The Comparable 4: Minnesota (Johnson), Iowa State (Otzelberger), Penn State (Shrewsberry), Utah (Smith)


leib0039

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
1,189
Reaction score
1,772
Points
113
Yeah Garcia, Cooper, Loewe, Stephens, Willis and Battle were awful lands in the portal.

I will bet you a significant amount of money that next years team will be better than this year. Let me know how much money via DM.

Minnesota had similar rankings in December of last year. Looking forward to seeing how Utah finishes out this year.
DM sent! Totally agree, put some money where your mouth is, I have asked people to do that before and then I hear nothing back!
 

Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
17,840
Reaction score
10,308
Points
113
How many people have been banned under multiple user names? Are you this persistent at being annoying in real life? I really hope not for your sake and those around you.
People like this are typically wallflowers in real life.
 

golfing18now

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
2,885
Reaction score
1,832
Points
113
DM sent! Totally agree, put some money where your mouth is, I have asked people to do that before and then I hear nothing back!

Curious to hear how you both measure "better". If the bar stays as low as it is.......
 



leib0039

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
1,189
Reaction score
1,772
Points
113
I feel like adding "Returning Players," "Avg yrs on team," or "Avg age of team" as a metric seems relevant... No program has ever had the complete turnover that CBJ had to deal with, and then he essentially had to do it twice.
Just as a point of comparison:

Va Tech11-1 5 Fr--5 Transfers--the 3 that are neither of those is 2 SO and 1 JR
Tex Tech 8-2 5 Fr--7 Transfers--1 JR who has been there 3 years
WVU 9-2 2 Fr 7 Transfers 4 Sophs

I would say those are 3 good examples of "complete" turnovers in 2 years. And they might be a bit better programs than the Gophers but they are certainly nowhere near the Duke/KU/UNC's of the world.
 

Gophers7633

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
556
Reaction score
289
Points
63
Just as a point of comparison:

Va Tech11-1 5 Fr--5 Transfers--the 3 that are neither of those is 2 SO and 1 JR
Tex Tech 8-2 5 Fr--7 Transfers--1 JR who has been there 3 years
WVU 9-2 2 Fr 7 Transfers 4 Sophs

I would say those are 3 good examples of "complete" turnovers in 2 years. And they might be a bit better programs than the Gophers but they are certainly nowhere near the Duke/KU/UNC's of the world.

Virginia Tech is a GREAT parallel to what the Gophers could have done. After Buzz left following the 2019 season, they lost almost everyone to transfer/graduation/draft. They returned only 4 guys from that team and they combined to avg 11 ppg in 2019. Mike Young had to roll with that, and the 46th ranked recruiting class. He was 16-16 in year 1. After that season, he lost 3 of those guys to transfer. So from the end of the 2019 season to the beginning of the 2020 season he returned ONE player. And it was a guy that avg 3.5 ppg for his career. He filled out the roster with good transfer options and the 41st ranked recruiting class. They made the tournament as a 10 seed at the end of the 2021 season. Then last year, there were no holdovers from Buzz's team, and they won the ACCT tournament, which yeah, it wasn't a great year for the league, but the league still sent two teams to the FF and another team to the E8. Not like he ran through a 1 bid league.

This program was capable of doing that, instead we hired someone with no HC experience, from a program that dipped significantly while he was an assistant, and couldn't even land the NIU gig. This looks like Kevin Stallings' year two at Pitt.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
728
Reaction score
538
Points
93
Yeah Garcia, Cooper, Loewe, Stephens, Willis and Battle were awful lands in the portal.

I will bet you a significant amount of money that next years team will be better than this year. Let me know how much money via DM.

Minnesota had similar rankings in December of last year. Looking forward to seeing how Utah finishes out this year.
so 1 or 2 big 10 wins... What a great team
 

Spaulding!No!

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Messages
6,337
Reaction score
3,003
Points
113
Just as a point of comparison:

Va Tech11-1 5 Fr--5 Transfers--the 3 that are neither of those is 2 SO and 1 JR
Tex Tech 8-2 5 Fr--7 Transfers--1 JR who has been there 3 years
WVU 9-2 2 Fr 7 Transfers 4 Sophs

I would say those are 3 good examples of "complete" turnovers in 2 years. And they might be a bit better programs than the Gophers but they are certainly nowhere near the Duke/KU/UNC's of the world.
This is most likely the career trajectory if the gophers didn't feel like providing charity to Ben
Mods!!!!
 



MNJay

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Messages
536
Reaction score
390
Points
63
How many people have been banned under multiple user names? Are you this persistent at being annoying in real life? I really hope not for your sake and those around you.
I don't think I'll be banned. Because I don't think this site is run by Badger fans. Or by children.

The constant non-stop temper-tantrums on here...trashing Coach Johnson...mocking & ridiculing him...is over-the-top.

But I'm the bad guy for saying we should let Ben develop his good recruits into juniors & sophomores like Clem did.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
13,101
Reaction score
9,465
Points
113
I don't think I'll be banned. Because I don't think this site is run by Badger fans. Or by children.

The constant non-stop temper-tantrums on here...trashing Coach Johnson...mocking & ridiculing him...is over-the-top.

But I'm the bad guy for saying we should let Ben develop his good recruits into juniors & sophomores like Clem did.

No you're the bad guy for calling posters who have been on here for years having objective arguments good and bad about gopher basketball Badger fans when they clearly are not.

Actually you're not even a bad guy for doing it, you just look like a complete moron. Let's just all sing kumbaya and watch our team get throttled by 20 by every B1G team on our way to a historically bad season, maybe even one of the worst ever. Nothing to complain about....and if you do, BADGER fan!!!!
 

GopherBlood666

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2019
Messages
2,757
Reaction score
2,530
Points
113
No you're the bad guy for calling posters who have been on here for years having objective arguments good and bad about gopher basketball Badger fans when they clearly are not.

Actually you're not even a bad guy for doing it, you just look like a complete moron. Let's just all sing kumbaya and watch our team get throttled by 20 by every B1G team on our way to a historically bad season, maybe even one of the worst ever. Nothing to complain about....and if you do, BADGER fan!!!!
I'm convinced mnjay is an AI terminator bot sent by future Joan gabel to try and prevent criticism of her basketball hire before things get out of hand. It's not their fault, it's just their programming.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
71,066
Reaction score
26,581
Points
113
I will bet you a significant amount of money that next years team will be better than this year. Let me know how much money via DM.
Lol. We're currently ranked in the 200's and have the highest odds in all of college basketball to go winless in our conference. We'll be better next year? Bold take.
 



MNJay

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Messages
536
Reaction score
390
Points
63
No you're the bad guy for calling posters who have been on here for years having objective arguments good and bad about gopher basketball Badger fans when they clearly are not.

Actually you're not even a bad guy for doing it, you just look like a complete moron. Let's just all sing kumbaya and watch our team get throttled by 20 by every B1G team on our way to a historically bad season, maybe even one of the worst ever. Nothing to complain about....and if you do, BADGER fan!!!!
I'm talking about all the non-stop mocking & ridiculing of Ben & the team. And you know that.

It's cool, it's all in fun. But if you can dish it out...you should be able to take it too.
 

golfing18now

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
2,885
Reaction score
1,832
Points
113
I'm talking about all the non-stop mocking & ridiculing of Ben & the team. And you know that.

It's cool, it's all in fun. But if you can dish it out...you should be able to take it too.

I actually think the criticism has been pretty mild to this point. There really hasn't been many posters calling for his head. That would be idiotic. But it is also fair to compare results here against his peers. The programs being compared against in this thread were selected before any of the results were even in last year. SelectionSunday wasn't cherry picking results two years in to drive home an anti Ben Johnson narrative. He picked a few programs that were similar in accomplishment. I've seen no mention of adding Duke, North Carolina, Arizona, Villanova, or other elite programs to the comparison.

By the way, he doesn't need me backing him up. But nobody adds more OBJECTIVE college basketball content to this site than SelectionSunday. He's the wrong target for your ire.
 

SelectionSunday

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
23,136
Reaction score
1,862
Points
113
I actually think the criticism has been pretty mild to this point. There really hasn't been many posters calling for his head. That would be idiotic. But it is also fair to compare results here against his peers. The programs being compared against in this thread were selected before any of the results were even in last year. SelectionSunday wasn't cherry picking results two years in to drive home an anti Ben Johnson narrative. He picked a few programs that were similar in accomplishment. I've seen no mention of adding Duke, North Carolina, Arizona, Villanova, or other elite programs to the comparison.

By the way, he doesn't need me backing him up. But nobody adds more OBJECTIVE college basketball content to this site than SelectionSunday. He's the wrong target for your ire.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
 

MNJay

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Messages
536
Reaction score
390
Points
63
But nobody adds more OBJECTIVE college basketball content to this site than SelectionSunday. He's the wrong target for your ire.
You're not going to pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

LOL but seriously.
 

leib0039

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
1,189
Reaction score
1,772
Points
113

This is a great thread. This is my biggest frustration with Johnson. I see 0 identity. We just seem to roll the ball out and hope. Schrewsberry wants to be a 3pt team, he got a bunch of his that fit that and now has a top 25ish team.
 

MNJay

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Messages
536
Reaction score
390
Points
63

This is a great thread. This is my biggest frustration with Johnson. I see 0 identity. We just seem to roll the ball out and hope. Schrewsberry wants to be a 3pt team, he got a bunch of his that fit that and now has a top 25ish team.
All 4 are seniors. 2 on Penn State the whole time and 2 one-and-done transfers. And Penn State is still unranked.

I'd rather try a Clem Haskins style rebuild with developing freshmen and good recruiting.
 

UpAndUnder43

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
11,888
Reaction score
8,860
Points
113
All 4 are seniors. 2 on Penn State the whole time and 2 one-and-done transfers. And Penn State is still unranked.

I'd rather try a Clem Haskins style rebuild with developing freshmen and good recruiting.
I think you can recruit, have a bunch of freshman and try to rebuild a program while not bottoming out. A few of those seniors will be back next year it looks like. They also appear to have a few freshman and juniors getting solid minutes.

There is no excuse to be looking at an 0-20 conference season unless you’re facing major sanctions and/or suspensions. Realistically I think the Gophers win 1-3 B1G games. That would have Johnson at 7-33 (best case to me) and that’s 7 less wins (and 11 more losses) than Pitino had in years 1 and 2.

6 wins would tie the lowest 2 consecutive season total. Set by Clem in year 1 and 2. But they played less conference games back then. For reference, the worst 3 year stretch ever would be 11 wins. But again—in 12 less games then Johnson’s Jumpers will play.
 

MNJay

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Messages
536
Reaction score
390
Points
63
I think you can recruit, have a bunch of freshman and try to rebuild a program while not bottoming out. A few of those seniors will be back next year it looks like. They also appear to have a few freshman and juniors getting solid minutes.

There is no excuse to be looking at an 0-20 conference season unless you’re facing major sanctions and/or suspensions. Realistically I think the Gophers win 1-3 B1G games. That would have Johnson at 7-33 (best case to me) and that’s 7 less wins (and 11 more losses) than Pitino had in years 1 and 2.

6 wins would tie the lowest 2 consecutive season total. Set by Clem in year 1 and 2. But they played less conference games back then. For reference, the worst 3 year stretch ever would be 11 wins. But again—in 12 less games then Johnson’s Jumpers will play.
Does Penn State have any 5-star recruits on the way?

And playing 4 seniors DOES take away minutes from developing freshmen.

Like Clem, I'd rather be bad now and aim for being great in 2 years. Rather than like Penn State aiming for mediocrity.
 


UpAndUnder43

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
11,888
Reaction score
8,860
Points
113
Does Penn State have any 5-star recruits on the way?

And playing 4 seniors DOES take away minutes from developing freshmen.

Like Clem, I'd rather be bad now and aim for being great in 2 years. Rather than like Penn State aiming for mediocrity.
College basketball has changed significantly since Clem was here.

Guys can improve by playing with and against better players everyday in practice.

And you’re banking on player development. Who has improved under Johnson as a head coach? Battle is worse this year than last. Thompson is still very bad. Will Ramberg? Nice.

I’m excited for the recruiting classes Johnson has. But to just assume it’ll be a great team in a few years is foolish.
 

UpAndUnder43

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
11,888
Reaction score
8,860
Points
113
Nothing quite like talking about future records including 18+ losses for games that haven't even happened yet.
How many conference games do the gophers win this year? I gave them 1-3 which I think is accurate. Hard to see 0-20 but hard to see 4-14
 

Johnnyboy18

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
4,270
Reaction score
1,097
Points
113
How many conference games do the gophers win this year? I gave them 1-3 which I think is accurate. Hard to see 0-20 but hard to see 4-14
I don't know. I'd like to see them play more average teams at full strength before I start talking about 0-20. That's just me though.
 

UpAndUnder43

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
11,888
Reaction score
8,860
Points
113
I don't know. I'd like to see them play more average teams at full strength before I start talking about 0-20. That's just me though.
That’s fair. Teams I thought might suck in the big ten have played well. Northwestern, Nebraska and PSU all look better than expected.
 

Bad Gopher

A Loner, A Rebel
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
21,419
Reaction score
6,649
Points
113
Builtbadgers: Pitino is terrible, worst conference record in team history, complete failure.

Ben Johnson: Hold my beer.

(all in good fun guys, hope things turn around!)
builtbadgers didn't think much of Richard as a coach, but he was a booster of the Johnson hire...although much of his stated reasoning had to do with Thorson being on the staff. At least that's how I remember it. When's the last time we heard from built?
 

GopherBlood666

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2019
Messages
2,757
Reaction score
2,530
Points
113
builtbadgers didn't think much of Richard as a coach, but he was a booster of the Johnson hire...although much of his stated reasoning had to do with Thorson being on the staff. At least that's how I remember it. When's the last time we heard from built?
He chimed in somewhat recently to let us know he has been disappointed in the team's defensive effort so far. He has been very quite otherwise.
 

Bad Gopher

A Loner, A Rebel
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
21,419
Reaction score
6,649
Points
113

This is a great thread. This is my biggest frustration with Johnson. I see 0 identity. We just seem to roll the ball out and hope. Schrewsberry wants to be a 3pt team, he got a bunch of his that fit that and now has a top 25ish team.
I feel like last year's Gopher team had an identity, and much of it was skill and shooting. This year we're younger and more athletic but with a huge dropoff in skill. There's only so much you can establish with a roster lacking basketball skills, and that includes an inability to convert athleticism around the basket to points at the free-throw line.
 

Gophers7633

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
556
Reaction score
289
Points
63
I don't know. I'd like to see them play more average teams at full strength before I start talking about 0-20. That's just me though.

We don't play anymore avg teams this season. We play two awful teams, and then B1G teams. For reference, UNLV is 79 in KenPom, we lost by 9(while fully healthy). Nebraska is 87. That's our best, and probably only chance at a sure fire win. Every other team is considered a top 50 team, so we'd have to spark a pretty big upset, considering we've played 4 top 50 teams and have lost by an avg of 15.5 when healthy.
 




Top Bottom