Student Section Attendence: who is ultimately responsible for this problem?

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CP Gopher said:
Here's what the students need on game day:
1. A human snooze button to gently remind them every five minutes that it's time to wake up.
2. A free catered breakfast buffet at home.
3. A ride to the game in a minivan equipped with a video game console.
4. Pregame entertainment in a heated venue with free beer and an unlimited variety of games, music and NetFlix options.
5. Seats at the game in a heated section with cushioned individual chairs and free beer.
6. Adults assigned to let them know how important they are every five minutes.
7. Minivans to drive them back home to parties with free food and beer.

Am I missing anything?
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A rich girl with daddy issues to sit next to them and party with after the game.
 

Schnauzer said:
Interesting that the one post of mine that you did NOT comment on was the step by step recount of Gopher Football results IN CONFERENCE through the decades after you had declared "doormat" status for "decades". For a response to your most recent falsehood, see my earlier reply.
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So those numbers I listed are false?

The problems is that while you say that we've had down years, the real problem is that we haven't had any good years. What's the best season since 1967? 2003? Where we finished at the Sun Bowl and ranked 17/20? We then followed that up with another losing season in the Big Ten and that pretty well deflated any real sense of optimism. 35% in the Big Ten in the last 40 years and no conference titles/BCS bowl games. Yeah, that sucks. Even programs like Duke, Indiana, etc., have won their conferences since then.

If you think speaking basic facts is what is deflating attendance, I'd say you're far more delusional than my initial premonition. Blaming the fans for not properly spinning the ineptitude that has been Gopher football is like blaming the guy who gets food poisoning for not having a stronger constitution.
 

We can argue the difference between terms used to describe the team all day long. I'd argue all day about your catch-all "suck" and "doormat" categories you want to pigeon hole your "favorite" team into. In the end, I think you are using severe words to generalize something that isn't as severe as your blustering terms. I won't be changing your mind. I'm also not seeing much use in the discussion and have noticed similar "takes" from you on multiple other topics in the past. So, rather than engage in an eternal urination contest... I'm thinking a click on the 'ignore list' will save me future wasted time on my keyboard.

People have been commenting for the entire length of this thread about how the atmosphere isn't set up well for college kids, and numerous citing of other similar programs (with similar history of mediocre football) that manage to put on a good time for the college kids, and draw them into the stadium (or the Gophers themselves that despite being a "doormat" drew student numbers pretty well at the Metrodome once they found and developed a tailgate culture). All good points, and all something you have proven numerous times incapable of understanding. In the end, I can live in a world where you feel the Gophers have been worse than they have been, and student attendance is only driven by the historical success of the team from years before they were born. So be it.
 

Schnauzer said:
In the end, I can live in a world where you feel the Gophers have been worse than they have been, and student attendance is only driven by the historical success of the team from years before they were born. So be it.
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That's fine, but that's not what I've said at all. If we were great in the 80s, but still had done nothing since then, the energy would eventually die out. The reason why the gopher fanbase skews older is because that's the only demographic that can remember a time where the Gophers didn't teeter between mediocre and lousy every single year. It will take years of sustained success against Big Ten teams to change the atmosphere and level of fan support.

That, again, is undeniable. If you need to block me to delude yourself of that basic fact, knock yourself out. You're the one that started replying to me in the first place.
 

Gopherprof said:
You're being your typical hardcore literalist self, which is fine, but "reality" is far more fluid than you're wanting to acknowledge it.
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"Reality" is never fluid. It's what actually happened. We actually won those games by cheating. Is the winner of an unfair game a winner? If I beat Usain Bolt in a race a la that movie The Dictator, did I really beat him?
 


FreakyDeke said:
"Reality" is never fluid. It's what actually happened. We actually won those games by cheating. Is the winner of an unfair game a winner? If I beat Usain Bolt in a race a la that movie The Dictator, did I really beat him?
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Reality is almost always fluid and subjective. If you win a race by cheating, and everyone thinks you've won, did you actually win? It depends on your objective, but if it's to cross the finish line before Mr. Bolt, and you accomplish doing that, then, yes, you've won.

Also, you can't say we won those games by cheating. We won those games and we cheated. That's not the same thing.
 

Gopherprof said:
Reality is almost always fluid and subjective. If you win a race by cheating, and everyone thinks you've won, did you actually win? It depends on your objective, but if it's to cross the finish line before Mr. Bolt, and you accomplish doing that, then, yes, you've won.

Also, you can't say we won those games by cheating. We won those games and we cheated. That's not the same thing.
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No, reality still isn't fluid. You're definition of winning may be different. To me, when you say "winning a game" it's implied that it's "winning a fair game". Unless you're in Vegas, I guess. You're right that we didn't cheat in the games, but who knows if those players would have been eligible, had extra time to prep because they didn't do homework, whatever. It is different, though, I'll give you that.
 

FreakyDeke said:
No, reality still isn't fluid. You're definition of winning may be different. To me, when you say "winning a game" it's implied that it's "winning a fair game". Unless you're in Vegas, I guess. You're right that we didn't cheat in the games, but who knows if those players would have been eligible, had extra time to prep because they didn't do homework, whatever. It is different, though, I'll give you that.
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That right there is subjectivity. The NCAA might not recognize those wins, but that doesn't mean they can control what people think and remember actually happened. As part of your own subjectivity you can decide whether or not you acknowledge those wins, but you can't make that decision for others.

Think about it another way. If we held on every single play, but it wasn't called, and we won the game, is that cheating? Technically we are breaking the rules of the game, but if we didn't get caught who would care? Now, you could of course say that both teams were dealing with the same refs, and thus it is "fair", but some people would still say the players were cheating. It's not that black and white.
 

I agree with almost every post GopherProf has made in this thread. The huge thing with Gopher football is nobody born in the 70's(!) much less the 80's or 90's has experienced a really good season of Gopher football. There's been zero reward for those fans who have stuck through the frequent 2-6/3-5 Big Ten seasons. Pouring salt to that wound is watching schools like Wisconsin and Iowa (schools fans used to expect to be better than) win Big Ten titles and go to BCS/NYD bowl games. Gopher football has not been mediocre, it's been bad. During Glen Mason's ten year tenure at Minnesota, the Gophers were one of only two teams in the conference to never finish in the top 3...that's horrifically bad and some people think it was a mistake to get rid of him! Want an even more damning stat? During that same time frame, Minnesota never beat a team that finished in the top 3 of the Big Ten. People need to worry much more about the product on the field and less about who is in the stands. It's very rare to find a school with great fan support where the program is basically a non-factor on the field. Improve the product on the field to the point where every incoming freshman sees at least one season where the Gophers are legit conference contenders during their 4-5 years on campus and then worry if students still are not attending games.

The idea of "cheating" in basketball (or major college sports in general) is hilarious to me. If you think Clem Haskins "cheated" compared to the rest of his competitors, you are extremely naive.
 



So, eg9, just WHICH admin person would you believe should be responsible to INSURE that Gopher Coaches learn to cheat the way EVERY other hoops coach in the college ranks cheats? And WHY do you think the Gophers have historically hired so MANY hoops coaches who get caught cheating by the NCAA when all the hoops coaches coaching against them do NOT get caught cheating?

And how will this impact the student section eg9?

This sounds like a job for the new norwood then, doesn't it eg9?. He considers himself to be quite the basketball guy. I am certain that he believes he can hire a hoops coach who can cheat like you infer ALL the other hoops coaches around cheat. And does v-7 profile the kind of cheating hoops assistant coach that is just like all the other cheating assistant hoops coaches on all the other major conference and major independent schools around, eg9?

I'm sure that you find cheating hoops coaches...and cheating coaches of all the other major college sports quite amusing...no make that, rather hilarious.

Have a good night way down there in iowa, eg9. Or, do you think prexy k would be a better fit to find a cheater good enough at cheating that he/she wouldn't get caught... I'll bet that Brewster must have been a really hilarious cheater/recruiter/coach'em-up-kind-of-coach, the way you dug him so much...so how did that brewball work out for you eg9?



; 0 )
 

imthewalrus said:
So, eg9, just WHICH admin person would you believe should be responsible to INSURE that Gopher Coaches learn to cheat the way EVERY other hoops coach in the college ranks cheats? And WHY do you think the Gophers have historically hired so MANY hoops coaches who get caught cheating by the NCAA when all the hoops coaches coaching against them do NOT get caught cheating?
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When I read this post in my head I shouted the word NCAA because it is in all caps. Sigh.
 

EG#9 said:
I agree with almost every post GopherProf has made in this thread. The huge thing with Gopher football is nobody born in the 70's(!) much less the 80's or 90's has experienced a really good season of Gopher football. There's been zero reward for those fans who have stuck through the frequent 2-6/3-5 Big Ten seasons. Pouring salt to that wound is watching schools like Wisconsin and Iowa (schools fans used to expect to be better than) win Big Ten titles and go to BCS/NYD bowl games. Gopher football has not been mediocre, it's been bad. During Glen Mason's ten year tenure at Minnesota, the Gophers were one of only two teams in the conference to never finish in the top 3...that's horrifically bad and some people think it was a mistake to get rid of him! Want an even more damning stat? During that same time frame, Minnesota never beat a team that finished in the top 3 of the Big Ten. People need to worry much more about the product on the field and less about who is in the stands. It's very rare to find a school with great fan support where the program is basically a non-factor on the field. Improve the product on the field to the point where every incoming freshman sees at least one season where the Gophers are legit conference contenders during their 4-5 years on campus and then worry if students still are not attending games.

The idea of "cheating" in basketball (or major college sports in general) is hilarious to me. If you think Clem Haskins "cheated" compared to the rest of his competitors, you are extremely naive.
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Thank you. Seriously.

Far too many people on this board want to eat each other alive and try to figure out who is a true fan and who is a troll. They make thread after thread bitching about the students, or people who leave early, or people who don't stand up. My position is that anyone who still spends time, money, and energy on Gopher football after 40 years should be given a medal, and we should all appreciate each other as the people who care enough to still give a damn after all these years of getting almost nothing in return but disappointment.
 

Gopherprof said:
Thank you. Seriously.

Far too many people on this board want to eat each other alive and try to figure out who is a true fan and who is a troll. They make thread after thread bitching about the students, or people who leave early, or people who don't stand up. My position is that anyone who still spends time, money, and energy on Gopher football after 40 years should be given a medal, and we should all appreciate each other as the people who care enough to still give a damn after all these years of getting almost nothing in return but disappointment.
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You are real winner. I mean whiner. Seriously, quite feeling sorry for yourself and start looking at the positives that are happening now right under your nose. Your catharsis may be good for your soul but there comes a time for you to move on.
 



Killjoy said:
You are real winner. I mean whiner. Seriously, quite feeling sorry for yourself and start looking at the positives that are happening now right under your nose. Your catharsis may be good for your soul but there comes a time for you to move on.
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What am I whining about or feeling sorry for myself for?

If you actually read the post you quoted, I said that we should stop complaining about what the fans do or don't do (something you do constantly, frankly).

The OP asked why there isn't more student/fan support. I said it's because we lose way too many games against our peers. That's also not complaining or whining; it's just a statement of fact.
 

Gopherprof said:
Thank you. Seriously.

Far too many people on this board want to eat each other alive and try to figure out who is a true fan and who is a troll. They make thread after thread bitching about the students, or people who leave early, or people who don't stand up. My position is that anyone who still spends time, money, and energy on Gopher football after 40 years should be given a medal, and we should all appreciate each other as the people who care enough to still give a damn after all these years of getting almost nothing in return but disappointment.
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+1
 

Gopherprof said:
What am I whining about or feeling sorry for myself for?

If you actually read the post you quoted, I said that we should stop complaining about what the fans do or don't do (something you do constantly, frankly).

The OP asked why there isn't more student/fan support. I said it's because we lose way too many games against our peers. That's also not complaining or whining; it's just a statement of fact.
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I am guilty as charged. Unfortunately I was getting tired of the same old same old on this string and quickly and incorrectly reacted to what appeared initially to me to be walling in self pity. Upon further review I can clearly see that was not your attention. My apologies.
 

gophmeister said:
No. I don't think in the near term anyone should be assigned blame for things that are beyond their control. If in 4-5 years the team is doing poorly or a successful team is playing in front of empty seats, then we start that discussion. But if you want me to assign responsibilities Coach Kill is responsible for coaching the team and whoever is in charge of selling tickets in responsible for student section.
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And, I would have to agree with your conclusion. The new norwood needs to turn over a new leaf and finally start fancying himself as a football guy. The next major revenue sport event at the U of M will be a Football Game at TCF BANK STADIUM. It's time for the new norwood to tackle the problems facing the Game Day Saturday setting in our beautiful Football Stadium.

Coach Kill and his staff are working hard to be ready. Now it is time for the norwood to move the focus from the hardwood to the Gridiron and Goal Posts and the B1G challenges that face our student section. I'd say that it is pretty clear that the administration...especially the athletic director needs to assume his duties and start fancying himself to be a football guy...a hockey guy...in addition to his comfort zone area of hoops. He can NOT be merely a hoops-hound...a "net-head" and he can't rely solely on his hoops extensions, buyouts, firings and new hires to pull him through the challenges facing the student section...a section that should make up a full 20% of those in attendance for every home football game.

It is time for this new norwood to finally address stadium issues, the Game Day Saturday situation. He has been hired by prexy k to be everything to every program...group of fans and everything related to the U of M athletic programs. Lay down your sneakers and quit dribbling that basketball new norwood. Have hockey high on your goal list. Put the HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE into TCF BANK STADIUM. Start working overtime on the student section problem. Find a way to help the students help themselves to become a REAL B1G student section.

Find ways to remind this norwood that he HAS to fancy himself to be a reall football guy too...

; 0 )
 

imthewalrus said:
And, I would have to agree with your conclusion. The new norwood needs to turn over a new leaf and finally start fancying himself as a football guy. The next major revenue sport event at the U of M will be a Football Game at TCF BANK STADIUM. It's time for the new norwood to tackle the problems facing the Game Day Saturday setting in our beautiful Football Stadium.

Coach Kill and his staff are working hard to be ready. Now it is time for the norwood to move the focus from the hardwood to the Gridiron and Goal Posts and the B1G challenges that face our student section. I'd say that it is pretty clear that the administration...especially the athletic director needs to assume his duties and start fancying himself to be a football guy...a hockey guy...in addition to his comfort zone area of hoops. He can NOT be merely a hoops-hound...a "net-head" and he can't rely solely on his hoops extensions, buyouts, firings and new hires to pull him through the challenges facing the student section...a section that should make up a full 20% of those in attendance for every home football game.

It is time for this new norwood to finally address stadium issues, the Game Day Saturday situation. He has been hired by prexy k to be everything to every program...group of fans and everything related to the U of M athletic programs. Lay down your sneakers and quit dribbling that basketball new norwood. Have hockey high on your goal list. Put the HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE into TCF BANK STADIUM. Start working overtime on the student section problem. Find a way to help the students help themselves to become a REAL B1G student section.

Find ways to remind this norwood that he HAS to fancy himself to be a reall football guy too...

; 0 )
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Well said ^^^^^^ Norwood needs to switch over to football now and focus on his cash cow.

But winning still cures everything (in most cases). It will be interesting to see if we go (4-0) non-conference....will we get a full student section for the Iowa game? I think that will show where the students heads are at this year. I understand that those are four games we will be favored in, but it's still undefeated and playing for the pig.
 

Parski1 said:
Well said ^^^^^^ Norwood needs to switch over to football now and focus on his cash cow.

But winning still cures everything (in most cases). It will be interesting to see if we go (4-0) non-conference....will we get a full student section for the Iowa game? I think that will show where the students heads are at this year. I understand that those are four games we will be favored in, but it's still undefeated and playing for the pig.
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Only on the GopherHole on the football blog would we find such arrogant people who believe that it is an either or situation. Thank god Norwood is smarter than that.
 

imthewalrus said:
new norwood, new norwood, the norwood, new norwood, this norwood (and that's just from your most recent post)
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You pious POS. You started this thread with the false intention of finding someone that we can "hold their feet to the fire" if we don't reach the majestic heights of the Mason era, and the entire time you have had your target in mind.

There was no end game for you. This was your game the entire time. Does it make you feel better now that you have publicized that target?
 

If you took all the season ticket holders and moved them down to only the lowest rows of the rest of the stadium (like the students do with general admission) the resulting "holes" in the upper deck would match the students. It's not just the students that don't show up, lots of regular season ticket holders don't come to the stadium too.
 

Can we drape a large black curtain over the empty part of the student section?
 


As a soon to be graduate in MAY, I was a Freshman when TCF opened. My class is the first graduating class to see 4 years at the bank, so I'd like to think I can speak a little about the viewpoint of a student.

I am a huge college football fan, missed only a couple games in my 4 years here. The problem - not every student is a huge college football fan. There is no way you can fill up the student section (5,000 seats?? I have no idea) on diehard football fans, because that number doesn't exist. The incoming freshman class has around 5,000 students, and I bet you maybe have 300 die hard football fans (6%). Remember this is still a great academic university - a lot of the students coming in don't have a lot of sports knowledge.

Even though the gophers weren't B1G contenders, we still filled up the student section my freshman year. Why? Because of the excitement and hype! Non football fans and casual sports fans were thrilled to go! It was a fun student section because it was packed. Non fans wanted to go because everyone else was going to go there and have FUN.

Then what happened? It got old to the non sports fans. Why? Because it really isn't that much fun for a student as a casual fan. Even though some of you older people like to say it isn't as simple as being "fun" for students - no offense, but you're completely wrong. Trust me, as a college football fan I wish this wasn't the case, but it is. Drinking is frowned upon, but more importantly, there isn't any areas for students to go. EVERY single gameday, I'd go to house/garage parties and 90% of the party wasn't going to the game. Of the 10% going to the game, a good chunk of them ended up giving away their ticket because they were having too much fun.

If you think college kids think past the next 2 minutes of their lives Thursday - Saturday, you're wrong. They simply want to have a good time. If the good time is by the stadium at pregame, they will go. If you could get the party out of dinkytown houses and by the stadium, there would be more kids than seats available. I've begged for my friends to go to games, but there very content being at houses.
 

captain.hindsight said:
As a soon to be graduate in MAY, I was a Freshman when TCF opened. My class is the first graduating class to see 4 years at the bank, so I'd like to think I can speak a little about the viewpoint of a student.

I am a huge college football fan, missed only a couple games in my 4 years here. The problem - not every student is a huge college football fan. There is no way you can fill up the student section (5,000 seats?? I have no idea) on diehard football fans, because that number doesn't exist. The incoming freshman class has around 5,000 students, and I bet you maybe have 300 die hard football fans (6%). Remember this is still a great academic university - a lot of the students coming in don't have a lot of sports knowledge.

Even though the gophers weren't B1G contenders, we still filled up the student section my freshman year. Why? Because of the excitement and hype! Non football fans and casual sports fans were thrilled to go! It was a fun student section because it was packed. Non fans wanted to go because everyone else was going to go there and have FUN.

Then what happened? It got old to the non sports fans. Why? Because it really isn't that much fun for a student as a casual fan. Even though some of you older people like to say it isn't as simple as being "fun" for students - no offense, but you're completely wrong. Trust me, as a college football fan I wish this wasn't the case, but it is. Drinking is frowned upon, but more importantly, there isn't any areas for students to go. EVERY single gameday, I'd go to house/garage parties and 90% of the party wasn't going to the game. Of the 10% going to the game, a good chunk of them ended up giving away their ticket because they were having too much fun.

If you think college kids think past the next 2 minutes of their lives Thursday - Saturday, you're wrong. They simply want to have a good time. If the good time is by the stadium at pregame, they will go. If you could get the party out of dinkytown houses and by the stadium, there would be more kids than seats available. I've begged for my friends to go to games, but there very content being at houses.
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If a student is 21 (the legal drinking age), there are places all around the stadium that are fun. Sally's, Stub & Herb's, The Hole, BWW are all a blast for the pregame and all are about a two minute walk from the stadium.
My question is what kind of fun the under-21 students are looking for?
 

CP Gopher said:
If a student is 21 (the legal drinking age), there are places all around the stadium that are fun. Sally's, Stub & Herb's, The Hole, BWW are all a blast for the pregame and all are about a two minute walk from the stadium.
My question is what kind of fun the under-21 students are looking for?
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Not facepainting.
The culture of gameday needs to change from what it is now, to one that allows students the freedom to gather and party unmolested by either police or administration prudes.
Nothing unsafe, nothing out of control. Simply allow the kids places to gather and do what college kids do, drink beer, hit on the opposite sex, be stupid(safely), and mingle with people their own age. That means opportunities other than everything you listed above.
There are no tailgate spaces, no open spaces, no private lots, and frat row is under super secret probation.
Other college campuses seem to find a way to allow the kids one day a week when they can let their hair down and support their football program at least for a few hours. Why can't it be that way here?
 

I don't see how the university or police can be expected to just look the other way when students under 21 are drinking. Lawsuit waiting to happen.
I do think, however, that some type of activity (non alcohol) should be available for under aged students before games.
 

Honest question: Is there a logical space near the stadium that the U could open up to student tailgating without pissing off or relocating major donors?

Easy solution: Open up the tailgate lot to be "free" and execute 1 of the following to break even on the cost of operating the lot (cleanup and Police presence purely for general safety):

1. Increase the Stadium Fee (do students still pay that?) or a recreation fee by $1. Any body with a student ID can "park" or gather in the lot and tailgate.
OR
2. Increase season ticket prices by $1 or $2 to build in tailgating.

I think option 1. is a better choice since you can't guarantee season ticket sales and you wouldn't require a ticket to the game to tailgate. Sure, the U would lose a ton of revenue from parking passes but the assumption here is that the U would rather have the added value of a party like atmosphere that isn't a watered down version of a kids zone at a county fair. Students of age could go to the bars - but not all of their friends are of age, and it is significantly cheaper to tailgate given the constraints of your average college budget.

I want to see students pulling a keg in a wagon to go park and tailgate before a game because it is the thing to do. The U can get this done, and the fans can do their part to enhance the Gameday experience (more tailgaters, boosters advocating for more student involvement, etc.)
 

captain.hindsight said:
As a soon to be graduate in MAY, I was a Freshman when TCF opened. My class is the first graduating class to see 4 years at the bank, so I'd like to think I can speak a little about the viewpoint of a student.

I am a huge college football fan, missed only a couple games in my 4 years here. The problem - not every student is a huge college football fan. There is no way you can fill up the student section (5,000 seats?? I have no idea) on diehard football fans, because that number doesn't exist. The incoming freshman class has around 5,000 students, and I bet you maybe have 300 die hard football fans (6%). Remember this is still a great academic university - a lot of the students coming in don't have a lot of sports knowledge.

Even though the gophers weren't B1G contenders, we still filled up the student section my freshman year. Why? Because of the excitement and hype! Non football fans and casual sports fans were thrilled to go! It was a fun student section because it was packed. Non fans wanted to go because everyone else was going to go there and have FUN.

Then what happened? It got old to the non sports fans. Why? Because it really isn't that much fun for a student as a casual fan. Even though some of you older people like to say it isn't as simple as being "fun" for students - no offense, but you're completely wrong. Trust me, as a college football fan I wish this wasn't the case, but it is. Drinking is frowned upon, but more importantly, there isn't any areas for students to go. EVERY single gameday, I'd go to house/garage parties and 90% of the party wasn't going to the game. Of the 10% going to the game, a good chunk of them ended up giving away their ticket because they were having too much fun.

If you think college kids think past the next 2 minutes of their lives Thursday - Saturday, you're wrong. They simply want to have a good time. If the good time is by the stadium at pregame, they will go. If you could get the party out of dinkytown houses and by the stadium, there would be more kids than seats available. I've begged for my friends to go to games, but there very content being at houses.
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Captain Hindsight = Captain Insight. I think you totally nailed it. The administration and the Mpls authorities need to loosen up. Thanks for being a hard core fan and recruiting other students to the action!
 

CP Gopher said:
I don't see how the university or police can be expected to just look the other way when students under 21 are drinking. Lawsuit waiting to happen.
I do think, however, that some type of activity (non alcohol) should be available for under aged students before games.
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Yep obviously never happens anywhere else.
:rolleyes:
They don't ID tailgaters now, why would/should it have to be different for a student setup? It doesn't/shouldn't be university approved. I'm not saying the U should setup even a lot specifically or the kids, just institute a campuswide policy that gameday activities/gatherings are acceptable. Heck bust them if it gets out of hand, but stop bending over backwards to prevent any semblance of a party atmosphere.
Give the rich donors their lots, maybe mow down the grassy area between 37 and the next lot to the east and let kids congregate before games. Students don't need much to MAKE a good time, which is the goal. Just other kids, some drinking games, and any excuse to go somewhere that could be a good time.
 

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