The Comparable 4: Minnesota (Johnson), Iowa State (Otzelberger), Penn State (Shrewsberry), Utah (Smith)

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bc2211 said:
SS has been doing this academically and pretty much unbiased since the start of last year. I think there is at least one other thread out there with the rationale on each comp.

Edit: last year I advocated for Shaka to be on this list. There are some intriguing similarities (home state, local connections) and differences (name brand, known commodity) in the hiring strategy. Marquette had a good year with returning upperclassmen last year and are currently ranked 24 with a lot of underclassmen.
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Shaka was definitely Marquette material.
 

MNJay said:
Oh noooo....this thread isn't dishing-it-out. The 'Pitino is a Disaster' thread isn't dishing-it-out. Noooo...this is fair unbiased analysis.
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I think you mean the Johnson is a disaster thread? Ohhh there was a time when EVERY thread did devolve into a fire Pitino thread before he was actually fired. Ben is not immune to this either unless he wins. It is relatively very tame right now compared to the end of the Pitino tenure.
 


bleedsmaroonandgold said:
When presenting objective data feels like "dishing it out," that suggests there is a problem.

Accusing SelectionSunday of being a Badger fan may be the Stephen A. Smith-est hot take I have ever seen.
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BarnBurner said:
You may want to educate yourself before ranting like an utter fool. I give SS grief about Go Sparty however he is no BADGER fan.
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Ok, he's a Spartans fan.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
I think you mean the Johnson is a disaster thread? Ohhh there was a time when EVERY thread did devolve into a fire Pitino thread before he was actually fired. Ben is not immune to this either unless he wins. It is relatively very tame right now compared to the end of the Pitino tenure.
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Yeah I meant 'Ben Johnson...'
 


NYtoWItoMN said:
I feel like adding "Returning Players," "Avg yrs on team," or "Avg age of team" as a metric seems relevant... No program has ever had the complete turnover that CBJ had to deal with, and then he essentially had to do it twice.
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The incoming coach doesn't get a free pass for not being able to retain any of the previous players. Nor does he get a free pass for recruiting all 1 year players so he has to do it all over again in year two. That's actually part of the problem and why he is behind the others on the list.
 

NYtoWItoMN said:
I feel like adding "Returning Players," "Avg yrs on team," or "Avg age of team" as a metric seems relevant... No program has ever had the complete turnover that CBJ had to deal with, and then he essentially had to do it twice.
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Which player on Iowa state’s current roster, that was on the roster two years ago do you think has made the biggest difference?
 

NYtoWItoMN said:
I feel like adding "Returning Players," "Avg yrs on team," or "Avg age of team" as a metric seems relevant... No program has ever had the complete turnover that CBJ had to deal with, and then he essentially had to do it twice.
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Smith literally has ONE key player that played on Utah in 2020-2021. He's had to do a complete overhaul.
 

MNJay said:
Oh noooo....this thread isn't dishing-it-out. The 'Ben Johnson is a Disaster' thread isn't dishing-it-out. Noooo...this is fair unbiased analysis.
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Lmao. Dude this isn't analysis, these are facts. Analysis would be Johnson has sucked ass this year.
 





Gophers7633 said:
His team is ranked 31 in the NET, with a win over a top 5 team. We are currently ranked 240 in the NET, and couldn't even beat a top 5 team in my dreams. Point proven.
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One thing I know is that NET rankings in December matter. Thanks!
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
One thing I know is that NET rankings in December matter. Thanks!
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Well if you want to go by W/L that's fine. My guess is we won't even get to the 9 that Utah already has. Maybe we'll beat a P5 team this year...fingers crossed.
 



golfing18now said:
The incoming coach doesn't get a free pass for not being able to retain any of the previous players. Nor does he get a free pass for recruiting all 1 year players so he has to do it all over again in year two. That's actually part of the problem and why he is behind the others on the list.
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Completely wasted year, not how you build a program, with no head coaching experience though he might have been forced to take what he could get. Whatever the reason it is what it is.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Well if you want to go by W/L that's fine. My guess is we won't even get to the 9 that Utah already has. Maybe we'll beat a P5 team this year...fingers crossed.
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No, you'll be mad after every W. Typical of a nuthugger
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
No, you'll be mad after every W. Typical of a nuthugger
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I've been a Gophers fan since I was 11. Trust me, I'd love to not get beaten by any semblance of a competent team by double digits. I'm allowed to voice my displeasure of the current state of the program, when we have comparisons out there, where its going a hell of a lot better than it is here.
 

Gophers7633 said:
I've been a Gophers fan since I was 11. Trust me, I'd love to not get beaten by any semblance of a competent team by double digits. I'm allowed to voice my displeasure of the current state of the program, when we have comparisons out there, where its going a hell of a lot better than it is here.
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Seasons over in December. Fold the program. Fire the coach. Lose 2 top 100 recruits and start over let's do it.

Just calling out the complete insanity of posters longing for Craig Smith. The coach who's recruiting classes have averaged in the 90s and had a similar year to Ben last year. Team hasn't been good this year but very stupid and annoying.
 
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Johnnyboy18 said:
Seasons over in December. Fold the program. Fire the coach. Lose 2 top 100 recruits and start over let's do it.

Just calling out the complete insanity of posters longing for Craig Smith. The coach who's recruiting classes have averaged in the 90s and had a similar year to Ben last year. Team hasn't been good this year but very stupid and annoying.
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Year 3 isn't going to be any better unless we do something in the portal(which Johnson hasn't really proven capable of). I'm glad we have those two recruits coming in, but I'm not expecting them to play a significant role in terms of wins/losses.

And I wasn't longing for anyone in particular. But yes, his team is significantly better than we are. They are 9-3, 2-2 in Q1, top 50 in KenPom, top 50 in Sagarin, and top 50 in the NET. All of those are predictive. They are in a very good position to make the tournament. All these coaches have their teams in a MUCH better trajectory than Johnson does, and its not like any of these schools have great tradition. I mean Utah did 25 years ago, but so did we.
 

NYtoWItoMN said:
I feel like adding "Returning Players," "Avg yrs on team," or "Avg age of team" as a metric seems relevant... No program has ever had the complete turnover that CBJ had to deal with, and then he essentially had to do it twice.
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MS State
 

Gophers7633 said:
Year 3 isn't going to be any better unless we do something in the portal(which Johnson hasn't really proven capable of). I'm glad we have those two recruits coming in, but I'm not expecting them to play a significant role in terms of wins/losses.

And I wasn't longing for anyone in particular. But yes, his team is significantly better than we are. They are 9-3, 2-2 in Q1, top 50 in KenPom, top 50 in Sagarin, and top 50 in the NET. All of those are predictive. They are in a very good position to make the tournament. All these coaches have their teams in a MUCH better trajectory than Johnson does, and its not like any of these schools have great tradition. I mean Utah did 25 years ago, but so did we.
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Yeah Garcia, Cooper, Loewe, Stephens, Willis and Battle were awful lands in the portal.

I will bet you a significant amount of money that next years team will be better than this year. Let me know how much money via DM.

Minnesota had similar rankings in December of last year. Looking forward to seeing how Utah finishes out this year.
 
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Johnnyboy18 said:
Yeah Garcia, Cooper, Loewe, Stephens, Willis and Battle were awful lands in the portal.

I will bet you a significant amount of money that next years team will be better than this year. Let me know how much money via DM.

Minnesota had similar rankings in December of last year. Looking forward to seeing how Utah finishes out this year.
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We're 4-18 in B1G play, landing those players did nothing to translate to victories. When its all said and done, that record MIGHT get a couple more wins. We could be looking at finishing winless in league play.

And why would I take that bet? Lmao. It's not gonna be that damn hard to be better than a top 225 team. You can be the shittiest P5 team and likely be better than that. Lol.
 

Gophers7633 said:
We're 4-18 in B1G play, landing those players did nothing to translate to victories. When its all said and done, that record MIGHT get a couple more wins. We could be looking at finishing winless in league play.

And why would I take that bet? Lmao. It's not gonna be that damn hard to be better than a top 225 team. You can be the shittiest P5 team and likely be better than that. Lol.
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He made a choice (a very stupid one) to not bring another guard transfer and that's why this team probably will not be very good this year. He's been at least decent in the portal.

You said they will not be better than they are this year. Put your money where your mouth is coward.
 
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Johnnyboy18 said:
He made a choice (a very stupid one) to not bring another guard transfer and that's why this team probably will not be very good this year. He's been at least decent in the portal.

You said they will not be better than they are this year. Put your money where your mouth is coward.
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You say he made a choice, I say he just wasn't capable of doing it. Either way, everyone that was brought in got us to 4 B1G wins last year, and if we're lucky, we'll get a couple this year. We are fucking bad right now.

Year 3 isn't going to be any better in the grand scheme of things. Will going from 240 in the NET to like 190 be better? Yeah, but it still sucks. Lmao. If you want to take a victory lap for still being shitty, be my guest.
 

Gophers7633 said:
You say he made a choice, I say he just wasn't capable of doing it. Either way, everyone that was brought in got us to 4 B1G wins last year, and if we're lucky, we'll get a couple this year. We are fucking bad right now.

Year 3 isn't going to be any better in the grand scheme of things. Will going from 240 in the NET to like 190 be better? Yeah, but it still sucks. Lmao. If you want to take a victory lap for still being shitty, be my guest.
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Season is over in mid December! You know that the Gophers will be 190 in net in 16 months? Can't argue with that.

At least now I know that you are a coward nut hugger and not just a nut hugger.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Season is over in mid December! You know that the Gophers will be 190 in net in 16 months? Can't argue with that.

At least now I know that you are a coward nut hugger and not just a nut hugger.
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Lmao. Dude this season is over. We're more than a third of the way through the season, and this is probably the worst team since I've been a fan. The shitty Monson team finished 150 at KenPom, and this team is already at 177. That shitty Pitino team finished at 192. My guess is we'll be there pretty soon.

Idk what our NET will be in 16 months. I know that relying on two TR FR and expect vast improvement overall, isn't very realistic. I also expect to lose multiple kids to the portal. Hopefully, all the important pieces stay.

And, yep you got me. Going from fucking awful, to just awful, is definitely where I want to be next season.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Lmao. Dude this season is over. We're more than a third of the way through the season, and this is probably the worst team since I've been a fan. The shitty Monson team finished 150 at KenPom, and this team is already at 177. That shitty Pitino team finished at 192. My guess is we'll be there pretty soon.

Idk what our NET will be in 16 months. I know that relying on two TR FR and expect vast improvement overall, isn't very realistic. I also expect to lose multiple kids to the portal. Hopefully, all the important pieces stay.

And, yep you got me. Going from fucking awful, to just awful, is definitely where I want to be next season.
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Teams never get better and only get worse throughout the season. Thank you wise one!

There definitely won't be 10 or 11 other players on the roster that will be returning. They will probably all get worse too. Doomed for eternity.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Teams never get better and only get worse throughout the season. Thank you wise one!
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Well we got worse as the year went on last year(admittedly, the competition got better), and other teams can also improve as well. We are going to have to greatly improve to win a game or two. I mean we fucking got run out of the gym against DePaul.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Well we got worse as the year went on last year(admittedly, the competition got better), and other teams can also improve as well. We are going to have to greatly improve to win a game or two. I mean we fucking got run out of the gym against DePaul.
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Such vitriol for a team you supposedly like. What a miserable existence. Doomed for eternity, may never win a game again.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Such vitriol for a team you supposedly like. What a miserable existence. Doomed for eternity, may never win a game again.
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Yes, I would like us to be good. It's not fun watching us get run against any team that is at least half-competent. We could have and should have done better than hiring a Xavier assistant, who while there, didn't get to the tournament ONE time, and its freaking Xavier. They had made it, since 2000, every year except 3 times. The program had just gone through their worst stretch as a program since like the early 80's. Their HC would get fired after the 2022 season, had we not hired Ben, he's probably an assistant at Miami(Oh) right now.
 

MNJay said:
Oh noooo....this thread isn't dishing-it-out. The 'Ben Johnson is a Disaster' thread isn't dishing-it-out. Noooo...this is fair unbiased analysis.
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How many people have been banned under multiple user names? Are you this persistent at being annoying in real life? I really hope not for your sake and those around you.
 

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