months on the transfer portal and I've seen multiple players with potential go to lesser programs. Now the pickings really are pretty slim.

 

[Gopherfan84]

They aren't excuses I laid out what happened during the off season in my opinion.

If you think Freeman and Pohto were going to make a difference in the W/L record of this team, I don't agree. 4/4 at a prep school is on par with 1.1 and 1.5 in the Big Ten and 6 and 4 at a similar prep school.

I responded to a guy who listed off Pitino's accomplishments last year, what are you even talking about?

Yeah the Pohto and Freeman love is crazy especially since they don't fit the style of play. If either were good enough, Ben would've recruited them hard instead of ignoring them and letting them leave.

 

[bga1]

They aren't excuses I laid out what happened during the off season in my opinion.

If you think Freeman and Pohto were going to make a difference in the W/L record of this team, I don't agree. 4/4 at a prep school is on par with 1.1 and 1.5 in the Big Ten and 6 and 4 at a similar prep school.

I responded to a guy who listed off Pitino's accomplishments last year, what are you even talking about?

I am talking about a rough start for the new staff. To say anything otherwise is spin. All of this can be taken care of with an outstanding recruiting class this fall. But for now, the information we have is not good.

It is obvious that the staff is working hard and has offers out to a lot of players so that is one positive I see right now. Perhaps you have some inside info on how things are shaping up with this team. Do you think they will be better than most here think (really bad)?

 

[bga1]

Yeah the Pohto and Freeman love is crazy especially since they don't fit the style of play. If either were good enough, Ben would've recruited them hard instead of ignoring them and letting them leave.

Pohto was supposed to be a good shooter and passer. He didn't fit? I don't care what your style of play. It's the Big Ten and you better have a few bangers or you will get eaten up. Right now they are projected to be 14th. Would Freeman and Pohto make them 15th? Personally, I liked how Freeman was coming along as a defender and with this staff perhaps being a better teaching staff than Pitino's, maybe there would have been a nice little leap??