Student Section Attendence: who is ultimately responsible for this problem?

[Dr.Don]

I vote our new norwood...but SOMEONE needs to be accountable and someone NEEDS to listen to the FANS when they take into account all the things that they must take into account.. Some one NEEDS to be responsible that holds a position within the administration.,,,I think.

; 0 )

I have forwarded my resume to AD Norwood Teague.

 

[metrolax]

How many schools stick the student section in the end zone? Good question. I know at A&M, the east side of the stadium is for the students, the west side for the alums, and everywhere else
for everyone else. You sign up for hugely affordable student passes when you register, and you can be sitting on the 20, 30, 40, or even 50 yard lines. MIGHT make a difference in student attendence.

 

[Gopherdrummer]

Gopherprof, your point isn't totally off base. The students would show up in greater numbers if the team won more games, no doubt. That being said, I find your argument off in a couple important ways: First the Gophers have been more mediocre than they have been "suck every single year."....

The portion is bold is true. However, when you speak to any average student at the U about the football team, the response 9/10 times seems to be "they suck" or "we have a football team?" If you ask about what might happen at a game, they typically come back with "they will probably lose."

Overall, the student culture does not embrace the football program through thick and thin as we all do here. Generate enough buzz, and the students have shown up. A lack of on campus student tailgating doesn't help. But you can't deny that while the results were similar to seasons passed, the Brewster years took a lot out of student/fan loyalty and confidence in the program. That foundation can be put back into place with sustained success over time and students will once again feel that going to football games at the U is an essential part of being a Gopher. An effective social media add campaign could also help a lot....

 

[Gopherprof]

All that cutting and pasting and you managed to continue to miss the point. Student attendance was decent at the Metrodome after a tailgate culture was created by the students. Even in 2007 when the team went 1-11 there were decent crowds in the student section. Common sense would say that with a new stadium ON CAMPUS, if everything else being fairly equal, student attendance would go way up in comparison. It has gone down. What is the difference? Success on the field?

Are there actual numbers on this? Because that's anecdotal at best right now. Attendance overall usually wasn't any better at the Metrodome than it is at TCF, so I'm not sure why there would be a disparity in just the students.

 

[Dr.Don]

Wren says this in post #nineteen..." when they take into account all the things that they must take into account.. '' wow, how profound.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

Any comparisons to TCF and Metrodome tailgaiting scenes need to stop.

It wasn't just winning some games that contributed to Metrodome student attendance circa 2003 to 2007 it was the party and the underage drinking. There were DJ's with some big sound systems, and some students conducting a bar out of the back of a parents truck, one guy even had a trailer rigged up as a bar, and some mild success on the football field.
The student tailgating scene in the Washington Ave lots for the most part the MPD looked the other way even though they knew there were a bunch of underage kids getting drinks, and the parking lot operators didn't care as long as they got there money and students picked up there mess. There were student tailgates where students were conducting open bars and selling red solo cups, mixed drinks and cheap beer for a profit. For some reason Maturi decided he didn't want this going on anymore and asked the MPD and Campus PD to crack down on beer containers or students drinking. Like the greek said walk down the street with a beer in a can cooler that is visible and you get nagged or stopped.
In Columbus or Madison people walk around with 12 packs of beer and nobody bothers them. That and the used to let the students sell the tickets which contributed to the uptick in sales.

The students were showing up for the drinking party as much as the football games and I'm not talking about Metrodome beers. Funny thing is they could do the same thing over in St Paul now, conduct student tailgates and as long as they cleaned up there messes nobody would care that much. It's not that different and all you have to do is still get on a bus over to the game. Unless of course they are still doing the Maturi breathalizers at the gates.
There is police presence but they are there for security as much as anything, not overtly looking to bust people. Win a few games and let a few students sling the beer in St Paul and with the cheap tickets and they might show up again. Team has to start being competitive in Big 10 games again. It was as much the belief that the Gophers might actually win and the party during the Mason years as to why student attendance grew.
It's more of winning Big 10 games and actually beating your rivals more than once a decade that will matter.

 

[Schnauzer]

People don't care because the team is bad and it's been bad forever.

Are there actual numbers on this?

 

[RailBaronYarr]

I'd say that's probably a safe bet.

For Iowa State that's actually an improvement, but fair enough. I'd guess that if they are still at 6-7 over the next 4-5 years, any potential enthusiasm from their "improvement" will have died away. It's also probably worth pointing out that we're talking about Ames, IA here, where competition for the entertainment dollar is between Iowa State sports and bingo night at the local retirement community.

My wife's cousin, my friend, and several other ISU alums living here in the Twin Cities corroborate the atmosphere is much better at ISU for students than here. They have tailgate lots set up specifically for students. I'm guessing they are, uh, a little more lax regarding alcohol than we are. Their stadium isn't any nicer than ours, it isn't any closer to the bulk of where students live, and the team hasn't been appreciably better than ours over the last 10 years (save for our few abysmal seasons). They don't play in a bigger/better conference with any more exciting conference or non-conf games (yes, they play Iowa every year, and we've sprinkled in Cal, USC, Air Force, and others in ours).

I would say that the vast number of parking lots surrounding their stadium would be the 'key to success' but Wisconsin and other more urban areas prove that house/lawn parties and bar-gaiting works just as well.

Obviously, you are correct that winning is a huge element. I'd say easily 66-75% of the formula. But the gameday atmosphere, traditions, pre-game options, etc are what makes the down years tolerable and makes the student section fill up on time regardless of weather and opponent. And the U has unquestionably been bad at these factors for quite some time.

 

[gophmeister]

So, are you saying no one is in charge and no one is responsible over there?

That is all that blame is, after all. It holds the person in charge to be accountable for what happens. IF there is no one to blame, that means that there is no one who is accountable.

Often times it seems as though no one IS accountable at the U. That is a real problem. The U needs to name the names of the people who ARE accountable , exactly what they are accountable for and to whom they answer re: their accountability. You are describing a "blameless administration..." Maybe that is comfortable of the administrators, but it is NOT good public policy and it does NOT produce very positive results.

At least that's the way I feel about it. Perhaps you could shed more light on your feelings about having a blameless administration at the University of Minnesota, gophgmeister...

; 0 )

Your agenda in starting this discussion appears to be blaming Norwood Teague, which as I stated really is counter productive and pointless. There was poor student attendance prior to his employment at the university, so it's no surprise there was poor student attendance last fall. So trying to blame someone for something that's not their fault is ridiculous If the trend continues despite improved performance by the team then there's something wrong. Still, you can't force people to go to the games.

 

[Gopherprof]

Are there actual numbers on this?

Yes. Our record and overall attendance figures. See the difference?

 

[gophmeister]

I tailgate in Ski-U-Mah and the atmosphere there is great, but it's a small lot and there are maybe a handful of students who wander over. If they are doing breathalyzers still that's ridiculous. Students go for the party as much as for the game. I just think the team really needs to improve to the point where they are competitive game in game out for attendance to improve. Also, Madison had excellent student attendance before 1993. It had a lot to do with the party before during and after the game. You don't get that here, that's for sure.

 

[RochesterGopher]

Few things,

I took my girlfriend at the time to a game the last year at the Dome. She went to the bathroom and once shegot back and said that there was at least a dozen pieces of duck tape on the bathroom stall walls. I looked at her kind of puzzled than it hit me. Duct taping flasks to thier legs and than putting them in thier purse once they got to the dome. Wonder if that happens as much at TCF? I would assume alot of students doing that. Obviously somebody is trying to have a good time.

Also if we go 4-0 in non-conference like we should it will be a sell out for the game against Iowa. The average minnesota jumps on and off bandwagons like its thier jobs.

 

[imthewalrus]

Wren says this in post #nineteen..." when they take into account all the things that they must take into account.. '' wow, how profound.

Go right ahead and bang your head and then bang you head again doc. "...when they take into account all the things that they must take into account..." is really a pretty darn reasonable thing. Some of the young ones want to have a lot of lots for "safe-haven-from-the-long-arm-of-the-law..." binge drinking by underaged binge drinkers. And some of the law and order people don't want to allow anything outside of the law, and the liability insurers for the U of M want to be satisfied and a lot of people don't really care one way or another...who ever is in charge of Game Day Saturday is going to have to "...take into account all the things that he/she MUST take into account..." you are going to need one POWERFUL dude/dudette who can influence those who make policy at the U of M. To me, that would have to be someone of the rank of prexy or ad. But, make no mistake doc: you NEED to have one accountable high-ranking person who will "take into account all the things that need to be taken into account..." So bang that old head of yours 'til you can't bang it no more. I guess I really don't have an opinion about what you do with your head. To bang your head...or not to bang your head: that is YOUR question.

; 0 )

 

[SMU GOPHS FAN]

No there isn't, and that's the problem.

It's not that students love the Gophers but don't want to make the effort to attend the games. It's that they are entirely apathetic because they assume the Gophers will just suck again like they do almost every single year. It's not cool to give a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about the football team and hasn't been for as long as I've known.QUOTE]

The basketball team hasn't been good in forever in a day either, yet the students show up for those games. So what's the difference?

 

[Gopherprof]

The basketball team hasn't been good in forever in a day either, yet the students show up for those games. So what's the difference?

The basketball team has been exponentially more successful than the football team over the last few decades. Take a look at the number of winning Big Ten seasons in basketball and compare it to football. Glen Mason had two. Clem Haskins had seven. And it's not just those two, compare any basketball coach to any football coach in the last 40 years and you'll see similar results. Basketball hasn't been on fire lately, but it hasn't been the Big Ten doormat that football has been for decades.

 

[mplsbadger]

The students are responsible for the strength of he student section. The athletic department and university are responsible for the removal of barriers to having a great student section.

Barriers can include price, punishment for use of alcohol, excessive policing, lack of availability of pre-game tailgate areas, dead-a$$ fraternity row afraid of its own shadow, etc.

It can't be solely dependent on the quality of the W/L record or the strength of the opponents. Those things are fleeting.

They should put a banner in the facade behind the end one that says "we're here for you - not you for us" and then shrink the student section until it is bursting at the seams with kids willing to live up to it. Grow it back slowly as demand grows

 

[dpodoll68]

The basketball team has been exponentially more successful than the football team over the last few decades.

This is not true. Someone was trying to espouse this line of BS on the basketball board a month or so ago. This is the research I did then:

".500+ Big Ten seasons in basketball, 1970-1999: 11

.500+ Big Ten seasons in football, 1970-1999: 10"

Bringing it up to the present day adds 6 for basketball, and 3 for football. So a total of 17 in basketball, and 13 in football. Two conference titles in basketball, 0 in football. Not "exponentially more successful" by any measure. "Marginally more successful" at best.

Clem Haskins had seven.

Haskins had one winning conference season, and one additional right at .500. Not seven.

 

[Schnauzer]

Basketball hasn't been on fire lately, but it hasn't been the Big Ten doormat that football has been for decades.

I get your whole "the Gophers suck" routine and quite frankly any fan would like to see the team's success improve in the future. It has indeed often been well below expectations for a long period of time. However, you throw out a lot of terms like "suck" and now "Big Ten Doormat" in related to the football team and that is simply not accurate in the big picture. There have been individual years where the team has sucked and been a doormat, but not in the way you suggest. In the 70's, Gopher football had an average finish of 5.4 out of 10 teams. In the 80's it was an average of 6.8 of 10. In the 90's it was 8.4 of 11. For the 00's, it was 7.1 out of 11. That is mediocre and nothing to be proud of, but it is not "doormat" either. I could go back farther into the decades, but of course the average B1G finish would improve, not reflect doormat status if I did that. Given your repeated use of severe terminology, I'd argue you are more a part of the problem than you are the solution to attendance issues. I also noticed you used the term "suck" in relation to the current football squad. Are you predicting a last place finish?

 

[Gopherprof]

This is not true. Someone was trying to espouse this line of BS on the basketball board a month or so ago. This is the research I did then:

".500+ Big Ten seasons in basketball, 1970-1999: 11

.500+ Big Ten seasons in football, 1970-1999: 10"

Bringing it up to the present day adds 6 for basketball, and 3 for football. So a total of 17 in basketball, and 13 in football. Two conference titles in basketball, 0 in football Not "exponentially more successful" by any measure. "Marginally more successful" at best.

Those numbers are comically skewed. Of the 10 ".500+ seasons", you're including 5 by Cal Stoll, 4 of which were exactly 4-4. Because who can't forget that 1976 Cal Stoll team?

Gutekunst was 5-3 twice ('86 and '90). Mason was 5-3 twice ('99 and '03). You have to go back another 14 years ('73) to find another winning Big Ten season. That's 5 in 43 years. You're throwing in a bunch of 4-4 seasons just to make the numbers look even comparable.

By comparison, the Gophers basketball team has had 14 winning Big Ten seasons in that 43 year span. 14 > 5.

Haskins had one winning conference season, and one additional right at .500. Not seven.

That's including the tourney. But either way you're wrong.

 

[CP Gopher]

I go to every home game, have partaken in pregame festivities at every type of venue within walking distance of the stadium, and have never NOT been able to find a great party and atmosphere.
If the students (who, incidentally, have to be 21 to drink) can't find this, then the hell with them. The area around our stadium offers countless options for pregame fun.
Not sure what exactly people want the university to do beyond this.
They can't provide beer options for a bunch of underaged students.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

I don't think anyone is encouraging the U to condone or sanction binge drinking.

My comentary was more along the lines of this, "It's more of a winning Big 10 games and actually beating your rivals more than once a decade that will matter." That and the belief the Gophers could win, we used to have that under Mason(even if some consider that mediocre), it was lost during the Brewster years, completely lost that last season. This will take some upsets and unexpected winning to repair the reputation.
It's pretty humorous that you can go downtown and see Vikings fans behaving the way that they do on a lot of college campuses and it is similar to the behaviour I described in my earlier post. Look out U of M PD when that horde arrives on campus.
In Columbus or Iowa, Nebraska people have open containers (which is illeagal) and nobody seems to care. I don't think that would ever happen here and so be it.

Until this happens winning Big10 games consistently, you could have Mardi Gras going on and the students would not necessarily show up if the football was as bad as it was during the last couple of Brewster seasons and first under Kill. As CP gopher stated if students wanted to find a party like they did downtown during the last few Metrodome years, in the tailgate lots they
would be able to do so whether it be St Paul or Minneapolis around the stadium. If your looking for that type of party you can find it or even create it. I don't think this is an excuse for the lag in student attendance, it has been more the football was boring and bad for a whole group of underclassmen from 2008 to 2012. This is where the disconnect lays, lousy Big 10 and non-conference football and losing. If students wanted to re-create the Metrodome partying day's they could, so far they seem to be to dis-interested in doing so. I don't have any advice for Norwood Teague it has been a long time since football has been a priority for the students, not sure how you change that when you compete directly with the Vikings for that same type of atmosphere.

 

[imthewalrus]

I tailgate in Ski-U-Mah and the atmosphere there is great, but it's a small lot and there are maybe a handful of students who wander over. If they are doing breathalyzers still that's ridiculous. Students go for the party as much as for the game. I just think the team really needs to improve to the point where they are competitive game in game out for attendance to improve. Also, Madison had excellent student attendance before 1993. It had a lot to do with the party before during and after the game. You don't get that here, that's for sure.

So, gophmeister, are you saying that Coach Kill is ultimately responsible for improving the student section? Improved play would have to help, I am sure...

; 0 )

 

[imthewalrus]

The basketball team has been exponentially more successful than the football team over the last few decades. Take a look at the number of winning Big Ten seasons in basketball and compare it to football. Glen Mason had two. Clem Haskins had seven. And it's not just those two, compare any basketball coach to any football coach in the last 40 years and you'll see similar results. Basketball hasn't been on fire lately, but it hasn't been the Big Ten doormat that football has been for decades.

Unfortunately, the hoopsters keep getting busted by the NCAA...that crap has GOT to stop...

; 0 )

 

[SonOfTheVarsity]

I have offered to sit on a volunteer Marketing Committee, but none have taken me up on it. They need to hear from the fans through an ad hoc committee, but so far, to no avail.

I have worked with MANY students and this is what I've seen - the U of M does a really nice job during Freshman Orientation to get students excited about the Game Day experience. They get their Gopher paraphanalia, tickets, and schedule and bring in a lot of excitement. What they find in the older students: apathy and a "who cares" attitude. Even though Freshman are on their own and making their own decisions, they take the cue of the upper classmen that the U of M college football game experience isn't "cool"and is boring (we all know that is not the case!!). But impressionable freshman are just that....impressionable. Once they jump off the band-wagon, you lose them for the next 3 1/2 years. They won't come back because the initial experience didn't equal the hype.

Again....Marketing Department....TAKE NOTE: Find a way to deliver the product that was promised at Freshman Orientation and you've got them forever.

Here's what I would do - cater to the Freshman through a event called the Freshman Experience. Give our Freshman an exclusive experience that includes a meet and greet with Kill and the Players - allow the Freshman to walk in to the entrance of the stadium with the players and coaches as part of the victory walk for the first game or two. It would be a memorable experience and I can guarantee, the excitement would take care of itself. Have a stand inside the stadium (for Freshman only) where they get free food and other free stuff. The trick is to deliver more than what was promised and to personalize it.

Each year, if successful, they could expand the "experience" to student season ticket holders.

Hopefully this makes some sense - I'm typing this on work break.

So, you're arguing that the U does a solid job getting freshmen interested, but a lousy job keeping upperclassmen interested. And your solution is to do more to attract freshmen, the group that's already showing up? Doesn't add up to me.

And, realistically, the freshmen don't show up in droves to the first few games because they're bursting with Gopher football pride. It's because they have a free ticket and don't know what else to do. Once they don't get that free ticket, they're not gonna show. You could attribute it to emulating the apathy of upperclassmen, but the ones who show up with free tickets and are never seen again were apathetic to begin with. It's not that they care about the team, but don't show up because it's not "cool." It's that they never cared about the team and don't show up because it's no longer free.

The problem with student attendance is, in it's most basic form, a combination of mediocre football and a horrible game day experience. Nothing we can do about the mediocre football except wait for the team to get better. As far as game day experience, Ole generally has great ideas.

I will say, I don't think involving the Greeks is really going to galvanize additional student section turnout outside of the Greek community, though. No offense to the Greeks on here, but a lot of the student body doesn't particularly like the Greek community, and won't go to Frat Row for any reason. Compared to other schools, the Greek community is a very small part of student life at the U and has little impact on the social life on campus. Getting the Greeks more involved ain't gonna do much, in my eyes.

I think the marketing department also treats students like children. Stop with handing out temporary tattoos and with the face painting booths and all that crap. It's college football, not an elementary school Halloween party. Disband the sportsmanship initiatives and 150-member Rooter Club that takes up prime seats and just goes through the motions of approved cheers.

Instead, figure out a way to actually market tickets and the experience to 18-22 year olds. A good place to start? How about gradient ticket pricing? If you buy your tickets the first 2 days they're on sale: $40. The rest of first week: $50. Next 2 weeks: $65. Next month: $85. After that: $105. And NO MORE FREE TICKETS. That would get a lot of students buying early; instead of waiting to see how many of their friends are going to go and eventually not buying tickets, more kids would just buy tickets at the cheaper price. The more kids that buy early, the more other students would jump on board later. The more kids with tickets, the better the game day atmosphere.

As far as missed revenue, the marketing department routinely gives away thousands of tickets for free or for $5 or $10. You could have gone to every game last season for ~$50, buying every game from the ticket office. I missed two home games and spent, I think, $35 on tickets, getting all my tickets from the ticket office.

 

[MorningCalmBadger]

Do a Minnesota version of this. You can have a great atmosphere anywhere if the ingredients are there. Even at Iowa State like someone mentioned or Wisconsin in the 70s and 80s. Both awesome game day atmospheres with crappy teams and rowdy student sections. Lots of tail gates, beer gartens, pep rallies, the band and loosen the beer laws on Game Day Saturday. See you in November this year!

 

[highwayman]

The basketball team has been exponentially more successful than the football team over the last few decades.

I think the stats show that neither program should use the word "exponential". That's nearly laughable. Except for a few seasons here or there--of which many of the basketball seasons don't count--it's been pretty slim pickings.

If anything, the basketball program has been a magnet for off-the court trouble which--for me anyway--negates any "additional success" they may have had.

 

[Ole]

Well this thread raised the dead and beaten horse I didn't want to rehash, but whatever, it's the offseason.

End and bottom line of all bottom lines:
It seems that many here are either forgetting what it was like to be a college kid, or want to think better of college kids.

It is amazing to no end what an 18-22 year old will do for a party, or booze.
They absolutely would show up even if the team was horrible, as long as the party was fun.
They absolutely will avoid situations that are lame, or interfere with their ability to party and booze freely.
It's just that simple. Sorry if you think better of college kids, they don't care what you think though, they're too busy being young and having fun.

When the choice is drinking games off campus in a garage, having the game on in the background with other friends safe from the police, or facepainting and getting breathalyzed to go watch a 6-6 football team they will take the garage EVERY TIME.

When the choice is drinking games near the stadium, with 1000's of other kids, walking up to the stadium and goofing around in a student section for a few hours before heading back to their garage to party, or staying home in their garage, they'll go to the game.

The U doesn't need to condone underage drinking. They simply need to be like EVERY other college campus with a thriving gameday atmosphere. That means loosening the grip a bit on the kids for one day, and working to help give the kids a place to gather before and after games.

 

[dpodoll68]

But either way you're wrong.

No, I'm not. Haskins had one winning conference season, 11-7 in 1989-90.

By comparison, the Gophers basketball team has had 14 winning Big Ten seasons in that 43 year span. 14 > 5.

I'm not sure where you're getting your made-up data, but here are the actual figures:

Basketball: 9
Football: 5

If you extend just a few years further back, to 1967 when the football team won its last conference championship, the totals are 9 for basketball and 7 for football. Yes, "exponentially" more successful.

 

[mplsbadger]

When the choice is drinking games off campus in a garage, having the game on in the background with other friends safe from the police, or facepainting and getting breathalyzed to go watch a 6-6 football team they will take the garage EVERY TIME.

On point.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Do a Minnesota version of this. You can have a great atmosphere anywhere if the ingredients are there. Even at Iowa State like someone mentioned or Wisconsin in the 70s and 80s. Both awesome game day atmospheres with crappy teams and rowdy student sections. Lots of tail gates, beer gartens, pep rallies, the band and loosen the beer laws on Game Day Saturday. See you in November this year!

Really confused what you're suggesting by "version of this." Are you saying Minnesota should make a promo video? This one is a little long, but I'm confused what elements of the video are unique to Wisconsin vs Minnesota. The video spent a lot of time showing off the facilities, team practice or weightlifting, and ESPN College Gameday being set up (something we can't say we've had and therefore cannot show). Other things that we have/do that are specifically highlighted in the video:

- Band practice on the field in the AM of gameday
- Team walk-through fans (Victory Walk)
- Plaza show with the band playing tunes and school songs near the stadium
- Tailgating in lots and people milling about the streets
- People grilling brats
- Marching band having a pregame show (run cadence on to the field, pregame, and halftime shows all exist here, too)
- Cheerleaders
- Statues/sculptures on campus and around our stadium
...I could go on

Your video was a little long to be a fire-up type video, someone would have to dedicate over 5 minutes of their time to it, but I wonder if MN has something along the lines of it....


Yeah, our marketing department should really get on that one.

I think the marketing dept is trying to do the best with that they're allowed. Without putting pieces in place to allow a real party atmosphere around the stadium for students (and to be honest, regular joe fans without crazy donation money) it's difficult to get that critical mass of people who will go just to go because it's fun and you can drink and be stupid. When you hit that tipping point, all of a sudden there are more people wanting to go rather than poo-pooing it, and everyone will go regardless of if they're big football or UMN fans (are people in Wisconsin inherently, genetically more likely to be football fans? What about all those kids from MN that go to UW? Vice versa?) And hey, they may just become some if we win or the atmosphere is just so fun.