The Big 10 made a huge mistake, change my mind...

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Section2 said:
yes, thank you I agree, although I think your death rate is still too high.
My grandma just died apparently from COVID, and she has been quarantined in her nursing home room for 6 months. No family in, no visits with friends, just the occasional facetime. Still got it.

Students can all stay in their dorms at college, but classes are online. Makes no sense.
You can only walk in a restaurant if you wear a mask, then when seated no mask, and there are fans blowing, makes no sense. College players can practice, but not play games.
There is just no sense to any of it, and of course not. These are political and legal solutions, not practical common sense solutions. Individuals making their own decisions is the best solution, for covid, and for everything.
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Sorry, man, but patriotism requires that people of this wonderful country occasionally sacrifice for the greater good. This might mean doing something as inconvenient as wearing a surgical mask in public.
 

PoockItInfor6 said:
The “collateral” damage, including this, increased homicides and other violent crimes is real. I’m all for masking up, and I was 100% onboard with locking everything down when the Death rate was believed to be 4-7%... but for the last 13-14 weeks we’ve known it was 0.2-0.5% and things had spread too far to have a realistic chance at containing it anyways. Is it worth trading 5 more years for your 85 year old dad/grandpa for losing your nephew to suicide at 20? There is no answer that saves everyone, but we need to be real with the impact of the decisions we are making.
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Get that shit out of here. Nobody wants to talk about the real long term negative effects of hiding in the basement.
 

Warren and the B1G are at the moment the laughing stock of the country, or at least of the college football world. They can't even tell anyone if there was even a vote taken, or who among the universities voted for what. It's laughable and ridiculous.

Without reading all of the posts, I'm guessing it's been mentioned ad nauseam that Warren's kid will be playing football this fall in the SEC, and yet he's made the determination that the conference he presides over should not play. WTF....

When the SEC, ACC ad Big 12 play their conference schedules, which of course will have a few hiccups along the way, the B1G and Pac 12 look like the biggest fools in the country, and deservedly so
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Warren and the B1G are at the moment the laughing stock of the country, or at least of the college football world. They can't even tell anyone if there was even a vote taken, or who among the universities voted for what. It's laughable and ridiculous.

Without reading all of the posts, I'm guessing it's been mentioned ad nauseam that Warren's kid will be playing football this fall in the SEC, and yet he's made the determination that the conference he presides over should not play. WTF....

When the SEC, ACC ad Big 12 play their conference schedules, which of course will have a few hiccups along the way, the B1G and Pac 12 look like the biggest fools in the country, and deservedly so
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There's no mystery about the vote ... Joan said there was no vote.
 


Block M said:
Sorry, man, but patriotism requires that people of this wonderful country occasionally sacrifice for the greater good. This might mean doing something as inconvenient as wearing a surgical mask in public.
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literally antithetical to our founding document.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Warren and the B1G are at the moment the laughing stock of the country, or at least of the college football world. They can't even tell anyone if there was even a vote taken, or who among the universities voted for what. It's laughable and ridiculous.

Without reading all of the posts, I'm guessing it's been mentioned ad nauseam that Warren's kid will be playing football this fall in the SEC, and yet he's made the determination that the conference he presides over should not play. WTF....

When the SEC, ACC ad Big 12 play their conference schedules, which of course will have a few hiccups along the way, the B1G and Pac 12 look like the biggest fools in the country, and deservedly so
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Its about the long term issues not the short term. I very much doubt that Warren and the Conference will be the laughingstock of the country. If anything the people who fought to play this fall aren't people who care about the potential health consequences of the players and staff.
 


alchemy2u said:
And there are theories that your grand parents came from Mars..

The major flaw in your argument is that those peoples "own decisions" on risk impacts the health, safety and finances of everyone else. So in effect they are not allowing others to make their own decisions on risk. So if you decide to ignore the recommendations and then get sick and need to spend a month on in the ICU, who pays for that? If you decided to take the risk then you should take the full responsibility and be accountable for your actions. And what if your aunt dies from complications of some other sickness because she couldn't get into the hospital because it was full of you and your buddies in the ICU. Should you be held accountable for manslaughter just as a drunk driver is who take a person's life?

If there was a way for you to take you own risks without impacting anyone else then go ahead, but be responsible enough to dig your own grave first.

It is not a matter of personal freedoms, it is a matter of personal responsibility and accountability.
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Hey, if you have all the answers, by all means let us know. The predictions from the "experts" have been wildly wrong. It's reasonable to look for alternate theories. The theories I'm putting out are from doctors, immunologists, etc, not made up from left field.

Fine with me, let's start making everyone who catches COVID and goes to the ICU to pay their own medical bills. Then my aunt will be able to get the care she needs. Good idea.

If you want to reduce your risk to zero of catching COVID you can. Don't leave your house.
 






alchemy2u said:
And there are theories that your grand parents came from Mars..

The major flaw in your argument is that those peoples "own decisions" on risk impacts the health, safety and finances of everyone else. So in effect they are not allowing others to make their own decisions on risk. So if you decide to ignore the recommendations and then get sick and need to spend a month on in the ICU, who pays for that? If you decided to take the risk then you should take the full responsibility and be accountable for your actions. And what if your aunt dies from complications of some other sickness because she couldn't get into the hospital because it was full of you and your buddies in the ICU. Should you be held accountable for manslaughter just as a drunk driver is who take a person's life?

If there was a way for you to take you own risks without impacting anyone else then go ahead, but be responsible enough to dig your own grave first.

It is not a matter of personal freedoms, it is a matter of personal responsibility and accountability.
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I get the gist of what you are saying but where do you draw the line? The motorcyclist who doesn’t wear a helmet and gets brain injured and will require lifetime care? The diabetic who just cannot give up the carbs and needs lifetime meds and then eventually expensive dialysis or amputation surgery? The smoker who gets cancer? So people ignore the recommendations in all of these examples with their “own decisions”. Do we make them pay for care? Do we kick them out of hospitals? I just don’t know if you can make it that simple despite me seeing your point, it’s just too slippery of a slope.
 



PhillyGopher said:
You realize that you are a huge part of this, don't you?
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In this thread, yes. Which is also specifically about COVID. But I'm allowed to be frustrated that I've wasted hours being sucked into a dialogue I also see as negative. Not mutually exclusive
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You mean like change everyone's lives by shutting everything non-essential down, and destroying the economy for nearly two months? That happened, it didn't stop the virus.

This was supposed to be stay at home for just two weeks in order to slow the spread to those 65+ so we don't overwhelm the hospitals. That happened, and hospitals were never overwhelmed across 99% of the country. Places that setup temporary facilities, never used them.

Then the narrative changed to we need to keep destroying peoples businesses, lives, and the economy until there is a vaccine. This after the data continues to show this disease still isn't a threat to more than 99% of young people, and 65+ are the most at risk. That was the same story on day one.

So you're right, we should be having different conversations now. We go back to normal as soon as the media starts discussing the real data and who's really at risk, and not continuing to use fear tactics by suggesting we need to lock down again or wait for a vaccine.
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Sweden didn’t shut down, their economy was destroyed, also higher death rates higher than other Scandinavian countries.

Nobody knows the long-term impact. This isn’t simply live/die. Nobody knows what life-long risks are. A lot of our viruses never disappear from the body and cause issues later in life. Chickenpox causes Shingles. Shingles causes elevated risk of heart attack, stroke and the obvious skin issues. HPV causes cancer. There are plenty of more examples.
 

24 hours later and it’s enlightening to read the replies to this thread. My main takeaway so far is that most people are still way more concerned about the direct threat from the virus (getting sick and dying) than they are about the second order effects from our response to it (economic, etc).

Kind of interesting to me because my understanding (I’m not an expert) is that although we may not be 100% certain about the health risk, it appears to be at least somewhat comparable to the flu (maybe less for healthy college age kids?). What we do know with near certainty is that the fallout from our response in this case is will be enormous (losing billions and destroying a beloved pastime).

I guess time will tell and I may be wrong, but if I were a gambling man (I am), I wouldn’t make the bet that the Big Ten is making.
 

SJUgopher said:
Sweden didn’t shut down, their economy was destroyed, also higher death rates higher than other Scandinavian countries.

Nobody knows the long-term impact. This isn’t simply live/die. Nobody knows what life-long risks are. A lot of our viruses never disappear from the body and cause issues later in life. Chickenpox causes Shingles. Shingles causes elevated risk of heart attack, stroke and the obvious skin issues. HPV causes cancer. There are plenty of more examples.
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Sweden’s GDP is down, likely mainly because of decreased exports, I haven’t looked closely. A global slowdown impacts everyone regardless.

but the US has destroyed so many small businesses with the lockdowns. I would imagine Sweden doesn’t have nearly the same level of damage.
 

Section2 said:
Sweden’s GDP is down, likely mainly because of decreased exports, I haven’t looked closely. A global slowdown impacts everyone regardless.

but the US has destroyed so many small businesses with the lockdowns. I would imagine Sweden doesn’t have nearly the same level of damage.
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The US has destroyed so many small businesses because there have been too many fu**ing infections and too many fu**ing people refused to take precautions. It really is that simple.

Postscript: but I do wish the Big 10 had just kicked the can down the road another 2-3 weeks. They probably could have made it work.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The mask mandate started on July 25th. Minnesota had the highest number of reported cases ever 2 weeks after the mandate began.

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Over the last week cases have dropped slightly. Is that because of masks? Or because we're running on average 5-7k fewer tests per day than we were when the mask mandate began?

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Our positive test rate continues to increase, shouldn't masks have the opposite effect?
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Data shows that the Mask are not working lets get rid of the mandate! considering people don't even wear them and CDC says some mask actually spread it faster then prevent it
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Warren and the B1G are at the moment the laughing stock of the country, or at least of the college football world. They can't even tell anyone if there was even a vote taken, or who among the universities voted for what. It's laughable and ridiculous.

Without reading all of the posts, I'm guessing it's been mentioned ad nauseam that Warren's kid will be playing football this fall in the SEC, and yet he's made the determination that the conference he presides over should not play. WTF....

When the SEC, ACC ad Big 12 play their conference schedules, which of course will have a few hiccups along the way, the B1G and Pac 12 look like the biggest fools in the country, and deservedly so
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1 - I'm not laughing.

2 - Why would they ever disclose whether there was a vote, and who voted in which direction? They all benefit from not disclosing that information because it would make them into political punching bags regardless of their position. You're just pissed because you don't have anyone to blame. Which leads me to my next point...

3 - Warren didn't make a decision. He administers the conference. He wouldn't have had any real power in that room so quit trying to make him into a punching bag for a choice he didn't make.

4 - What I've heard is that they made this decision due to potential myocarditis. If you're a Gopher fan then that word should immediately trigger a memory for you. If that's the concern then I'm all for not playing until they have more information.

5 - If even one player / coach / fan dies because those leagues decided to go forward then it won't be the B1G that looks bad.

Man, I don't even agree with the decision, but come up with a better argument.
 


Block M said:
The US has destroyed so many small businesses because there have been too many fu**ing infections and too many fu**ing people refused to take precautions. It really is that simple.

Postscript: but I do wish the Big 10 had just kicked the can down the road another 2-3 weeks. They probably could have made it work.
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The government picked winners and losers. Walmart and Amazon ect win. Small biz lose.
 

Cedar Rapids Gopher said:
I'm not willing to become China and wear masks all the time.
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They don't wear masks all the time. Sick people wear masks so they don't get their coworkers and friends sick. Honestly, we should probably adopt that habit because their practice is a hell of a lot more sanitary than the way Americans handle it. I can't tell you how many times I've had to go into work / class / whatever with a cold. I would have happily worn a mask if people wouldn't have looked at me like I was an asshole.
 

hello-world said:
They don't wear masks all the time. Sick people wear masks so they don't get their coworkers and friends sick. Honestly, we should probably adopt that habit because their practice is a hell of a lot more sanitary than the way Americans handle it. I can't tell you how many times I've had to go into work / class / whatever with a cold. I would have happily worn a mask if people wouldn't have looked at me like I was an asshole.
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If you are sick you should stay home unless of course it is the common cold. I have been to China and have seen at least 60% wear masks. Are you saying they all have a cold?
 

Cedar Rapids Gopher said:
If you are sick you should stay home unless of course it is the common cold. I have been to China and have seen at least 60% wear masks. Are you saying they all have a cold?
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So have I and that was not my experience. I couldn't estimate a percent because I don't recall seeing more than a handful and they were almost all on public transit. Even if it was that high, think about college classrooms in a Minnesota winter. You don't think half those students have a cold?

I havn't had a job where it was truly acceptable to take a sick day. Either I lost pay or my boss would give me shit. That's not how American culture works in my experience.
 
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hello-world said:
1 - I'm not laughing.

2 - Why would they ever disclose whether there was a vote, and who voted in which direction? They all benefit from not disclosing that information because it would make them into political punching bags regardless of their position. You're just pissed because you don't have anyone to blame. Which leads me to my next point...

3 - Warren didn't make a decision. He administers the conference. He wouldn't have had any real power in that room so quit trying to make him into a punching bag for a choice he didn't make.

4 - What I've heard is that they made this decision due to potential myocarditis. If you're a Gopher fan then that word should immediately trigger a memory for you. If that's the concern then I'm all for not playing until they have more information.

5 - If even one player / coach / fan dies because those leagues decided to go forward then it won't be the B1G that looks bad.

Man, I don't even agree with the decision, but come up with a better argument.
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We know how they voted. Pretending they didn’t vote (unofficially, off the record/show of hands) is insulting.

Warren has had a horrendous coming out party. The BTN interview was catastrophic. Even with that, he may still come out smelling like roses in the end if the the rest of the P5 stumbles.

Gary Tinsley’s death was a tragedy. I’m not sure whether a suspected cause of his myocarditis ever came out but the most common reason is viral. Get your flu shots, guys. None of us knows how many days we have left. Life is precious. Carpe diem.

Players are less likely to die or have complications of myocarditis with the cardiac screenings they’ll receive on campus. Off campus...on your own.
 


#2Gopher said:
Its about the long term issues not the short term. I very much doubt that Warren and the Conference will be the laughingstock of the country. If anything the people who fought to play this fall aren't people who care about the potential health consequences of the players and staff.
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Without QUESTION, the people who truly care about the health and well-being of the players and staff are the ones that want them on campus, in the athletic facility, in a structured environment, where they are getting tested infinitely more frequently than they would elsewhere, and have access to medical resources that they wouldn't have access to anywhere close to where they live
 

hello-world said:
So have I and that was not my experience. I couldn't estimate a percent because I don't recall seeing more than a handful and they were almost all on public transit. Even if it was that high, think about college classrooms in a Minnesota winter. You don't think half those students have a cold?

I havn't had a job where it was truly acceptable to take a sick day. Either I lost pay or my boss would give me shit. That's not how American culture works in my experience.
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My point was a cold was not a big deal. I travel a ton for my job went to China 5 times last year. This year once. So you have a terrible emplorer who doesn't offer sick days?
 

Cedar Rapids Gopher said:
My point was a cold was not a big deal. I travel a ton for my job went to China 5 times last year. This year once. So you have a terrible emplorer who doesn't offer sick days?
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When I'm sick, I don't know if I have allergies, a cold, the flu, bronchitis, or pneumonia. It's awfully hard to say that colds are 'no big deal' when a virus that seems to not effect a good portion of the people that have it is killing hundreds of thousands of people. If I had covid, odds are I wouldn't know that I had covid, I would just feel a little under the weather.

Like most people, I've had a fair number of employers in my life, and at every single one of them, it was frowned on or unacceptable to take unplanned time off. I don't think that's unusual.

I don't get why people are so against face masks. Nobody is advocating wearing them in public forever, and if we're left with a little bit of a culture for wearing masks so you don't get others sick, then that's a good thing.
 

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