The Big 10 made a huge mistake, change my mind...

[golf]

Joel Klatt made some very great points against the Big10 decision the day it happened on the BTN with Dave Resvine. I just searched on Youtube for that footage and it has been totally scrubbed.

In the lost interview Klatt pointed out that:
-goal- Virus was to be flattened, not stopped (15 days)
-Player health is not the issue, if that was the case being in camp or playing is way better
-the economic carnage to the D1 model and the long term loss of opportunities for all athletes beyond football is way worse than any Covid fallout to players
-Big Ten/ P12 Presidents are risk adverse and do not care about the players, only possible PR hit and liability legally- risk adverse group--- they need to be honest and just admit this

Resvine froze up and kept spewing Warren talking points and Klatt kept shooting them down.... it was great.

Joel Klatt is great. This is not the BTN material that has evaporated.

edit:
Klatt made a few more great points mostly never made:

-cases do not equal deaths- so what if cases happen? no big deal, they are 18-21 year olds
.young healthy athletes will almost never die
.most testing positive will not even know they were ill, but can be quarantined
.the at risk others... coaches, staff, ect can be self isolated
.for the "take it home to grandma crowd... "stay away from at risk people if you want to play"
.lastly.... if you are concerned, you do not have to play this year.

Sensible.

Joel Klatt made some very great points against the Big10 decision the day it happened on the BTN with Dave Resvine. I just searched on Youtube for that footage and it has been totally scrubbed.

In the lost interview Klatt pointed out that:
-goal- Virus was to be flattened, not stopped (15 days)
-Player health is not the issue, if that was the case being in camp or playing is way better
-the economic carnage to the D1 model and the long term loss of opportunities for all athletes beyond football is way worse than any Covid fallout to players
-Big Ten/ P12 Presidents are risk adverse and do not care about the players, only possible PR hit and liability legally- risk adverse group--- they need to be honest and just admit this

Resvine froze up and kept spewing Warren talking points and Klatt kept shooting them down.... it was great.

Joel Klatt is great. This is not the BTN material that has evaporated.

edit:
Klatt made a few more great points mostly never made:

-cases do not equal deaths- so what if cases happen? no big deal, they are 18-21 year olds
.young healthy athletes will almost never die
.most testing positive will not even know they were ill, but can be quarantined
.the at risk others... coaches, staff, ect can be self isolated
.for the "take it home to grandma crowd... "stay away from at risk people if you want to play"
.lastly.... if you are concerned, you do not have to play this year.

Interesting. Post the lost video if u find it. Funny how invested even some gh posters are in the big ten not playing. One poster even wonders if some oppose Warren on this issue because of his skin color. The 3 conferences playing of course dont care about their players' well being.

 

[oak_street1981]

Sensible.


Interesting. Post the lost video if u find it. Funny how invested even some gh posters are in the big ten not playing. One poster even wonders if some oppose Warren on this issue because of his skin color. The 3 conferences playing of course dont care about their players' well being.

I'll post it if i find it. Klatt was pretty fired up and Dave Resvine apparently expected Klatt to follow some script and he did not. Priceless..... no where to be found anywhere now. Maybe on my DVR if my Dishnetwork DVR still works... i

With the loss of CFB I just signed up for YouTube TV with the intention of dumping my $135 DishNetwork bill. Like a true Minnesotan, i am stuck i limbo and do not want to give up the old service, as it comforts me, even though YTTV gives me all I need.

Music interlude

 

[golf]

I’m not trained in this area so certainly could be missing something, but the data just fits this story so very well it basically tells the story. So once I saw the blurb on the T-Cells being present for 50% of Americans, it made all the sense in the world when paired with the data.

Pardon my ignorance, but is it possible then that new york is experiencing very few problems now because 20% of new yorkers have the antibody?

 

[MplsGopher]

I believe something like this, is the idea: https://www.livescience.com/common-cold-coronaviruses-t-cells-covid-19-immunity.html

My question is: just because a person has T-cells from being previously infected with common cold coronaviruses in the past, and thus experiences mild or no symptoms from being exposed to sars2 because of those T-cells .... does that necessarily mean they never become contagious to others, at any time? Probably more research would need to be done to answer that question.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Pardon my ignorance, but is it possible then that new york is experiencing very few problems now because 20% of new yorkers have the antibody?

IIRC Generally, I don't believe 20% is nearly enough to impact the speed of spreading a virus that spreads easily. If the virus is spreading slower than anticipated or expected, it seems unlikely that it is due to just a 1/5 immunity, other factors would have to be at play.

Granted that's all based on heard immunity, to other viruses and etc.

 

[golf]

IIRC Generally, I don't believe 20% is nearly enough to impact the speed of spreading a virus that spreads easily. If the virus is spreading slower than anticipated or expected, it seems unlikely that it is due to just a 1/5 immunity, other factors would have to be at play.

Granted that's all based on heard immunity, to other viruses and etc.

Poock is pointing out that tcells might be effectively providing resistance in 50% of the population. Therefore the number is 70%, not 20%. If I understand correctly.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Poock is pointing out that tcells might be effectively providing resistance in 50% of the population. Therefore the number is 70%, not 20%. If I understand correctly.

If true yeah that would change a lot of things. But 20% isn't enough to impact anything, at least not when it comes to traditional heard immunity. I think we're all normally exposed to just too many people for 1/5 being immune to slow anything ... all by itself.

In the meantime people going out less, fewer big gatherings, masks, all the other steps taken.

It would be really hard to say "well this area has slowed" it must be because of X.... and not all the Y,Z,A,B,C,D steps going on...

 

[golf]

If true yeah that would change a lot of things. But 20% isn't enough to impact anything, at least not when it comes to traditional heard immunity. I think we're all normally exposed to just too many people for 1/5 being immune to slow anything ... all by itself.

In the meantime people going out less, fewer big gatherings, masks, all the other steps taken.

It would be really hard to say "well this area has slowed" it must be because of X.... and not all the Y,Z,A,B,C,D steps going on...

Makes sense. Seems like the tcell issue is a big deal so will be interesting how that plays out. The other issue of course is that there is just so little risk to these players themselves even if they get the virus. So test and quarantine if necessary. Older coaches should take precautions.

Allow a minimum amount of fans into games.

 

[Dances With Gophers]

What about the referees? Average age = 52.

Hospitalization rate = 4x higher
Death rate = 30x higher

Cases, Data, and Surveillance

Cases, data, and surveillance to track and analyze COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

 

[gopherguy]

Makes sense. Seems like the tcell issue is a big deal so will be interesting how that plays out. The other issue of course is that there is just so little risk to these players themselves even if they get the virus. So test and quarantine if necessary. Older coaches should take precautions.

Allow a minimum amount of fans into games.

From the Mayo Clinic:
However, there are some major problems with relying on community infection to create herd immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19. First, it isn't yet clear if infection with the COVID-19 virus makes a person immune to future infection.

Research suggests that after infection with some coronaviruses, reinfection with the same virus — though usually mild and only happening in a fraction of people — is possible after a period of months or years. Further research is needed to determine the protective effect of antibodies to the virus in those who have been infected.

Even if infection with the COVID-19 virus creates long-lasting immunity, a large number of people would have to become infected to reach the herd immunity threshold. Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic. If many people become sick with COVID-19 at once, the health care system could quickly become overwhelmed. This amount of infection could also lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have chronic conditions.
<https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...th/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808>

 

[golf]

From the Mayo Clinic:
However, there are some major problems with relying on community infection to create herd immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19. First, it isn't yet clear if infection with the COVID-19 virus makes a person immune to future infection.

Research suggests that after infection with some coronaviruses, reinfection with the same virus — though usually mild and only happening in a fraction of people — is possible after a period of months or years. Further research is needed to determine the protective effect of antibodies to the virus in those who have been infected.

Even if infection with the COVID-19 virus creates long-lasting immunity, a large number of people would have to become infected to reach the herd immunity threshold. Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic. If many people become sick with COVID-19 at once, the health care system could quickly become overwhelmed. This amount of infection could also lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have chronic conditions.
<https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...th/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808>

Interesting, thanks. Do they have any info on the tcell issue?

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

What about the referees? Average age = 52.

Hospitalization rate = 4x higher
Death rate = 30x higher

Cases, Data, and Surveillance

Cases, data, and surveillance to track and analyze COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

Referees is a good point. Like anyone else in our society right now, if you have concerns or if you are a person at greater risk, I would consider not working games this fall. All others, no reason at all to not keep working

 

[Piscator]

Georgia State QB Colasurdo Out For Season With Heart "Condition" Due To Covid-19 Infection

 

[MGGopher]

With the loss of CFB I just signed up for YouTube TV with the intention of dumping my $135 DishNetwork bill. Like a true Minnesotan, i am stuck i limbo and do not want to give up the old service, as it comforts me, even though YTTV gives me all I need.

Good money-saving move. Funny you mention that, as I actually paused even my YTTV subscription last month due to the dearth of sports (which was pretty much all I used live TV for the past few years). I'm taking a wait and see approach on renewing if/when the remaining conferences start playing. I can pretty much find streams of any game -- college or pro -- online, but YTTV is incredibly good and user-friendly.

 

[MplsGopher]

Referees is a good point. Like anyone else in our society right now, if you have concerns or if you are a person at greater risk, I would consider not working games this fall. All others, no reason at all to not keep working

“I would consider not flying on the 737 Max, but if another person chooses to do that (or can’t afford to give up their non-refundable ticket), no reason to shut down the whole fleet!”

F’ing dunce.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

IF - and I say IF -the sole reason for the B1G's decision is potential liability, I will point out that University Presidents and Chancellors do have a fiduciary responsibility to the schools they represent.

If a President took a position that exposed the school to potential legal liability, I suspect their Board of Regents would be very upset.

Sure, I would like to see the Gophers play football this fall.

But I understand why this decision was made.

 

[Halsey Hall]

Talk to the GA State QB

 

[PoockItInfor6]

IF - and I say IF -the sole reason for the B1G's decision is potential liability, I will point out that University Presidents and Chancellors do have a fiduciary responsibility to the schools they represent.

If a President took a position that exposed the school to potential legal liability, I suspect their Board of Regents would be very upset.

Sure, I would like to see the Gophers play football this fall.

But I understand why this decision was made.

This most definitely was the reasoning... I feel like the decision was made too early... They could have delayed the start 2-3 weeks (especially with the shorter schedule), and then seen how The next 2 weeks went... Since the Trends are in the right direction and there is some likelihood we are actually seeing the benefits of herd immunity...delaying a couple of weeks was a much safer decision (since the money from football is also a huge part of the U’s operating budget).

 

[GoldenRodents]

You had better check where you are getting the "data" that you claim justifies you conclusions.
Here is an op ed from a group of medical professionals in Sweden. They says that the infection rate in Sweden is at most 10% which is no where near heard immunity (even for the flu).

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...munity-drove-up-death-toll-column/5472100002/

When you add up those who have recovered, those with natural immunity from prior corona exposure, asymptomatics, and those with mild symptoms, you have included just about every healthy individual under the age of 70. There is no place for the virus left to go except long term care and nursing homes. That is herd immunity on the cheap. It's happening.

 

[GoldenRodents]

The other place he endlessly praises, South Dakota, now has the highest # of active cases it's had since mid-May. There are already outbreaks on some of the football teams beginning practice.

So what? Every single one of the football players will recover. Healthy young people bounce back quickly from this. Do we shut down the country for the flu?

This is the weakness of your argument. Why pretend this is a terminal or chronic disease. It's not for healthy young people. And most of the deaths are among those close to death.

So hide the aged and infirm and let the rest of us live.

Just like Sweden and South Dakota.

 

[GoldenRodents]

Sensible.


Interesting. Post the lost video if u find it. Funny how invested even some gh posters are in the big ten not playing. One poster even wonders if some oppose Warren on this issue because of his skin color. The 3 conferences playing of course dont care about their players' well being.

"More healthy college students will die of alcohol poisoning before Labor Day than will ever die from COVID" -- @alexberenson

 

[MplsGopher]

How many older, more susceptible people will become infected with alcohol poisoning by college students?

 

[MplsGopher]

This most definitely was the reasoning... I feel like the decision was made too early... They could have delayed the start 2-3 weeks (especially with the shorter schedule), and then seen how The next 2 weeks went... Since the Trends are in the right direction and there is some likelihood we are actually seeing the benefits of herd immunity...delaying a couple of weeks was a much safer decision (since the money from football is also a huge part of the U’s operating budget).

The athletics budget, is a tiny fraction of the U’s operating budget (billions ... which I’m told is pronounced “beeh-yuns”).

 

[PoockItInfor6]

The athletics budget, is a tiny fraction of the U’s operating budget (billions ... which I’m told is pronounced “beeh-yuns”).

It appears that roughly 3% of the U’s revenue comes from athletics ($125m / $4b). Not sure if it’s been discussed in here, but many other revenue sources for the U are also under COVID pressure... Students not wanting to house on campus, students taking a gap year... The school could have $500m shortage on its top line when you add it all up...

 

[MplsGopher]

It appears that roughly 3% of the U’s revenue comes from athletics ($125m / $4b). Not sure if it’s been discussed in here, but many other revenue sources for the U are also under COVID pressure... Students not wanting to house on campus, students taking a gap year... The school could have $500m shortage on its top line when you add it all up...

I disagree that the U sees any of that athletics “revenue”, as it mostly gets spent by the athletics spent anyway.

To your broader point, absolutely. Covid has been a shock to the economy worldwide. It’s a one year blip that we simply have to try to survive as best possible. Once the full social experience (what kids actually want, and pay for) is back, kids will be flocking back.

 

[PoockItInfor6]

I disagree that the U sees any of that athletics “revenue”, as it mostly gets spent by the athletics spent anyway.

To your broader point, absolutely. Covid has been a shock to the economy worldwide. It’s a one year blip that we simply have to try to survive as best possible. Once the full social experience (what kids actually want, and pay for) is back, kids will be flocking back.

The problem is that some of the costs of the athletic programs are fixed, so without the football revenue it becomes the broader U’s financial problem. I think the question really is how can the world minimize the costs we pay on both a macro and a personal level... I know we have different answers to that question today, but I do expect that we will have the same answer to that question in a couple of months (at least on a go forward basis).

 

[MplsGopher]

The problem is that some of the costs of the athletic programs are fixed, so without the football revenue it becomes the broader U’s financial problem. I think the question really is how can the world minimize the costs we pay on both a macro and a personal level... I know we have different answers to that question today, but I do expect that we will have the same answer to that question in a couple of months (at least on a go forward basis).

Correct on the U needing to absorb that financial fixed burden this year. What else can they do? Let the bank/lenders claim the facilities? No. Probably seek a state emergency grant.

In a few months I suspect perception will be much, much more hopeful, with multiple vaccine candidates passing phase 3. And they’ll be able to learn from which areas the other confs fail (and they will).

If all the other confs are forced to cancel their seasons, that probably takes some pressure off to hold the spring. We’ll see what happens.

 

[golf]

It's all politics. 25/26 states with repub governors are playing high school fall football while 15/22 states with dem governors arent. 2 undecided.

See the same divide when listening to media politicals.

3 conferences playing are in repub area. Pac10 dem country, big10 a mix.

No doubt even on the gh board those that want a fall season voted for trump and those that dont will be biden-voters.

All political. Therefore i say let kids/parents/schools make their own decisions regarding playing football this fall. Allow options.

 

[PoockItInfor6]

Correct on the U needing to absorb that financial fixed burden this year. What else can they do? Let the bank/lenders claim the facilities? No. Probably seek a state emergency grant.

In a few months I suspect perception will be much, much more hopeful, with multiple vaccine candidates passing phase 3. And they’ll be able to learn from which areas the other confs fail (and they will).

If all the other confs are forced to cancel their seasons, that probably takes some pressure off to hold the spring. We’ll see what happens.

I suspect we’ll see things similarly at that point for reasons other than a vaccine

 

[PoockItInfor6]

It's all politics. 25/26 states with repub governors are playing high school fall football while 15/22 states with dem governors arent. 2 undecided.

See the same divide when listening to media politicals.

3 conferences playing are in repub area. Pac10 dem country, big10 a mix.

No doubt even on the gh board those that want a fall season voted for trump and those that dont will be biden-voters.

All political. Therefore i say let kids/parents/schools make their own decisions regarding playing football this fall. Allow options.

I did not know those stats on governors relative to HS football!