The Comparable 4: Minnesota (Johnson), Iowa State (Otzelberger), Penn State (Shrewsberry), Utah (Smith)

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Gophers7633 said:
We don't play anymore avg teams this season. We play two awful teams, and then B1G teams. For reference, UNLV is 79 in KenPom, we lost by 9(while fully healthy). Nebraska is 87. That's our best, and probably only chance at a sure fire win. Every other team is considered a top 50 team, so we'd have to spark a pretty big upset, considering we've played 4 top 50 teams and have lost by an avg of 15.5 when healthy.
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Sweet, can't wait to watch them play the remaining games on the court and not on KenPom.
 
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Johnnyboy18 said:
Sweet, can't wait to watch them play on the court and not on KenPom.
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I'm just saying, the reason you are seeing all these projections of 0, 1, or 2 wins in conference, is because we've played like garbage this year(which every metric backs up), everyone outside Nebraska is a top 50 team(we are 0-4 against top 50 teams) and we've struggled with bad teams(WMU at home CBU on neutral). It's not like this is all in bad faith. We've been bad, hopefully something clicks between the end of OOC play and the start up of conference play.
 

Gophers7633 said:
I'm just saying, the reason you are seeing all these projections of 0, 1, or 2 wins in conference, is because we've played like garbage this year(which every metric backs up), everyone outside Nebraska is a top 50 team(we are 0-4 against top 50 teams) and we've struggled with bad teams(WMU at home CBU on neutral). It's not like this is all in bad faith. We've been bad, hopefully something clicks between the end of OOC play and the start up of conference play.
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Is anyone arguing that they've played good so far this season?

Some have hope for the rest of the season/BJ era. Some have given up on the rest of the season and have decided to start counting losses months in advance. Some have given up on the rest of the BJ era and have decided to start counting losses years in advance. I'll be an optomist for the rest of the season unless they lose to Nebraska by 30.
 
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Johnnyboy18 said:
Is anyone arguing that they've played good so far this season?

Some have hope for the rest of the season/BJ era. Some have given up on the rest of the season and have decided to start counting losses months in advance. Some have given up on the rest of the BJ era and have decided to start counting losses years in advance. Doesn't bother me either way.
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I hope we win the rest of our games. That'd be fucking amazing. I'm also trying to be somewhat realistic though. And realistically, if we won 3 B1G games that'd be considered a success at this point given the competition.

And its hard not to be pessimistic, when there are comparisons out there of coaches who are successful in year 1 and 2. Why should we have to wait 4/5 years to maybe have something? That's all I'm getting at.
 

Regardless of how bad the play has been thus far, condemning us to a 0-win B1G is very premature with 18 games to play. We are bad, but that would be historically bad. If that kind of catastrophic outcome comes to pass (it won't), then that will be its own conversation at that time.
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
College basketball has changed significantly since Clem was here.

Guys can improve by playing with and against better players everyday in practice.

And you’re banking on player development. Who has improved under Johnson as a head coach? Battle is worse this year than last. Thompson is still very bad. Will Ramberg? Nice.

I’m excited for the recruiting classes Johnson has. But to just assume it’ll be a great team in a few years is foolish.
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No, it's not so much different than when Clem was here. A coach should still be given a chance to develop his first 2 recruiting classes until they're juniors & sophomores.

I 100% guarantee that you same guys would be blasting Haskins.
 

MNJay said:
No, it's not so much different than when Clem was here. A coach should still be given a chance to develop his first 2 recruiting classes until they're juniors & sophomores.

I 100% guarantee that you same guys would be blasting Haskins.
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So the portal was super prevalent when Clem was here? That’s the biggest change to college sports since freshman gained the right to play varsity.
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
So the portal was super prevalent when Clem was here? That’s the biggest change to college sports since freshman gained the right to play varsity.
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Recruiting high school kids and giving them playing-time...to build a winning team when they're juniors & sophomores...is still the same.

This Clem-model should still be the same strategy...especially for a new first-time coach. Giving playing-time to upperclassmen still takes away minutes from underclassmen. Same concepts.

Bringing in a good transfer (like Bobby Jackson) can still be done...but it should be once the program is moving. Not the first 2 years with a bare cupboard.
 



MNJay said:
Recruiting high school kids and giving them playing-time...to build a winning team when they're juniors & sophomores...is still the same.

This Clem-model should still be the same strategy...especially for a new first-time coach. Giving playing-time to upperclassmen still takes away minutes from underclassmen. Same concepts.

Bringing in a good transfer (like Bobby Jackson) can still be done...but it should be once the program is moving. Not the first 2 years with a bare cupboard.
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Whatever you do, do not bring in A Bobby j type in your first two years.
Unacceptable.
 

NYtoWItoMN said:
I feel like adding "Returning Players," "Avg yrs on team," or "Avg age of team" as a metric seems relevant... No program has ever had the complete turnover that CBJ had to deal with, and then he essentially had to do it twice.
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We don’t know if anyone will be back or even if recruits will be on this campus. Did u forget free agency is in place. It’s year to year teams now.
 

MNJay said:
Recruiting high school kids and giving them playing-time...to build a winning team when they're juniors & sophomores...is still the same.

This Clem-model should still be the same strategy...especially for a new first-time coach. Giving playing-time to upperclassmen still takes away minutes from underclassmen. Same concepts.

Bringing in a good transfer (like Bobby Jackson) can still be done...but it should be once the program is moving. Not the first 2 years with a bare cupboard.
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We’ll see how it goes for Ben. Sounds easy to do but so few do it successfully. I didn’t know Clem was a first time head coach. But I was barely alive when the Gophers hired him. Or was almost alive. I don’t have the date of hire.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
We’ll see how it goes for Ben. Sounds easy to do but so few do it successfully. I didn’t know Clem was a first time head coach. But I was barely alive when the Gophers hired him. Or was almost alive. I don’t have the date of hire.
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Clem had several seasons as a head coach with Western Kentucky prior to getting this job. Their career paths are completely different.
 




UpAndUnder43 said:
I honestly had no idea.
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I think we're close in age as I was basically being born when Clem took the job so I didn't experience it first hand either. It had been discussed here previously and I just looked at his career just now for fun. Clem was also an all American in college and played a decade in the NBA. Coached at WKY from 77-86, 80-86 as head coach. Hell of a basketball career even before he got here.
 

This preseason started with season ending injuries - plural. Coaches (or the QB in football) are the easiest to blame when things aren't as good as we like.

Clem did well until they said he didn't.
 

Crappie said:
Whatever you do, do not bring in A Bobby j type in your first two years.
Unacceptable.
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I would NOT have brought Bobby Jackson in to play with Clem's first freshman team. Or to take minutes away from Kevin Lynch the following year.

Oh sure, we would have improved our 2-16 and 4-14 conference records. But then Jackson's gone...and our Sweet-16 team has far less experienced guard play. And forward play...much of the offense would have run through Jackson.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
We’ll see how it goes for Ben. Sounds easy to do but so few do it successfully. I didn’t know Clem was a first time head coach. But I was barely alive when the Gophers hired him. Or was almost alive. I don’t have the date of hire.
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Clem had name recognition. But even he decided to rebuild starting with with recruiting & development.

A first-time coach like Ben definitely should proceed this way. Instead of transfers...like bringing his current team to his new job. And he's doing it...he already has a 5-star on the way.
 

MNJay said:
Clem had name recognition. But even he decided to rebuild starting with with recruiting & development.

A first-time coach like Ben definitely should proceed this way. Instead of transfers...like bringing his current team to his new job. And he's doing it...he already has a 5-star on the way.
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Everyone did in the mid 80s. That was 35 years ago, things have changed.

If you're not able to successfully recruit both transfers and high schoolers today, you'll finish at the bottom of the conference.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Everyone did in the mid 80s. That was 35 years ago, things have changed.

If you're not able to successfully recruit both transfers and high schoolers today, you'll finish at the bottom of the conference.
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MNJay seems to be caught in a time loop where both the past, present, and future are occurring at the same time. He has referenced Clem more times since he joined 3 months ago than this entire forum has in the last 3 years, so something more is going on. Supports my theory that he is an AI Terminator bot sent back to the past by Joan Gabel. All in good fun Jay!
 
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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Everyone did in the mid 80s. That was 35 years ago, things have changed.

If you're not able to successfully recruit both transfers and high schoolers today, you'll finish at the bottom of the conference.
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No, the basics have NOT changed.

That's just everyone's excuse to trash Ben. I 100% guarantee you'd be trashing Clem too. I've been on message boards for 20 years...NOTHING HAS CHANGED in how guys blast a new coach...with no regard to the situation inherited or recruiting.
 

MNJay said:
No, the basics have NOT changed.

That's just everyone's excuse to trash Ben. I 100% guarantee you'd be trashing Clem too. I've been on message boards for 20 years...NOTHING HAS CHANGED in how guys blast a new coach...with no regard to the situation inherited or recruiting.
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We blast all losing coaches
 

MNJay said:
No, the basics have NOT changed.

That's just everyone's excuse to trash Ben. I 100% guarantee you'd be trashing Clem too. I've been on message boards for 20 years...NOTHING HAS CHANGED in how guys blast a new coach...with no regard to the situation inherited or recruiting.
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What took you so long to join? Is this a ban evasion account? :unsure:
 

MNJay said:
No, the basics have NOT changed.

That's just everyone's excuse to trash Ben. I 100% guarantee you'd be trashing Clem too. I've been on message boards for 20 years...NOTHING HAS CHANGED in how guys blast a new coach...with no regard to the situation inherited or recruiting.
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Completely inaccurate and laughably stupid.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Completely inaccurate and laughably stupid.
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What I said is absolutely accurate. It's College Basketball 101...the first day of beginner classes.

You're totally blinded by your emotions while watching the games. Or something.
 

MNJay said:
What I said is absolutely accurate. It's College Basketball 101...the first day of beginner classes.

You're totally blinded by your emotions while watching the games. Or something.
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'Nothing has changed' in 35 years is not accurate. It's completely false and shows how little you know about basketball.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
MNJay seems to be caught in a time loop where both the past, present, and future are occurring at the same time. He has referenced Clem more times since he joined 3 months ago than this entire forum has in the last 3 years, so something more is going on. Supports my theory that he is an AI Terminator bot sent back from the past by Joan Gabel. All in good fun Jay!
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I think MNJay is actually Clem.
 

No B1G team has gone winless in the conference since at least 02-03. I didn’t look beyond that. That includes many 16 game seasons.

A bunch of teams have had 1 win. NU, IU, Rutgers and others I think.

For that reason—I don’t think Johnson goes winless.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
No B1G team has gone winless in the conference since at least 02-03. I didn’t look beyond that. That includes many 16 game seasons.

A bunch of teams have had 1 win. NU, IU, Rutgers and others I think.

For that reason—I don’t think Johnson goes winless.
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So what you are saying is that it would be historically bad if we go winless 😉
 


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